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•Brandon Ice Eyes

Will ADOS Be Entirely Dedicated To The Others?

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Pretty much as the title says, do you think that ADOS will be entirely dedicated to the others or will there still be political intrigue going on in the south with (f?)Aegon and Cersei and The Martells etc. 

Personally, i'd prefer for it to be entirely focused on The Others as i have always imagined ADOS as being a very grim and dark book showing a ruthless war of survival. I'd like to find out more about the COTF and Coldhands but i'd rather that the politics of the south be wrapped up by the end of WOW, save maybe Euron and Daenerys, who's arc could be an interesting side story in the south whilst everything happens up north.

What are your thoughts however?

Edited by •Brandon Ice Eyes

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7 minutes ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

             

                          

Presumably, the war against the Others, and Dany's political conflict with the Starks (if that is a thing).

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I'm skeptical if GRRM is interested enough in them to dedicate an entire book to them rather than his more human characters. I have an earlier thread on a proposed rewriting of the final books/seasons of the show to make the war for the dawn a bigger part of it.

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Maybe events in both books will be happening at the same time, only in different locations, thru different POVs, and events in ADOS will go slightly further than events in TWOW. Thus, there will be both political struggles and fights against monsters in both books.

So far we know 8 POV-characters from TWOW - Sansa in The Vale; Arya in Braavos; Tyrion, Barristan and Victarion in Meereen; Theon in The North; Aeron somewhere in the sea, possibly nearing Oldtown; Arianne in Dorne, possibly going to Stormlands. Possibly where Theon is, his POV will be interchanging with Asha's POV, because she's also in The North. Arianne's POV possibly will interchange with Areo Hotah's POV, if he will be escorting her to Stormlands. Probably, in TWOW there will also be one of Melisandre's chapters at The Wall. That's 11, + 1 in Prologue, and 1 in Epilogue, 13 POVs in total.

In ADWD there was 18 POV-characters, and 3 of them are already dead, 15 left. In AFFC there was 13 POV-characters, and 2 of them died, 12 left. In ASOS there was 12 POV-characters, 3 of them are already dead, 9 left. 10 POV-characters in ACOK, 2 of them are dead, 8 left. In AGOT there was 9 POV-characters, 3 of them are dead, 6 left.

So it's likely that those 11+2 from above are all POVs of TWOW, and the rest of POV-characters, such as Dany, Jon, Bran, Sam, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Davos, and JonCon will appear only in ADOS. 9 of them + 2 in Prologue and Epilogue.

Possibly in span of TWOW something will happen at The Wall, off screen, and characters in The North, such as Theon and Asha, and Stannis will have to run from the Others, that will somehow break thru The Wall. And what exactly happened at The Wall we will find out only in ADOS, thru Jon's POV, that will be depicting events of that break thru of the Others. Possibly Bran will arrive to Castle Black shortly prior the Others. Davos will find Rickon, and will bring him to The Wall, or to Winterfell. Brienne and Jaime will take Sansa from The Vale, and will bring her to LSH, and after that will escort her either to The Wall, or to Winterfell. JonCon probably will go to the Citadel, to find a cure, and from there he will escort Sam to The Wall, or Winterfell (if by that time Jon will be there). Dany will be with Dothraki, and by the time she will bring them to Meereen, the battle there will be already over (depicted in Tyrion's and Barristan's POVs). Dany with Dothraki, and her people from Meereen will go to Westeros, and probably on the way there, Arya will join them. So, there will be Cersei and Euron in King's Landing, fAegon with Arianne somewhere near there, Dany with her people will arrive to Westeros, and the rest of characters will be in The North, probably in Winterfell. Dany will deal with fAegon, Cersei and Euron, and will go north, to help in the final battle against the Others, where she will meet Jon. TWOW will be boring, and all important events will happen only in ADOS.

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It would depend how far TWOW goes. I tend to speculate that the Wall will fall at the end of TWOW or in the prologue of ADOS. In that case Dany should have arrived much earlier, which seem unlikely unless TWOW is a damn long book.

