UK Politics: The Malice in the Chalice held by the Pfeffel with the Piffle is the Brexit that is true.

[williamjm]

I've just seen the video of part of Boris' bizarre press conference, which is almost Trump-like in its incoherence.

 

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, williamjm said:

I've just seen the video of part of Boris' bizarre press conference, which is almost Trump-like in its incoherence.

 

 

I wonder how many Brits will notice that he initially went to do the American version.

[Mentat]

15 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

The big tactical issue for the Remainers now is whether to delay the oncoming election beyond October 31, holding it in November or December after Boris has been forced to apply for an extension, thus breaking his do or die pledge. The reasons for delay are, firstly, to ensure Boris can’t take advantage of incumbency in the event of another hung Parliament to let the country fall out in October 31 and secondly to move the election further away from the honeymoon period and make Boris break his pledge in the hope this will send Leavers running to Nigel Farage.

The reason to allow the election to take place in October is that it looks less like running away from the electorate, which is not really a good look. I think the sensible course is to delay but I’m dubious it will make that much difference to the result of the election.

See, if I was a remainer I'd want to have the GE before October 31st. At that point it's become perfectly obvious that there are no alternative arrangements and no possibility of a deal being put in place. The Conservatives would effectively be running on a pure No Deal Brexit platform. Of course, if they win the GE they might well be able to take back the request for an extension or do something else that ensures Brexit on the 31/10... but as much as I hate the idea of Brexit, the UK is a democracy, and at that point I think it's fair enough. The turkeys have voted for Christmas and then doubled down. Let them have their day.

An election post-October with an extension may make some of Boris' foibles more apparent, but Jeremy Corbyn has also been known to put rope to good use when he's given some, and it basically allows the Conservatives to run a campaign based on going back to Brussels and forcing them to accept a New Better Deal which Boris Johnson will force down Brussels throat, because he's not afraid of No Deal, and that means Brussels will ultimately cave to whatever his demands happen to be. Of course this is utter hogwash, but since Labour also secretly hopes to go back to Brussels and get a New Better Deal from Brussels which the HoC and The People will overwhelmingly uphold when put to them, they won't contest it too much. I think this muddies the waters enough to give the Conservatives an electoral advantage they wouldn't otherwise have.

[karaddin]

Yeah, what's really needed is people standing up and actually asserting what is obvious - there does not exist a potential deal which is simultaneously acceptable to the British people that are in charge of the movement to leave the EU while also being acceptable to the EU. Any talk of a deal absent a radical change in mindset is a load of bullshit. I guess its possible a Labor government with a majority could pass...essentially May's deal. But they spent a bunch of time tearing that down as well.

Any thought of another referendum to result in a remain outcome needs to be tying that fact around the leave campaigns neck. A vote for leave would be a vote for no deal.

The flip side of that of course is that if the leave campaign won under those circumstances its time to take the poison and suffer the consequences - if the population votes for no deal then it needs to be delivered.

[A wilding]

9 hours ago, Zorral said:

There are so many ways for the well-positioned, well-informed and corrupt to profit from the dissolution of a state and empire.  Any war profiteer will tell us that it is much easier and quicker to make profit out of destruction than out of production. 

Indeed, and Rees Mogg's own father wrote a book saying that such times of collapse and disaster are the best times to make money, with advice on how to do so. (The title is The Sovereign Individual.)

[Alarich II]

BoJos main narrative and I would guess the main thrust of his electoral campaigne would be "the people vs. parliament", a treacherous parliament has betrayed the people, and he - champion of the people - must have enough power to beat those traitors into submission, deliver the will of the people and purge the Tories and Parliament of traitors.

The damage to democracy and political culture will probably huge and there is no probably no way to avoid that. The onslaught against institutions and political culture throughout the western world are coming from within and we are helpless against those insidious attacks.

[Mindwalker]

Nice move by JoJo. However... “In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest.”  Wait, should a member of the government (or an MP) even have to wonder where his loyalties lie for weeks? "Hmmm... this is difficult... I was elected by the British people to serve their interests. But family loyalty first, right? What a conundrum!" It's not Game of Thrones, you know.

