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Did Ned Hear The Weirwood?


Brandon Ice-Eyes

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So, in ASOIAF as I’m sure you all know, Ned is praying that Jon and Robb grow up as close as brothers as we see through Brans POV when he watches him through the Weirwood, yet when Bran calls out to him, it says that Ned looks up to the Tree frowning before Looking away and carrying on with his prayer.

When Bran tells Bloodraven that his father heard him, Bloodraven responds that he simply heard whistling in the Wind.

So this got me thinking, what do you think Ned heard? Did he hear the tree and simply carry on his prayers believing that the Old Gods were listening or did he think that he was being ridiculous and imagining voices?

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If you suspect there is truly an intentional parallel between "red trees" and "deserter," then I think Ned heard the voice but decided to ignore it, for some unknown reason of his own. Recall Bran's description of the Night's Watch deserter, Gared, talking with Ned before Ned executed him. In other words, Ned ignored the words of the deserter (or didn't think his message should be passed on to others) and he did the same with the red trees.

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Here's Rivers talking

Quote

"He heard a whisper on the wind, a rustling amongst the leaves. You cannot speak to him, try as you might. I know. I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it."

Rivers is wrong. Brynden may not be able to change the past but Brandon can. ( This conversation took place in adwd, therefore the other books all took place in the past)

Heres 2 excperts from acok

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He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

Jon?

The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. Can a shout be silent? He turned his head, searching for his brother, for a glimpse of a lean grey shape moving beneath the trees, but there was nothing, only . . .

A weirwood.

It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes?

Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.

He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him.

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In the godswood she found her broomstick sword where she had left it, and carried it to the heart tree. There she knelt. Red leaves rustled. Red eyes peered inside her. The eyes of the gods. "Tell me what to do, you gods," she prayed.

For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. Gooseprickles rose on Arya's skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy.

Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father's voice. "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives," he said.

"But there is no pack," she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. "I'm not even me now, I'm Nan."

"You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you."

"The wolf blood." Arya remembered now. "I'll be as strong as Robb. I said I would." She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee. It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside. I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth.

So like Seams said, Ned heard more then just the leaves

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1 hour ago, Seams said:

If you suspect there is truly an intentional parallel between "red trees" and "deserter," then I think Ned heard the voice but decided to ignore it, for some unknown reason of his own. Recall Bran's description of the Night's Watch deserter, Gared, talking with Ned before Ned executed him. In other words, Ned ignored the words of the deserter (or didn't think his message should be passed on to others) and he did the same with the red trees.

The irony -- Eddard Stark, by dismissing the deserter, disregarded the message of the (red) trees, which as it so happens is none Other than the words of his own House -- Winter Is Coming! ;)

As you so astutely have noted, Gared 'had the ear' of the Others (or vice versa).  Thus, Ned disregarded the message of the Others at his peril; everything 'went south', literally and figuratively (essentially deserting his post at Winterfell); and he was beheaded -- like the deserter, whom he mirrors -- by Ice.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Here's Rivers talking

Rivers is wrong. Brynden may not be able to change the past but Brandon can. 

Yes, indeed.

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Bran's throat was very dry. He swallowed. "Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

When have you ever known Bran to respect a restriction? "No more climbing..." Famous last words!

We know that Theon heard Bran, so I see no reason to assume the same could not be true of the encounter with his father.

What do you think, @Dorian Martell's son ?

A most interesting topic...

(I've been thinking of you, as the keen and merciless eye of Dorian bears down on Florida... :whip:  B) )

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Rivers is wrong. Brynden may not be able to change the past but Brandon can.

About to take off so can't get into it now. But no,  Bran will not change the past. IMO. 

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3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

The irony -- Eddard Stark, by dismissing the deserter, disregarded the message of the (red) trees, which as it so happens is none Other than the words of his own House -- Winter Is Coming! ;)

As you so astutely have noted, Gared 'had the ear' of the Others (or vice versa).  Thus, Ned disregarded the message of the Others at his peril; everything 'went south', literally and figuratively (essentially deserting his post at Winterfell); and he was beheaded -- like the deserter, whom he mirrors -- by Ice.

Yes, indeed.

When have you ever known Bran to respect a restriction? "No more climbing..." Famous last words!

Lol. To pretty much all of that. Good stuff.

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

We know that Theon heard Bran, so I see no reason to assume the same could not be true of the encounter with his father.

When Theon hears Bran its in adwd though (although there was something about his dreams in Neds bed in acok iirc) so (presumably) Bran is talking to Theon in real time, as opposed to Ned who heard his sons voice before he was born.

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

About to take off so can't get into it now. But no,  Bran will not change the past. IMO. 

Not like hitting the rewind button or anything but (assumingly) he already has. In Clash Bran was speaking to Jon (and I think Arya) with a power he only learned in Dance 

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9 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said:

So, in ASOIAF as I’m sure you all know, Ned is praying that Jon and Robb grow up as close as brothers as we see through Brans POV when he watches him through the Weirwood, yet when Bran calls out to him, it says that Ned looks up to the Tree frowning before Looking away and carrying on with his prayer.

When Bran tells Bloodraven that his father heard him, Bloodraven responds that he simply heard whistling in the Wind.

So this got me thinking, what do you think Ned heard? Did he hear the tree and simply carry on his prayers believing that the Old Gods were listening or did he think that he was being ridiculous and imagining voices?

We may never know.  Martin seems like he wanted to stimulate our imagination.  