Even if The Wall falls end of TWOW or early in ADOS, the plot won't be only Others vs desperate humans. We would need to see Dany committing to the fight, Jon finding his identity and coming to an acceptance of it. We probably need to see the defeat of Euron and maybe see Stannis organizing the shards of the NW if he is indeed the last Lord Commander.

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40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Arianne in Dorne, possibly going to Stormlands. Possibly where Theon is, his POV will be interchanging with Asha's POV, because she's also in The North. Arianne's POV possibly will interchange with Areo Hotah's POV, if he will be escorting her to Stormlands.

Spoiler

In tWoW excerpts, Arianne II is already set in the Stormlands. She journeys along several Stormland castles, meeting various of fAegon's commanders and aids (Lysono Maar and Haldon the halfmaester). And Arianne I already informs us of Areo Hotah's whereabouts - he's with Obara and Balon Swann to hunt down Gerold Dayne at High Hermitage. Her escort is her former lover, former squire of Oberyn and bastard grandson of Lord Allyrion, Daemon Sand. BTW by Arianne II, fAegon has already taken Storm's End.

No idea where you got the idea tWoW will be boring. Battle of Ice Lakes, Battle of Meereen, Dany & Dothraki, Euron gunning for Oldtown, Battle of Stormlands, Arya (!), Sansa in the Vale (!), and at least a Mel POV to tell us the immediate aftermath at the Wall (and plenty of hints that the Others are actually at the rim of the haunted forest north of CB the night of Jon's assassination and doing stuff - like resurrect the dead the very same night). 

Spoiler

And not to forget the Riverlands, since the Prologue includes Jeyne Westerling who's traveling to Casterly Rock. And George will be killing off many POVs in tWoW.

So, nope, don't think tWoW and aDoS will split POVs geographically as George did with aFfC and aDwD.

Edited by sweetsunray

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14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

No idea where you got the idea tWoW will be boring. Battle of Ice Lakes

What's that?

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Battle of Meereen

Barristan's chapter prior the battle was utterly boring. It totally lacked any personality. Looked more like a dry summary, than an actual chapter. Though, maybe, later GRRM will rewrite it. Nothing much happens in Tyrion's POV, he's not in the centre of events, more like he's observing them from afar. So, the Battle of Meereen will be mostly boring. And the peak event of it will be how Victarion will be burned by Dany's dragons. But we have already read something like that in Quentyn's POV.

19 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Dany & Dothraki

Are we sure, that there will be Dany's POV in ADOS? Because I doubt it. Seems fairly likely, that in TWOW there will be no Jon's and no Dany's POVs, so what happened to Jon, after they tried to kill him, and what happened to Dany, when she met those Dothraki, we will find out only in ADOS. Though I hope, that I'm wrong, and GRRM did included Jon's and Dany's POV in TWOW. If Dany will be reunited with Rhaego in Vaes Dothrak, then that won't be boring.

23 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Euron gunning for Oldtown

Not interested in what's going on there. Euron will die anyway. Whatever's the reason, why he went to Oldtown, he will fail. What he went there to find (probably, same reason, why Jaqen went there), isn't there anymore, or not important anymore.

30 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Battle of Stormlands,

This could be interesting. But, most likely, we will see it only from sidelines, or info about those events will be presented to readers already after those events will happen, and thus, the most interesting events will be happening off screen.

31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Arya (!)

Boring. Braavos for her is just a stepping stone. She will shorten her death-list, while she's there, and then move on. That's when her story will become interesting/exciting.

32 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Sansa in the Vale (!)

She's stupid and boring. Wherever.

33 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

and at least a Mel POV to tell us the immediate aftermath at the Wall

Would have been so much better to read about those events from Jon's POV, not from someone else's, even Mel's.