 

ETA: Boris Johnson's prorogation of parliament is lawful, high court rules

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/boris-johnson-prorogation-of-parliament-is-lawful-high-court-rules

[Werthead]

12 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Can they really be that evil? Not the selling off of the NHS, that's bad but can theoretically be based in some notion that healthcare works better for everyone in a private free market system and so not evil. But the manufacturing of a catastrophe that does cost lives, or at best serious ill health, to achieve that end? That's just evil.

If you think that is beyond the capabilities of, at the very least, the hard right of the Conservative Party, I'm afraid you really have not been paying attention. This is the party which for the past nine years has been slashing social security, mental health, general healthcare and social care budgets to the extent that thousands of people have died as a direct result of their policies, through neglect, delays to treatment or suicide caused by stress, and they have done absolutely nothing to stop it, and indeed have tried to blame it on "foreigners."

Although the utter destruction of the Conservative Party would be a net positive for the future of our country, the negative is that the removal of the moderate and sane Tories from the party will cause the rump to swerve further and harder to the right. We've already seen reports of Cummings suggesting that the party weaponise various social issues as part of a new election campaign, which given that there's quite a few LGBTQ Conservative supporters seems unwise, but is also straight out of the Trump/Bannon playbook.

[Fragile Bird]

On a completely different topic, a rumor being fed by UK newspapers is being used as a slur and an attack against PM Trudeau in Canada. There’s an election here in October.

Apparently you guys bizarrely believe child criminal-murderer Jon Venables, upon his release from prison, can be ‘sent’ to Canada. Or Australia. Or NZ. The Conservatives here have picked up the story, basically saying ‘not only does Trudeau accept terrorist Syrian refugees, he’s gonna take in a child murderer’.

Is The Daily Mail pro-Brexit? I assume the Brexiters believe leaving the EU will Make the UK Great Again, and then Will Bring Back the Colonies!

The other mud being thrown at Trudeau is that he will (personally, it seems) welcome Jihadi Jack to Canada. It is totally unbelievable to me that the UK announced it could strip the citizenship from a person born in the UK because the guy’s father is a Canadian, so he has dual citizenship to fall back on. I hope Canada tells the UK to fuck off and die. JJ was born and raised in the UK, he’s your bloody problem.

[Derfel Cadarn]

The Daily Mail is indeed pro-brexit. Prior to WW2 it was pro- Hitler. It probably was during WW2 but had the sense to keep that to itself.

[polishgenius]

Please don't make the mistake of thinking of the Daily Mail as a newspaper.

[TrueMetis]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Please don't make the mistake of thinking of the Daily Mail as a newspaper.

Andrew Scheer has, the fucking douchebag. It's honestly mindboggling how the cons have found someone worse that Harper. I can only hope the creation of the PPC draws enough voters from the cons to utterly tank both parties.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Don'T despair my Canadian friends, I am sure we all can recognize you as proud part of the Ford nation.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Nice move by JoJo. However... “In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest.”  Wait, should a member of the government (or an MP) even have to wonder where his loyalties lie for weeks? "Hmmm... this is difficult... I was elected by the British people to serve their interests. But family loyalty first, right? What a conundrum!" It's not Game of Thrones, you know.

 

ETA: Boris Johnson's prorogation of parliament is lawful, high court rules

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/boris-johnson-prorogation-of-parliament-is-lawful-high-court-rules

Eh, he’s still human though. I think most people would struggle in that situation, especially when you consider the gravity of it and what’s on the line for your country’s future.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

On a completely different topic, a rumor being fed by UK newspapers is being used as a slur and an attack against PM Trudeau in Canada. There’s an election here in October.

Apparently you guys bizarrely believe child criminal-murderer Jon Venables, upon his release from prison, can be ‘sent’ to Canada. Or Australia. Or NZ. The Conservatives here have picked up the story, basically saying ‘not only does Trudeau accept terrorist Syrian refugees, he’s gonna take in a child murderer’.

Is The Daily Mail pro-Brexit? I assume the Brexiters believe leaving the EU will Make the UK Great Again, and then Will Bring Back the Colonies!

The other mud being thrown at Trudeau is that he will (personally, it seems) welcome Jihadi Jack to Canada. It is totally unbelievable to me that the UK announced it could strip the citizenship from a person born in the UK because the guy’s father is a Canadian, so he has dual citizenship to fall back on. I hope Canada tells the UK to fuck off and die. JJ was born and raised in the UK, he’s your bloody problem.

