UK Politics: The Malice in the Chalice held by the Pfeffel with the Piffle is the Brexit that is true.

[Gaston de Foix]

Johnson = Brexit engineer and overall muppet/liar. 

May = terrible politician and failed to deliver Brexit. 

Cameron = gambled on Brexit and lost. 

Brown = terrible politician and financial crisis. 

Blair = Iraq war

Bring back John Major! 

 

[Philokles]

6 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Look at what's risen from its grave. The Withdrawal Agreement. Kinnock'S amendment apparently passed.

Seemingly because the government whips forgot or decided not to challenge it, allowing it to go through without a vote. WTAF.

[Werthead]

49 minutes ago, Philokles said:

Seemingly because the government whips forgot or decided not to challenge it, allowing it to go through without a vote. WTAF.

The tellers weren't there to record it, which is a violation of normal procedure. I'm assuming they'll have to run it again.

[Werthead]

Johnson is so far out of his depth and beyond his ability that it is quite embarrassing. Corbyn impatiently tearing strips off him and essentially saying he sucks at the ballot box compared to May (no shots of May to see what she makes of that quasi-compliment though), who was at least far better prepared, even if she ended up saying nothing of substance.

Ian Duncan Smith making a prat of himself as usual as well and then getting the piss ripped out of him by Jess Phillips.

Good grief, the Conservative Party front bench is so bereft of credible talent that it is painful to watch.

[Jen'ari]

5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Johnson is so far out of his depth and beyond his ability that it is quite embarrassing. Corbyn impatiently tearing strips off him and essentially saying he sucks at the ballot box compared to May (no shots of May to see what she makes of that quasi-compliment though), who was at least far better prepared (even if she ended up saying nothing of substance.

Iain Duncan Smith making a prat of himself as usual as well and then getting the piss ripped out of him by Jess Phillips.

Good grief, the Conservative Party front bench is so bereft of credible talent that it is painful to watch.

I agree with you, the bad thing is the Labour front bench is pretty terrible too, Corbyn,McDonnell and Dianne Abbot, Kier Starmer seems pretty sensible to be fair to him though.

[williamjm]

23 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The tellers weren't there to record it, which is a violation of normal procedure. I'm assuming they'll have to run it again.

They've approved the overall bill in the Commons so I'm guessing it's too late. BBC News are suggesting that it's more of a symbolic amendment that doesn't make much practical difference to what the bill does.

If the Government did let the amendment go through deliberately then either they have some cunning plan nobody else can see or they've just handed a victory to a bunch of Labour MPs in Leave seats who will be delighted that they can show their constituents how they've been trying to get a Brexit agreement passed.

[Which Tyler]

I've been out for a few hours (walking rugby).

WTF has happened with the Kinnock amendment, and what are the repercussions?

[Werthead]

The government failed to get the two-thirds majority to call an election, unsurprisingly.

[Which Tyler]

298 : 56
Does that count as BJ's first vote win? Even though the motion is defeated? Of course, an abstention is literally as good as a may vote, so they might as well head home for a nightcap, but still...

 

I'm confused.

 

Must admit, I was expecting BJ to try his "simple motion election" gambit there.
Which I don't understand how not could work as surely the FTPA foresaw that possibility and negated it.
Surely...
Remind me, how competent was Cameron again?

[Derfel Cadarn]

Hopefully the red-faced gammon extremists will finally learn that if you vote for a clown, you get a fucking circus.

To bear in mind should they be offered Farage as Brexit-Christ 3.0

[Ordos]

I've been tuning in now and then for the past few hours. So...

The opposition manages to pass legislation forcing Johnson and tying his hands to delay Brexit yet again to January 31st. There will be no election before October 31st as the opposition know the Conservatives will probably win and push through a no-deal Brexit or an extremely unlikely 11th hour deal.

Now Parliament will be suspended, and Johnson will be Prime Minister for a few more weeks until after October 31st. Then the Opposition will push an election and the Conservative Party will be reduced to a rump with the Brexit party making a triumphant entry into parliament with dozens of seats.

Negotiations will then begin and then an anti Brexit or pro Brexit coalition will be formed and the game will start all over again!

[Ordos]

But not before the SNP pushes for another independence referendum and the IRA pick up their guns again.

[polishgenius]

Is there any particular reason you're posting Brexit fanfiction in this thread?

[polishgenius]

2 minutes ago, Leap said:

He's just been elected Prime Minister

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I feel like the past couple of days has blown out of the water the idea that Johnson is secretly a super smart guy just pretending to be a buffoon. Not to say that he isn't more intelligent than he often appears, but at best he is an average guy with some political savvy and the ability to lie relentlessly. And he is now way out of his depth, and quite frankly facing a lot of people just as determined, and a fair bit smarter than him.

Worst part is, despite everything I think there is a good chance he ends up on top in the end because of the electorate, I don't see how Parliament can hold off an election for a long period of time, and with the opposition fractured and not overly popular, and Brexiteers rallying around Boris, he may end up in a position to win a majority with a far more radical Conservative party.