In my opinion, the most interesting POVs are Jon, Bran and Dany. And it's fairly possible, that none of them will be in TWOW. I also like Tyrion's POV, but his two chapters in TWOW were lacking. Maybe, those were mere preliminary chapters, and later GRRM will rewrite them. But if he won't, and that's what Tyrion's POV will be from now on, then the quality of GRRM's writing has seriously went down, while he was working on TWOW.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Are we sure, that there will be Dany's POV in ADOS? Because I doubt it. Seems fairly likely, that in TWOW there will be no Jon's and no Dany's POVs, so what happened to Jon, after they tried to kill him, and what happened to Dany, when she met those Dothraki, we will find out only in ADOS.

Erhm... so, according to you we will have no Dany chapters in either Winds or Dream. Does that mean she was abducted by aliens at the end of Dance, never to be seen again? :uhoh:

 

Quote

Though I hope, that I'm wrong, and GRRM did included Jon's and Dany's POV in TWOW. If Dany will be reunited with Rhaego in Vaes Dothrak, then that won't be boring.

That will never ever happen. Not even if Martin decides to write drunk and high on 'shrooms and whatever hallucinogenic you can think of. 

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

In my opinion, the most interesting POVs are Jon, Bran and Dany. And it's fairly possible, that none of them will be in TWOW. I also like Tyrion's POV, but his two chapters in TWOW were lacking. Maybe, those were mere preliminary chapters, and later GRRM will rewrite them. But if he won't, and that's what Tyrion's POV will be from now on, then the quality of GRRM's writing has seriously went down, while he was working on TWOW.

So, you think there'll be no Dany, Bran, or Jon chapters? Do you think that makes any sense at all?  Because I don't. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Erhm... so, according to you we will have no Dany chapters in either Winds or Dream. Does that mean she was abducted by aliens at the end of Dance, never to be seen again? :uhoh:


Well, ya know, theory has it that Asshai is covered by a broken down alien spaceship, so maybe the aliens did pick up Dany from there? I mean, why not? Amirite?:drunk:

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5 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Pretty much as the title says, do you think that ADOS will be entirely dedicated to the others or will there still be political intrigue going on in the south with (f?)Aegon and Cersei and The Martells etc. 

As noted by another poster above, Martin says TWOW is planned to open with two big battles, and I cannot wait :D

I think it will be a mix of north+south for the first half of the books, with the threat of the Others becoming a real and on page sooner for the north (obvs!), but that is what will force the south to finally look north and the tone of the book will shift. We have a ton ton ton of political drama to wade through alongside the growing issue with the Others. "Boring" is the exact opposite I except of this book.

Martin has said that Dany spends time with the Dothraki and she will be in Essos for all, if not most of, TWOW. That means a large starting portion of the battle with the Others will already be in motion by the time she arrives.

5 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

Personally, i'd prefer for it to be entirely focused on The Others as i have always imagined ADOS as being a very grim and dark book showing a ruthless war of survival. I'd like to find out more about the COTF and Coldhands but i'd rather that the politics of the south be wrapped up by the end of WOW, save maybe Euron and Daenerys, who's arc could be an interesting side story in the south whilst everything happens up north.

I do tend to think that most of the "first phase" southron politicking (Aegon/Cersei/etc) will be near wrapped up by end of TWOW. GRRM has said the stuff in King's Landing is just an in-world (and maybe reader?) distraction from the real threat of the Others. I do agree that Daenerys (and maybe Euron) are the next issue in KL/south after the Others... which will be dealt with in ADOS because that is when we get most of the Dany time in Westeros.

5 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

What are your thoughts however?

Shared :cheers:

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Erhm... so, according to you we will have no Dany chapters in either Winds or Dream.

Sorry, I meant in TWOW. No Dany's chapters in TWOW.

It's a possibility, because GRRM said, that she will go to Westeros only near the end of that book.

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Does that mean she was abducted by aliens at the end of Dance, never to be seen again?