This is how Britain has always attempted to deal with undesirables -- export them and / or starve them to death.  Ask the Irish.

But do not feel put-upon, dear British friends and relatives -- the USA loves to lock up its undesirables first and make them work for the rich without compensation for their non-appearing bread.  Also export the problem as rapist bedbug in chief has done with Central Americans coming to the US border -- not only has he caged, starved and denied medical care to them, and particularly the children -- he has give the problem to Mexico to solve.

BTW, it has been investigated and pretty much concluded that many a story released in places like Hungary of fleeing refugees as criminals, etc. were deliberately created and released by political operatives in Russian and Ukraine, with the objective, among others, to make nations hysterical and vote to leave the EU, among other destabilizing goals for democracy.

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

12 hours ago, Werthead said:

Although the utter destruction of the Conservative Party would be a net positive for the future of our country, the negative is that the removal of the moderate and sane Tories from the party will cause the rump to swerve further and harder to the right. We've already seen reports of Cummings suggesting that the party weaponise various social issues as part of a new election campaign, which given that there's quite a few LGBTQ Conservative supporters seems unwise, but is also straight out of the Trump/Bannon playbook.

It would seem so, but there can be reason for such a thing. It’s appealing to the most bigoted to get them the most excited to get active rather than focusing on more broad appeal. Moore predicted the zealousness among Trump’s followers would compensate for being generally unpopular during his  campaign in 2016.

If Cummings has his way, I imagine all Transphobic/homophobic/ sexist adopted by the party will merely be defended as being needed to defend Britain’s culture-and not just flat-out bigotry. 

It’s not appeals people’s xenophobia/racism that’s the main driving force for Brexit-it’s just people are uber concerned about their culture.

What part of their culture? What exact significant values do they care about protecting? How are these values under threat by the immigrants? Who cares. 

 

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, he’s still human though. I think most people would struggle in that situation, especially when you consider the gravity of it and what’s on the line for your country’s future.

Agreed. I would not excuse him if he had stayed with Johnson despite his reservations but I could sympathize him being reluctant to do something that would tear his family apart.

 

 

[maarsen]

9 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It would seem so, but there can be reason for such a thing. It’s appealing to the most bigoted to get them the most excited to get active rather than focusing on more broad appeal. Moore predicted the zealousness among Trump’s followers would compensate for being generally unpopular during his  campaign in 2016.

If Cummings has his way, I imagine all Transphobic/homophobic/ sexist adopted by the party will merely be defended as being needed to defend Britain’s culture-and not just flat-out bigotry. 

It’s not appeals people’s xenophobia/racism that’s the main driving force for Brexit-it’s just people are uber concerned about their culture.

What part of their culture? What exact significant values do they care about protecting? How are these values under threat by the immigrants? Who cares. 

 

Agreed. I would not excuse him if he had stayed with Johnson despite his reservations but I could sympathize him being reluctant to do something that would tear his family apart.

 

 

Realizing that your sibling is not the sharpest knife in the drawer usually does not tear families apart.. Having to constantly extricate them from trouble does. 

[Werthead]

Sir Nicholas Soames becomes the latest MP to leave his party (albeit unwillingly) to suddenly relish the freedom of giving his former colleagues an absolute shit-kicking.

 

[Which Tyler]

Hopefully, the media having noticed and published (and us spreading) this means that it won't happen; but...

Anyone protesting today - stay safe.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-protests-london-riots-unrest-far-right-boris-johnson-no-deal-a9095161.html

 

Brexit: Far-right groups threaten to riot at London protests as Boris Johnson warned over language

‘It’s time to f*** s*** up,’ extremists threaten after parliament moves to block no-deal Brexit

[A Horse Named Stranger]

On 9/5/2019 at 9:02 PM, Fragile Bird said:

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Just wanted to update on this. Looks like I was on the money.

On 9/5/2019 at 9:05 PM, A Horse Named Stranger said:

If I were to make a guess, he  tried to pitch towards a sectorial agreement, that only covers agrifood sector on the Irish Island. Which is of course not going to fly.

Ireland shooting down Johnson's agri food idea as insufficient.