Hypothetical: Should Bran & Co have stayed at Winterfell after the sack?

[trazayn]

I'm re-reading ASOS and I'm wondering if Bran and company could have stayed at Winterfell after they emerged from the crypts to find the castle sacked. There was no one there but corpses. Do you think they could have stayed and somehow held the castle? Of course we learned with Theon you can't hold it with a tiny garrison, but I'm wondering if they could have stayed on the down low.  Maybe figured out a covert way to send out ravens or something to alert the Stark bannerman to their presence at Winterfell. In retrospect it seems like a much safer option than venturing beyond the wall. It doesn't even occur to them to stay. 

Of course one of the likely outcomes of staying would probably be death and/or capture by the Bolton's and treacherous Stark bannermen. 

Thoughts?

[Chris Mormont]

No, they couldn't stay in Winterfell. Someone would eventually come and assess the damage, and Bran and company could be in a worse situation.  Luwin told them to flee, and to split up, but I do disagree with Bran going beyond the wall.  However that is where George wanted him to go.

They should have went to Castle Black, hoping Jon would be there.  At least he could vouch for their identity and hide them.  If they showed up on anyone else's doorstep, there's no way they would know for sure they would be believed.

[McGuv19]

If they managed to stay and hide in the crypts until After the Feast they could get into the wedding feast via Manderly or one of the other northern lords still loyal to the Starks and denounce the Boltons as traitors and ‘Arya’ as a fake. But I think it would be too dangerous  for them to stay that long anyway.

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, trazayn said:

I'm re-reading ASOS and I'm wondering if Bran and company could have stayed at Winterfell after they emerged from the crypts to find the castle sacked. There was no one there but corpses. Do you think they could have stayed and somehow held the castle? Of course we learned with Theon you can't hold it with a tiny garrison, but I'm wondering if they could have stayed on the down low.  Maybe figured out a covert way to send out ravens or something to alert the Stark bannerman to their presence at Winterfell. In retrospect it seems like a much safer option than venturing beyond the wall. It doesn't even occur to them to stay. 

Of course one of the likely outcomes of staying would probably be death and/or capture by the Bolton's and treacherous Stark bannermen. 

Thoughts?

 

Are we talking about in the absence of Jojen's dreams telling them to go north of the Wall? Bran is convinced that if he finds the 3EC he will walk again, so I don't see why he would want to remain a cripple in a burned out castle for the rest of his life when there is a chance that he could become whole again.

And honestly, what is left for him at Winterfell? Everyone is dead, the only warm place to sleep is the crypts. The kingdom is at war, and winter is coming. The same holds true for Castle Black. He would just linger there, broken, for the rest of his life.

North of the Wall was his only viable option.

[trazayn]

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

 

Are we talking about in the absence of Jojen's dreams telling them to go north of the Wall? Bran is convinced that if he finds the 3EC he will walk again, so I don't see why he would want to remain a cripple in a burned out castle for the rest of his life when there is a chance that he could become whole again.

And honestly, what is left for him at Winterfell? Everyone is dead, the only warm place to sleep is the crypts. The kingdom is at war, and winter is coming. The same holds true for Castle Black. He would just linger there, broken, for the rest of his life.

North of the Wall was his only viable option.

I agree on most points. I don't really think it would have been a viable option though I do find it peculiar that it never crosses the minds of the characters. 

At the same time, in this re-read, I'm struck by how many (almost all) of the POV characters are children or young adults who make decisions that are less than sure-footed because of their youth. I mean - what adult would use dreams (even greendreams) as a pretence to drag a paraplegic boy across the wild north? 

I was reading a Dany chapter earlier and she's just sitting there day-dreaming while Jorah is telling her to be more careful about trusting random strangers and she's all - 'la de da I'm the mother of dragons psssha'

Clearly that's the issue with the realm - everyone's a kid!

[John Suburbs]

18 hours ago, trazayn said:

I agree on most points. I don't really think it would have been a viable option though I do find it peculiar that it never crosses the minds of the characters. 

At the same time, in this re-read, I'm struck by how many (almost all) of the POV characters are children or young adults who make decisions that are less than sure-footed because of their youth. I mean - what adult would use dreams (even greendreams) as a pretence to drag a paraplegic boy across the wild north? 

I was reading a Dany chapter earlier and she's just sitting there day-dreaming while Jorah is telling her to be more careful about trusting random strangers and she's all - 'la de da I'm the mother of dragons psssha'

Clearly that's the issue with the realm - everyone's a kid!

In our own feudal period, if you made it to 40 you were considered old. But even the adults in this tale don't always act rationally, Ned, Cat, Robert, Jaime, Cersei . . . 

Jojen was right about the sea coming to Winterfell, and about the grey meat served to the Freys. So when Jojen tells Bran of his dream of a chained, winged-wolf trying to be freed by a 3EC who lives north of the wall, and Bran himself is dreaming of a 3EC, that's a pretty powerful clue that his destiny lies that way, not at Winterfell or Castle Black.

[James Steller]

On a side note, I suddenly wonder why, outside of George’s writing choices, would Osha think to take Rickon all the way to Skagos from Winterfell. How did she manage to do that? How did she keep Rickon and Shaggydog under control the entire journey? Who took them to the island? And how did they not notice Wex following them the whole time?