There was no Jon's POV in ACOK, and what was happening at The Wall, was depicted in Sam's chapters. Now we have Tyrion and Barristan in Meereen. So, whatever will be happening there, as far into the future, as Dany's arrival to Westeros, could be also depicted thru their POV, even if Dany will return to Meereen prior the end of TWOW. So, Dany could be present in later part of TWOW, but we will see her only thru other POVs. And then, when she will get to Westeros, there's still Tyrion, Barristan (if he won't die in TWOW), Cersei (if Dany will get to KL, then what she will be doing there, we may find out thru Cersei's POV, and not thru Dany's, because there's not much what Dany's knows about Westeros and KL, and characters that are there, or what kind of political situation they have there, so we will get significantly more information thru Cersei's POV than thru Dany's POV, if both of them will be at KL, or in that area), and later, when Dany will meet Jon, it means that she will have less screen time than him. Because majority of political events will be depicted in Tyrion's and Cersei's chapters, while nearly all action will be in Jon's, Jaime's, Brienne's and Arya's POVs. In ADOS there was only 1 of Jaime's chapters, and 2 of Cersei's, even though in previous books they had significantly more "screen time". The same could happen with Jon and Dany in the last two books. So, none of their chapters in TWOW, and small number of their chapters in ADOS. Because it's a possibility, that all important events in the last two books will be presented thru someone else's POV, and not thru Jon's or Dany's. Thru Tyrion, Bran, Sam.

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

That will never ever happen.

If Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, then Rhaego is alive. Because if Quaithe is Shiera, then she was Mirri Maz Duur's teacher, and she was summoned by Mirri, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, and Shiera used magic to help the baby to be born, and he was born alive. Later he was kidnapped by Dothraki (by Khal Pono, whom Dany met in her last chapter in ADWD), and that's the treason for blood. When Rhaegal's egg hatched, it hatched with the sound of thunder, and about the Stallion that mounts the world Dosh khaleen said, that they can hear thunder of his hooves; and several other elements of foreshadowing, that Rhaego will become second dragonrider after Dany, and that his dragon will be Rhaegal. So, it will happen prior they will depart to Westeros.

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

So, you think there'll be no Dany, Bran, or Jon chapters? Do you think that makes any sense at all?  Because I don't. 

It's a possibility. For example, in TWOW what will be happening in Westeros we will get thru Cersei's/Sansa's/Jaime/Brienne chapters in the East and Riverlands, Sam/Aeron and Arianne/Areo/JonCon in the South and south-east, Davos/Theon/Asha/Mel in the North, thru Prologue with Jeyne Westerling in the West and Riverlands; and what's happening in Essos we will get thru Victarion/Tyrion/Barristan/Arya. So, what happened with Bran beyond The Wall, after he fell asleep; with Dany, when she met those Dothraki; and with Jon, we will find out later, in ADOS. Events in TWOW and ADOS can be happening at about the same time, only ADOS will go a bit further into the future, already after POV-characters from TWOW will meet other characters, that will be POVs in ADOS.

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56 minutes ago, Megorova said:

It's a possibility, because GRRM said, that she will go to Westeros only near the end of that book.

We have had quite a few chapters from different PoVs outside of Westeros, so I don't see why would that become an issue now. 

56 minutes ago, Megorova said:

There was no Jon's POV in ACOK

Huh? Now I am certain of it, we have read entirely different books! :cheers:

ETA: there's loads and loads more in your post that I want to address, but probably won't have time for that today. I'll come back to it when I can. The botrom line is, you are again making huge assumptions  based on nothing textual, but rather what you think/want to happen. 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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@Megorova I intend what I'm saying next as a friendly and truly well-meaning advice. You should really work on your ponctuation. Specially your use of comas. I'm not a native speaker of the english language and I understand the same os true for many people in this forum. People are usually very generous about that, and that is why I'm adressing the issue. I know my posts are probably full of little mistakes and also contain a few big ones. I am greatful to the opportunity of improvment when I'm called out. Your posts would be much more pleasant and easy to read if you tried to use the comma with a little extra care. It's really distracting when my mind keeps stopping mid-sentance in weird places, and I often feel discouraged to read through your long and funny musings because of it.