[The Anti-Targ]

10 hours ago, Werthead said:

That would be a problem. No Deal vs Remain, a Deal vs Remain (and we stay in the EU in the meantime) or a 3 or even 4-way split option all have massive problems.

No Deal vs. Remain is won by Remain almost immediately. Deal vs Remain could go either way depending on the deal, but it might take years to negotiate a deal, and splitting the vote will immediately have people crying foul: Deal vs No Deal vs Remain splits the Brexit vote so Remain wins, and I can't see two Remain votes that make sense (Remain on current terms or Remain & Reform?).

The most logical thing to do at this juncture would be to say that a Deal seems unlikely, so therefore it'll be No Deal vs Remain. And Remain wins with something north of a 60 majority. But then you have leave-with-a-deal fans bitching for the next infinity years about it.

 

I don't think even Johnson would do that, although you never know.

I made this comment ages ago but everyone was like NOOOO! I think it's viable for a party to have a position that the original leave result for the referendum stands, but that Art 50 is revoked and, with the EU realising forcing Art 50 before negotiations could start was a mistake, fresh negotiations on a leave deal are begun without the no-deal sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head. A deal is agreed, at some future time, is voted through parliament, and then Art 50 is triggered, giving everyone 2 years to put things in place for the leave date to be as smooth a transition as possible.

The majority of the country won't be happy with that, because remainers and no-deal Brexiteers collectively vastly outnumber soft leavers. But it's the way to honour the first referendum, which is almost like a "support the troops" reflex. Despite the false pretenses and lies that got the leave vote across the line originally, it's still not done in polite circles to disrespect the vote.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Don’t get me wrong I think his calling of the referendum was an incredibly stupid move, one he put in the Tory manifesto not expecting to win a majority and having to drop.

The preceding years from 2010-2015/6 though he wasn’t a terrible PM overall, he did a better job than May over his tenure (except for the referendum) and while he royally fucked up there he also passed the law that let me marry my wife so perhaps I do cut him too much slack.

I can understand that, but I would just say that at this point in time if you still oppose same sex marriage, you're most likely an irredeemable jacka**.

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

 (no shots of May to see what she makes of that quasi-compliment though),

Cultural question. Is it typical for PMs to resign and still stay in parliament? I had just assumed she resigned completely, but that isn't the case.

Also, for the life of me, I will never be able to wrap my head around how May got the gig considering she didn't support Brexit. Did literally no one other than your clown want to be PM?

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Is there any particular reason you're posting Brexit fanfiction in this thread?

Venture not into the U.S. politics thread. The Trump fanfic can go through the roof. I'm still laughing to this day at that bizarre screed Chaircat posted about how Trump is some necessary evil required to rejigger the global order.

[The Anti-Targ]

4 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You'd have a bunch of foolish opposition leaders. You want to wait a bit with the election, so that the new car smell has worn off. Wear down Johnson and his gang of charlatans and show 'em up a bit longer. A damaged Johnson that had to walk back on his October 31st exit date is a much election target, than one that can still waffle on about the great talks and do or die Brexit on Halloween. Him and Cummings the uncunning want to goad Corbyn and Labour into an early election.

I would say Johnson's bluster over being hamstrung in negotiations is really setting things up for getting an extension "Because I was denied one of my most potent negotiation tools (no deal) and so I need more time to be able to arrive at the deal I would certainly have arranged before 31 Oct if I was left to get on with my job."

That doesn't satisfy hard Brexiters, but if this Bill becomes law then he can't legally deliver no deal on 31 Oct anyway. Hard Brexiters will actually want an extension and a GE so that they can get a proper leave majority in Parliament and repeal that anti no-deal law. Of course it seems pretty unlikely that there will be a no-deal majority in parliament any time soon. You might get a majority of leave supporters (also somewhat unlikely I think) but not a majority of no deal supporters.

[williamjm]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Cultural question. Is it typical for PMs to resign and still stay in parliament?

Often they drift away shortly afterwards (see Cameron, Blair, Brown) but others hang around for decades like Edward Heath. I'm not sure if May has said what she intends but I wouldn't too surprised if she stood down at the next election.

Also, for the life of me, I will never be able to wrap my head around how May got the gig considering she didn't support Brexit. Did literally no one other than your clown want to be PM?

That leadership election was an early indication of the Brexit supporting Tories inability to organise anything. I think there were about half a dozen other candidates but they all self-destructed. Boris dropped out after his campaign manager decided to run against him (it's hard to believe now but at the time Boris was seen as insufficiently committed to Brexit). The Brexit supporters somehow decided Andrea Leadsom was the best candidate to face May in the last round, before she gave an interview stating that May wouldn't be a good Prime Minister because she wasn't a mother which was widely criticised and then dropped out shortly afterwards.

Even after everything that went wrong during her premiership May is still the best candidate out of that field, which says a lot about the rest of them.

[ants]

8 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Curious, where did you read that? I've now read the article two times over again, and I still can't see it.

I think I interpreted his “I agree “ below as meaning he did. 

This position reasonably asserts that Brexit is not ‘just the economy, stupid’, but also a governance, indeed a constitutional, issue.

I agree. And patently, so do lots of people who voted primarily on non-economic grounds. And perfectly reasonably so.