Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Weird, Bercow has just asked for the Sergeant to investigate the delay in the aye lobby. What is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Labour apparently now saying they will not vote for a general election on 14 October. Counter-suggestion that the Conservatives will introduce a bill requiring a simple majority to fix the date of the next election as 14 October in law, and the SNP have indicated they may be in favour of voting for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Aye 328 Noe 301 edit: really good, big defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Result 328 to 301 in favour of the bill. Fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 And he's invoked FTPA. From the sounds of things, he's also refusing to request the extension if legally forced to. 56 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: No idea why that quote box is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 This takes us into the twilight zone. So Johnson is going to have to court the SNP to vote for his general election bill. And we know what the price for that will be. Corbyn just confirmed he will not call for a VONC or support a government bill for a general election which allows a No Deal Brexit to occur. Bercow had to talk to JRM (or Gove, didn't quite catch where he was pointing) like a child to get him to shut the fuck up. ETA: LibDems confirming they will not vote for a general election that could lead to a No Deal Brexit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Werthead said: This takes us into the twilight zone. So Johnson is going to have to court the SNP to vote for his general election bill. And we know what the price for that will be. Corbyn just confirmed he will not call for a VONC or support a government bill for a general election which allows a No Deal Brexit to occur. Labour can't hold out against a GE for long. They can reasonably insist the date is nailed down and permits time for a new government to form (assuming a coalition) and decide a Brexit policy without being hit by the deadline but aside from that surely holding out for months when the PM wants an election is just absurd. Unless they want a referendum instead but they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Werthead said: Bercow had to talk to JRM (or Gove, didn't quite catch where he was pointing) like a child to get him to shut the fuck up. I think he said Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, which would be Gove. Apparently 21 Tories rebelled. Boris seem to be trying to back away from expelling such a large part of his party, they're now saying they'll only have the whip withdrawn if they rebel again tomorrow. Somehow I doubt that offer is going to make much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Rebels were: Guto Bebb, Richard Benyon, Steve Brine, Alistair Burt, Greg Clark, Ken Clarke, David Gauke, Justine Greening, Dominic Grieve, Sam Gyimah, Philip Hammond, Stephen Hammond, Richard Harrington, Margot James, Sir Oliver Letwin, Anne Milton, Caroline Nokes, Antoinette Sandbach, Nicholas Soames, Rory Stewart, Ed Vaizey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Apparently all 21 will lose the whip, which is fucking stupid. The likes of Letwin, Hammond, Soames and Grieve joining the LibDems or becoming Independents will be incredible. Johnson has committed the most spectacular self-owning, snookering manoeuvre in Parliamentary history, which will be something going down in the history books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 The SNP seem to have now ruled out voting in favour of a general election bill, which I think screws Boris over completely and utterly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, williamjm said: I think he said Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, which would be Gove. Apparently 21 Tories rebelled. Boris seem to be trying to back away from expelling such a large part of his party, they're now saying they'll only have the whip withdrawn if they rebel again tomorrow. Somehow I doubt that offer is going to make much of a difference. So Johnson is the Ryman Frey of British Politics. Stupid, lazy and drunk whoremonger, who just makes empty threats, he then can't follow thru. 21 minutes ago, Werthead said: This takes us into the twilight zone. So Johnson is going to have to court the SNP to vote for his general election bill. And we know what the price for that will be. I don't think they'd take that bait. And I am not sure Johnson could or would actually offer it either. Anyway, the SNP's big political capital is, that they've acted reasonable, like adults if you will. They'd pretty much spend all of that for another bite at the referendum apple. Which they may or may not win, and if they don't win and get dragged out of the EU with the UK, that would be pretty much the end for them. That price would be a bit to steep for my liking. I'd rather take the GE some time in November and torture Johnson and his Tories a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Boris Johnson kicking out Winston Churchill's grandson from Parliament for voting with his conscience on the 80th anniversary of the start of WWII is some kind of epic optics. You could not make this up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 3, 2019 Author Share Posted September 3, 2019 Yep, also old Ken Clarke. And didn't Hammond just got the backing from his constituency a few days ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Yeah, they're not going anywhere, and they're all popular enough that their constituents will vote for them again even if they joined Labour (well, okay, maybe not, but probably if they went LibDem and near-certainly as Independents). I wonder if Clarke can be persuaded not to stand down at the next election as he had previously indicated (which to be fair he didn't think was until 2022). The only problem in all of this is that there seems to be a slide towards a general election rather than Ref3. That's a strong tactical error, as the Remain vote's high geographic concentration means that a general election framed as a No Deal Leave vs Remain vote could be won by Leave even if the overall Remain (or at least anti-No Deal) vote is much, much higher. The FPTP system of a general election swings the vote much more in favour of Leave, whilst Ref3 would require a simple majority, which probably no longer exists for simple Leave vs. Remain and never did exist in the first place for No Deal vs. Remain. If the Rebel Alliance - which now seems to be their preferred name so go figure - now swung behind Ref3, that really would be something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Yep, also old Ken Clarke. And didn't Hammond just got the backing from his constituency a few days ago? Yes but I am unsure whose decision it is whether he gets to stand. I think there was talk of legal challenges if Central Office claim it is their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, Werthead said: Apparently all 21 will lose the whip, which is fucking stupid. The likes of Letwin, Hammond, Soames and Grieve joining the LibDems or becoming Independents will be incredible. Johnson has committed the most spectacular self-owning, snookering manoeuvre in Parliamentary history, which will be something going down in the history books. It also seems dangerous to kick them all out at once because if someone like Hammond wanted to he could probably quickly make himself the leader of the fourth largest party in Parliament - possibly having learned some lessons from the whole Change UK debacle about what not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Werthead said: Oh right. Keeping track of one batshit government is exhausting enough, let alone two. Check out what's going on in South America if you want to see some truly wild s**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 It has to be remembered that recent polls show a 8-10% Tory lead which apparently puts the Tories on something like a 50% chance of a majority. So even though Boris was beaten today (and we can assume, reasonably safely, that the blocking legislation will pass) he has an even chance of winning an election. Remain parties are too divided and weak to do much about this, and Tory success will largely be determined by how much damage Farage does to Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 If Labour, LibDem and remain conservatives are as smart as the respective parties claim they are, I can see a lot of strategic voting happening in Tory seats that mostly voted majority remain in the ref. The non-LibDem voters among that lot could all swing in behind a libDem and take the seat off the Tories. And if half of the rebel alliance get back into parliament as independents I do wonder where a Tory majority will come from. 8-10% ahead in polls probably also includes voters in the rebel alliance bases, so I don't know if 8-10% is quite as meaningful for Tories now considering what's happened in the last 24 hours. I'd put the chances of a Tory (+DUP) majority at less than 50% as of today. And if Labour campaigns strongly on ref 2.0 with remain as a promised option they can pick up swing voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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