 

Edited by Lady Dacey

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8 hours ago, Megorova said:

What's that?

The battle at the ice lakes between Stannis and Freys in the North.

Quote

Barristan's chapter prior the battle was utterly boring. It totally lacked any personality. Looked more like a dry summary, than an actual chapter. Though, maybe, later GRRM will rewrite it. Nothing much happens in Tyrion's POV, he's not in the centre of events, more like he's observing them from afar. So, the Battle of Meereen will be mostly boring. And the peak event of it will be how Victarion will be burned by Dany's dragons. But we have already read something like that in Quentyn's POV.

There are two chapters of Barristan. The second is in the thick of the battle. We don't have an excerpt of that, only a summary.

Quote

Are we sure, that there will be Dany's POV in ADOS? Because I doubt it. Seems fairly likely, that in TWOW there will be no Jon's and no Dany's POVs, so what happened to Jon, after they tried to kill him, and what happened to Dany, when she met those Dothraki, we will find out only in ADOS. Though I hope, that I'm wrong, and GRRM did included Jon's and Dany's POV in TWOW. If Dany will be reunited with Rhaego in Vaes Dothrak, then that won't be boring.

We are sure Dany is a POV in tWoW. George confirmed in 2012 that we will see Mago again several times. Mago was the man who raped Eroeh, before Dany claimed her. When Jaqho formed his own khalasar after MMD's ritual, he made Mago his bloodrider. Dany swore vengance for Eroeh's fate. George mentiond Mago's appearance for tWoW in particular and what a nasty guy he is.

Quote

Not interested in what's going on there. Euron will die anyway. Whatever's the reason, why he went to Oldtown, he will fail. What he went there to find (probably, same reason, why Jaqen went there), isn't there anymore, or not important anymore.

Then you should say - I will find a lot of it boring, because part of the plot involves characters that don't interest me. At least own it's "your opinion", not a blanket statement as fact as if "nothing will be happening in tWoW". The fact is that a lot will happen in tWoW, just involving characters you don't care for and using unfounded expectations on the events. If it involves characters you don't care about then that's your problem.

I like the subtle play in Braavos, Arya's dancing around the line of what the HoBaW allows or not. As for the Vale - I doubt Littlefinger's death, Timett son of Timett attacking the Bloody Gate, an avalanche interrupting a tourney (those we get scenes from are always interrupted by something) and massacring many of the attendants will be "boring".

 

Edited by sweetsunray

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I imagine there will be a "Scouring of the Shire" type scenario at the end. Probably something similar to the show, but instead of Cersei, Daenerys will fight against the "rightful King" Aegon VI Targaryen, painting herself as the villain usurping her brother's son with foreigners and beasts. 

ASOIAF isn't ASOIAF without political intrigue.

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No.  The God of Death has many faces.  Rh'llor and the Great Other  and the Storm God are one.  That will be one of the theme/revelations s of the final volume.

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It might just be me but I think that would suck fun out of the books. Like every reader, I’ve always been intrigued by this supernatural force “just over the horizon” but what I LOVE is the more grounded political aspect of the books. It seems like the war with the Others would be the natural climax but I really hope there’s a more human twist to things. If that makes any sense. 

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17 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

What are your thoughts however?

My thoughts?  I don't have much interest in the white walker and the Starks.  I would rather the story shift to the East and let Westeros fall to the cold.  Humans do not belong in Westeros.  The eastern story interests me more because all of the people that I like are already there in Slaver's Bay.  

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Spoiler

Daenerys, Bran, Asha, Davos, Cersei have been almost confirmed to be POVs for Winds. Melisandre and Hotah will return but it is not clear if they are confirmed in Winds or Dream.

GRRM has said that probably all POVs return for Winds. I expect the fight between the living and the dead and the second Dance to take place in Dream. How this can happen I still cant guess.

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