Football: same old, same old

[A Horse Named Stranger]

15 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I think we'll get an old temporary option in January tbh, and make the big signing in summer. There's been rumours about Mandzukic. 

Then in summer we'll spend 80mil on Haller, or chase around trying to get Erling Haaland, pissing the fans off coz of the City connect, get rejected, and get Pukki instead for 40mil.

Still think creativity is the major problem though. Like, obviously we do need strikers but we know Martial can score given opportunities and indications and word are Greenwood can too - but look how little he got of the fucking ball in AZ's area tonight. Was downright embarassing. Literally one really great creative player and he's playing deeper because we dont' have a controlling midfielder either.

After more than two decades you are finally signing Shearer then? 

80m for Haller would be funny given that West Ham paid about half this year, altho I am not sure West Ham would sell. I think, I've made that Pukki joke after his hattrick against Newcastle, already. WRT Haaland, to Alfie was always more of a Leeds United player. 

Just throw money at Tottenham for Eriksen.

[Iskaral Pust]

Nice to see both Arsenal and Chelsea reinvigorated by some really talented youth players.  It seems irrational but I (and probably most fans) always get an extra enjoyment from seeing youth players develop successfully at their club and make the breakthrough. 

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

WRT Haaland, to Alfie was always more of a Leeds United player. 

Yeah, but no-one at United has a problem with signing Leeds players. He's remembered at United because of his beef with Keane though, and while the initial incident was at Leeds, it's City everyone remembers.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Just throw money at Tottenham for Eriksen.

I think Eriksen is eying Real Madrid or certainly a step up from Spurs to somewhere he has good chance of actually winning some trophies. Real didn't bid for him during this past window but on a free transfer, I'm sure a lot of top clubs will be vying for his signature.

I think United are far more likely to make a big money bid for Moussa Dembele from Lyon rather than Haller. Pukki is simply never going to happen unless Norwich is relegated and he become available on the cheap - the club has shown an unwillingness to spend big money on players his age after the Sanchez debacle. 

[polishgenius]

Paper talk seems to think we're most interested in either one of the Dembeles, or Werner. Werner would be the preferred option I reckon- we're in need of a holdup player we can pivot around more than we are of someone who's basically a bit like Rashford and Martial and might be better but might not, which is the case with both Dembeles.  

[Raja]

United buying Eriksen would be a fairly mediocre buy, imo. Also, he probably wouldn't go there unless they throw silly money at him.

[Consigliere]

Timo Werner is never going to happen. He'll go to Bayern. The tabloids are likely just making shit up. Ousmane Dembele is only a possibility if Barca make another attempt to sign Neymar (and PSG are still not interested in player(s) + cash deal) otherwise there's no chance. United are a very unattractive destination atm so players like Werner and O. Dembele are unlikely to be interested especially when they could get moves to much better sides. A manager can also make a big difference in these decisions and I doubt any top player is all that keen to play under Solskjaer. 

[Raja]

13 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Timo Werner is never going to happen. He'll go to Bayern.

I mean, they had him as a possible choice all summer, they were going to come in for him but because they didn't show serious interest, he was miffed and signed a new contract. From what Honigstein has said, he's miffed with Bayern so who knows?

[Dolorous Gabe]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah, but no-one at United has a problem with signing Leeds players. He's remembered at United because of his beef with Keane though, and while the initial incident was at Leeds, it's City everyone remembers.

I would say Leeds fans hate United considerably more than City fans do as a general rule, based on my experience. But I suppose some of that might stem from the signings of Cantona and Ferdinand.

Would there really be an issue with trying to sign a player with such a tenuous link to City? Matt Busby had an actual history with City, as did Denis Law (before and after).

[polishgenius]

6 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

I would say Leeds fans hate United considerably more than City fans do as a general rule, based on my experience.

Leeds fans might but it's mostly one way in my experience. 

I don't know what the reaction to Busby or Law was at the time, but it was a hella long time ago, different days. I don't think there'd be that much problem with every former City son, potentially but I do think at least some grousing would be had in this case.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I mean, they had him as a possible choice all summer, they were going to come in for him but because they didn't show serious interest, he was miffed and signed a new contract. From what Honigstein has said, he's miffed with Bayern so who knows?

He might have been upset at Bayern delaying during the last window but I doubt he snubs them if they choose to approach him again. He signed a new contract but reportedly there is a release clause. If I'm not mistaken, Kicker reported the release clause to be €30m. Even if he decides against Bayern, at such a low release clause for a top class player I'm sure he will have no shortage of offers.

[Consigliere]

42 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

Would there really be an issue with trying to sign a player with such a tenuous link to City? Matt Busby had an actual history with City, as did Denis Law (before and after).

Honestly, I doubt there would be any issue. Owen Hargreaves, Peter Schmeichel, Andy Cole, Brian Kidd all played for both United and City as well. There's no ill will harboured towards any of those players as far as I'm aware. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

I think Eriksen is eying Real Madrid or certainly a step up from Spurs to somewhere he has good chance of actually winning some trophies. Real didn't bid for him during this past window but on a free transfer, I'm sure a lot of top clubs will be vying for his signature.