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On 9/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, ravenous reader said:

The irony -- Eddard Stark, by dismissing the deserter, disregarded the message of the (red) trees, which as it so happens is none Other than the words of his own House -- Winter Is Coming! ;)

As you so astutely have noted, Gared 'had the ear' of the Others (or vice versa).  Thus, Ned disregarded the message of the Others at his peril; everything 'went south', literally and figuratively (essentially deserting his post at Winterfell); and he was beheaded -- like the deserter, whom he mirrors -- by Ice.

Yes. This is the complex type of foreshadowing that the author uses. Ned was dolmed from the very beginning. He ignored the message and killed the messenger with Ice. Later, his message was ignored and he was killed by ice.

On 9/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, ravenous reader said:

.Yes, indeed.

I disagree. Rivers is not wrong. He is quite clear about the past being the past. If he was wrong, Bran could have had a conversation with his dad, told him of the impending others invasion, the twincest and the folly of going to king's landing and seperating the family allowing Ned to rally the north, reinforce the watch, make peace with the wildlings, contact the children of the forest  and unite humanity above the neck against the return of the ice demons effectively undoing the whole story before Dance. That would suck ass. So, the past is simply the past that a lucky few like Bran can see. That sight will allow him to reveal Jon's bio parentage. 

On 9/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, ravenous reader said:

When have you ever known Bran to respect a restriction? "No more climbing..." Famous last words!

Have we seen bran climb anything since he fell?  Bl,oodraven said he would never climb again, but he would fly, and bloodraven was correct. 

On 9/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, ravenous reader said:

hat Theon heard Bran, so I see no reason to assume the same could not be true of the encounter with his father.

Bran-raven was talking to theon in real time. Not from the future to an unchangable past 

On 9/3/2019 at 2:44 PM, kissdbyfire said:

About to take off so can't get into it now. But no,  Bran will not change the past. IMO. 

Bingo!

On 9/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, ravenous reader said:

What do you think, @Dorian Martell's son ?

A most interesting topic...

(I've been thinking of you, as the keen and merciless eye of Dorian bears down on Florida... :whip:  B) )

I'll be in my bunk :devil:

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I think the past is in the past. If it wasn't, then Bloodraven could have tried to influence it and change it. Wouldn't BR want Rhaegar to win on the Trident for instance? Or wouldn't he want to change or undo some of what his own father did? If a greenseer could rewrite the past, then he could rewrite whatever he wants, with new consequences for all involved.

About Ned, we know he heard something here.

Lord Eddard Stark sat upon a rock beside the deep black pool in the godswood, the pale roots of the heart tree twisting around him like an old man's gnarled arms. The greatsword Ice lay across Lord Eddard's lap, and he was cleaning the blade with an oilcloth.
"Winterfell," Bran whispered.
His father looked up. "Who's there?" he asked, turning
. . . (Bran III, ADwD 34)

Leaf tells Bran to not seek to call his father back from the dead. I think this is the key sentence here. So at the very least,  she seems to acknowledge that Bran has/might have the power to bring back the dead. 

And we know Ned heard something here as well;

"Father," Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."
Eddard Stark lifted his head and looked long at the weirwood, frowning, but he did not speak. He cannot see me, Bran realized, despairing. He wanted to reach out and touch him, but all he could do was watch and listen. I am in the tree. I am inside the heart tree, looking out of its red eyes, but the weirwood cannot talk, so I can't.
Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep? (Bran III, ADwD 34)

Ned obviously heard something here because he interrupted his prayer (thanks, Bran!), lifted his head and looked up at the heart tree. We don't know what he heard, so that's a moot point, but I think the important part is that he "looked long at the weirwood, frowning."

Both Jon and Theon Bran's face in the weirwood, so there's the a chance that for the span of a moment, past!Ned glimpsed Bran's face in the tree. So at the very least, the weirwoods can take on Bran's face. 

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Interesting to compare the failure to listen in the scene with Ned, the sword and the Bran tree to this scene of Catelyn and Robb with a sword:

"Why not a peace?" Catelyn asked.

The lords looked at her, but it was Robb's eyes she felt, his and his alone. ...

... "Robb, if that sword could bring him back, I should never let you sheathe it until Ned stood at my side once more . . . but he is gone, and a hundred Whispering Woods will not change that. Ned is gone ... I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband."

The hall was very quiet when Catelyn finished speaking.

"Peace," said her uncle Brynden. "Peace is sweet, my lady . . . but on what terms? It is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare if you must forge it again on the morrow." ....

Lord Blackwood agreed, to Catelyn's suprise and dismay. ...

Again the shouting began. Catelyn sat despairing. She had come so close, she thought. They had almost listened, almost . . . but the moment was gone. There would be no peace, no chance to heal, no safety. She looked at her son ...

I have taken selective passages, but maybe Uncle Brynden and Lord Blackwood in the Catelyn POV are giving us hints about Bloodraven's motive in advising Bran.

 

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"If Robb has to go, watch over him," Bran entreated the old gods, as they watched him with the heart tree's red eyes, "and watch over his men, Hal and Quent and the rest, and Lord Umber and Lady Mormont and the other lords. And Theon too, I suppose. Watch them and keep them safe, if it please you, gods. Help them defeat the Lannisters and save Father and bring them home."

A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth. "You hear them, boy?" a voice asked.(...)

"No, stay," Bran commanded her. "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

Osha studied him. "You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods?" She seated herself across the pool from him, clinking faintly as she moved. Mikken had fixed iron manacles to her ankles, with a heavy chain between them; she could walk, so long as she kept her strides small, but there was no way for her to run, or climb, or mount a horse. "They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that's them talking back."

BRAN VI, A Game of Thrones

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