Admittedly, I’m curious as hell to see Skagos, but Osha could have taken Rickon to Wyman Manderly and he could have loudly proclaimed that Robb still had an heir to the North. And Manderly has more heavy horse than anyone in the North, including the Boltons. So even if Robb is slain and the Boltons march on White Harbour, they’d never win that conflict so long as a Stark boy lived.

[The Commentator]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:25 PM, trazayn said:

I'm re-reading ASOS and I'm wondering if Bran and company could have stayed at Winterfell after they emerged from the crypts to find the castle sacked. There was no one there but corpses. Do you think they could have stayed and somehow held the castle? Of course we learned with Theon you can't hold it with a tiny garrison, but I'm wondering if they could have stayed on the down low.  Maybe figured out a covert way to send out ravens or something to alert the Stark bannerman to their presence at Winterfell. In retrospect it seems like a much safer option than venturing beyond the wall. It doesn't even occur to them to stay. 

Of course one of the likely outcomes of staying would probably be death and/or capture by the Bolton's and treacherous Stark bannermen. 

Thoughts?

They could but Bran wanted to meet the raven because he wants to walk again.  False hope kept them going.

On 8/29/2019 at 2:08 PM, McGuv19 said:

If they managed to stay and hide in the crypts until After the Feast they could get into the wedding feast via Manderly or one of the other northern lords still loyal to the Starks and denounce the Boltons as traitors and ‘Arya’ as a fake. But I think it would be too dangerous  for them to stay that long anyway.

They can do all the denouncing they want but Roose Bolton is legally their lord.  Nothing would have changed.  

[nyser1]

My initial thoughts were sure. However, thinking about it in greater depth: a wildling, two young boys, and a stableboy who does not appear to be able to say anything other than Hodor.

 

What knowledge would they have of what is going on? To the best of their knowledge, the Ironborn are all over. After all, if they took Winterfell, why not other areas (they know at least Torrhen's Square and Deepwood Motte have been attacked). Furthermore, now that there is some idea of betrayal within the Northern ranks, who can they trust? They would never go to the Dreadfort, and it is unlikely that they would head in the direction of the Iron Islands (not to mention Ryswell and Dustin being no friends of Stark). Going South seems like a bad idea, so cross out White Harbor.

 

Castle Cerwyn is too close to Winterfell. I would suspect it being either held by hostile forces or complicit if I were them. My options would be the Last Hearth or the Karhold (and what a surprise might await them if they knew what has been happening with that family and the Starks).

 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:25 AM, trazayn said:

Thoughts?

no

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

On 8/30/2019 at 6:02 PM, James Steller said:

On a side note, I suddenly wonder why, outside of George’s writing choices, would Osha think to take Rickon all the way to Skagos from Winterfell. How did she manage to do that? How did she keep Rickon and Shaggydog under control the entire journey? Who took them to the island? And how did they not notice Wex following them the whole time?

Admittedly, I’m curious as hell to see Skagos, but Osha could have taken Rickon to Wyman Manderly and he could have loudly proclaimed that Robb still had an heir to the North. And Manderly has more heavy horse than anyone in the North, including the Boltons. So even if Robb is slain and the Boltons march on White Harbour, they’d never win that conflict so long as a Stark boy lived.

I think Osha's original plan was to take Rickon to Manderly, but something changed, we don't know what.

Skagos is an odd choice, but tbf, if you wanted somewhere remote where no-one's likely to come looking, it'd be pretty high on the list. That being said, I think there was more to that decision that we haven't been made privy to yet. 

[U. B. Cool]

Go or stay doesn't make much of a difference to me.  Bran should accept the role of the greenseer and forget about the Starks.  He has more important things to do.  But the pattern of the story has been Stark has a duty, Stark duty conflict with family interests, and Stark abandons duty for family.  

[rotting sea cow]

On 8/29/2019 at 7:25 PM, trazayn said:

I'm re-reading ASOS and I'm wondering if Bran and company could have stayed at Winterfell after they emerged from the crypts to find the castle sacked. There was no one there but corpses. Do you think they could have stayed and somehow held the castle? Of course we learned with Theon you can't hold it with a tiny garrison, but I'm wondering if they could have stayed on the down low.  Maybe figured out a covert way to send out ravens or something to alert the Stark bannerman to their presence at Winterfell. In retrospect it seems like a much safer option than venturing beyond the wall. It doesn't even occur to them to stay. 

Of course one of the likely outcomes of staying would probably be death and/or capture by the Bolton's and treacherous Stark bannermen. 

Thoughts?

No. Besides the fact that if Bran doesn't reach the last greenseer we are all doomed. Staying at Winterfell had a lot of dangers:

1.- Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon are alive and his men were searching the Kingsroad for them and offering gold and silver for a word about their whereabouts.

2.- Without someone like Maester Ludwin, they cannot know for certain who they can trust after Ramsay defeated the loyalists forces.

3.- Sometime after the burning of Winterfell, Asha and some ironborn visited Winterfell looking for Theon. If they were discovered they would be taken by Asha.

4.- Squatters also occupied the ruins of Winterfell afterwards.

Etc.

Not to mention, they still need to find food and shelter among the ruins.

[Pontius Pilate]

They could hide out in the crypts for an indefinite period of time.   They can live on RATatouille stew for as long as they wish because the crypts have a large rodent colony.