I think United are far more likely to make a big money bid for Moussa Dembele from Lyon rather than Haller. Pukki is simply never going to happen unless Norwich is relegated and he become available on the cheap - the club has shown an unwillingness to spend big money on players his age after the Sanchez debacle. 

I am genuinely not sure there's such a big market for him. And Spurs lockerroom seems to be coming apart at the seams, so I can see him ending up at United.

 

22 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

He might have been upset at Bayern delaying during the last window but I doubt he snubs them if they choose to approach him again. He signed a new contract but reportedly there is a release clause. If I'm not mistaken, Kicker reported the release clause to be €30m. Even if he decides against Bayern, at such a low release clause for a top class player I'm sure he will have no shortage of offers.

Kicker speculated, that the release fee is relatively moderated around the 30m €, c&p the relevant bit from the article.

Quote

[...]

Vertrag mit Ausstiegsklausel

Die Wendung kommt schon allein deshalb überraschend, weil man bislang beim FC Bayern fest davon ausgegangen war, dass Werner im nächsten Sommer ablösefrei zum Rekordmeister wechselt. Dieses Szenario ist nun vom Tisch. Denn der neue Kontrakt garantiert nicht nur Werner eine stattliche Gehaltserhöhung, er beinhaltet auch eine Ausstiegsklausel im Falle des vorzeitigen Wechsels. Über die Höhe wurde nichts bekannt, die Summe dürfte allerdings vergleichsweise moderat gewählt worden sein und bei etwa 30 Millionen Euro liegen.

Contract with a release [fee] clause.

This turn of events [the extension] comes as a surprise, as Bayern were very certain that Werner would sign for the club next year on a free transfer. This scenario is now off the table. The new contract doesn't just guarantee Werner a big raise, it also includes a release [fee] clause, if Werner leaves the club before the end of the contract. While the actual fee remains unknown, the height is probably relatively moderate, and should be around 30m €.

My uneducated guess (for what it's worth) is, the fee will be higher than the 30m, or it is tied to Leipzig missing out on CL football or something.

[Consigliere]

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I am genuinely not sure there's such a big market for him. And Spurs lockerroom seems to be coming apart at the seams, so I can see him ending up at United.

On a free transfer? I'm sure there will be a market for him on a free. If nothing else, Juve will be all over it. They love their free transfers. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Yeah, but I am not sure if Juve can afford him. Ronaldo is on a very big contract, de Ligt and Rabiot aren't cheap either.

[Consigliere]

Juve could still try to offload Dybala again. Khedira might be offloaded as well. The new tax law that recently came into effect in Italy will help Juve wrt wages. Professional sportspersons who have not been Italian tax residents for the last two tax periods are now only taxed on 50% of their income. This will help Italian clubs to offer higher net wages at a reduced cost to company. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Matip is still injured for Liverpool and will miss the match against Leicester.  That’s a worrying miss because TAA’s side of the defense is already the more vulnerable, and Gomez has not yet shown the positioning and awareness he had last season.  Matip has been in phenomenal form these past several months.  With Alisson still not back either, I hope Liverpool will be able to keep a tight defense. 
Very difficult game ahead, especially after dodgy performances in the last two games. 

[polishgenius]

Will be an interesting game. You could make a pretty strong case that Leicester have the second best midfield in the league, especially with Spurs in the disarray they are. They are a little vulnerable to fast breaks though, on the evidence of the game against us, so Liverpool should have an in.

[Raja]

On 10/4/2019 at 2:50 PM, polishgenius said:

Verrrrrrrrrry early days obviously but Martinelli looks super (extremely sharp playing on the turn, Lewandowski-style)

Reading the athletic article on him today, apparently Martinelli trained with united 4 times & played for the under 18s

[Mme Erzulie]

I think the eulogising of Matip has gone a bit overboard. He's definitely improved a great deal from his early days at the club, and he's played very well against some tricky opponents who have targeted him to get away from Virgil. He's improved defensively, his interceptions, tackling and physicality in particular, but he's still very uneven (at best) with the ball. His clearances are nearly always completely random, whether headers or kicks, and while he's quite good at those little meandering runs with the ball out of defence, his passes are woefully inconsistent, and will often either be misplaced or put the receiving team mate in a spot of bother due to inaccuracy/pace of the ball.

There is a reason we've hardly kept a clean sheet at the start of this season versus hardly conceding a goal at the start of last season, and while missing Alisson is never going to help, Adrian has been good enough that I think it's fair to question whether Matip is contributing somewhat to our defensive frailty. 

Gomez is much quicker than Matip, which could come in handy against Vardy, and is generally better on the ball, with his clearances in particular being much more controlled. 

I rate both players (certainly both are a long way ahead of Lovren in the pecking order) and think we're lucky to have both. 

Obviously Gomez is going to be a little bit rusty after such an extended absence, but I think claims that him replacing Matip was the main reason we conceded three against Salzburg are spurious. On the first goal, Hwang sends Virgil into the stands. Gomez does make what looks like a silly foul for the second, but while it's not a stellar bit of defending, he's quite harshly punished for it. Neither Virgil or Gomez cover themselves in glory on Salzburg's third, but the main culprit is Fabinho, who just stops tracking Minamino in the box.