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Bull**it Jobs


Liffguard

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36 minutes ago, Khaleesi did nothing wrong said:

How are CEO's, administrators,  and legal consultants not essential to society?

It's not that those positions are unnecessary or inessential.  My understanding is Graeber is saying these positions tend to be either way too over-staffed (in terms of the latter two), or increasing and incredibly overpaid (in terms of CEOs. I think he's also implying the effective role of a CEO is usually just appeasing shareholders.)  Anyway, I'm not here to be the defender of Graeber's argument.  You make some good points, and really it's not my field (or even discipline) so I'm hardly gonna die on the cross over it.  The assertions expressed are my summary of Graeber's argument.  Not my own.

41 minutes ago, Khaleesi did nothing wrong said:

They certainly do. But then we are mainly talking about certain organisations suffering from bloat.

No.  Bloat is not Graeber's point, although it's a common misconception.  He's looking at how the work is pointless, and the effect that has on the worker.  His approach is coming from the worker's perspective and how conducting pointless tasks can lead to malaise, not the top-down viewpoint that "oh, we have surplus employees so we should fire them."  I guess the latter is a part of it in some respects, but if that's what you take away from it you're really missing the boat.

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56 minutes ago, Khaleesi did nothing wrong said:

How are CEO's, administrators,  and legal consultants not essential to society? With lobbyists and telemarketers one could argue that it depends on what they do more specifically, but a lot of the examples given in this thread come from people who do not understand how a modern economy functions.

As DMC said, you're missing the point. It's not necessarily that some positions/jobs are useless (some discussed are, but some aren't), it's that the people in those jobs sometimes feel that they are not contributing anything worthy to society... In other words, being a cog in a giant machine whose main purpose is to generate profits sometimes turns out to be painful rather than gratifying.

I think what Graeber is really saying is that many people feel out of touch with the values that their position/job represents. And not having much to do is more like salt in the wound than the core problem.
Given Greaber's personal ideas, I think his work is just an original way of attacking the dominant ideology.

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  • 1 month later...

Resurrecting this to post an essay by William Morris that I read today. Again, just reinforcing that this topic is not recent, since it was already being discussed in the 1880s. Although, I suspect it's far more prevalent nowadays.

Useful Work versus Useless Toil

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To sum up, then, concerning the manner of work in civilized States, these States are composed of three classes - a class which does not even pretend to work, a class which pretends to works but which produces nothing, and a class which works, but is compelled by the other two classes to do work which is often unproductive.

Civilization therefore wastes its own resources, and will do so as long as the present system lasts. These are cold words with which to describe the tyranny under which we suffer; try then to consider what they mean.

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But since men live now, badly as they live, when so many people do not produce at all, and when so much work is wasted, it is clear that, under conditions where all produced and no work was wasted, not only would every one work with the certain hope of gaining a due share of wealth by his work, but also he could not miss his due share of rest.

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That first step of freeing people from the compulsion to labour needlessly will at least put us on the way towards this happy end; for we shall then have time and opportunities for bringing it about. As things are now, between the waste of labour-power in mere idleness and its waste in unproductive work, it is clear that the world of civilization is supported by a small part of its people; when all were working usefully for its support, the share of work which each would have to do would be but small, if our standard of life were about on the footing of what well-to-do and refined people now think desirable. We shall have labour-power to spare, and shall, in short, be as wealthy as we please.

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From all that has been said already it follows that labour, to be attractive, must be directed towards some obviously useful end, unless in cases where it is undertaken voluntarily by each individual as a pastime. This element of obvious usefulness is all the more to be counted on in sweetening tasks otherwise irksome, since social morality, the responsibility of man towards the life of man, will, in the new order of things, take the place of theological morality, or the responsibility of man to some abstract idea. Next, the day's work will be short. This need not be insisted on. It is clear that with work unwasted it can be short. It is clear also that much work which is now a torment, would be easily endurable if it were much shortened.

 

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I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot lately. Having to suddenly work from home when my job is mostly collections based in a museum is so frustrating. Like yes I have work to do but I can’t concentrate and I find because I’m bored and frustrated I work less. I just think doinb a more physical job and having more tangible results must sometimes be more satisfying than sitting behind a screen for 8 hours just reading, emails, writing, reading, emails, social media etc. Don’t want to sound ungrateful for having a job though. 

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I'm in a similar position @Theda Baratheon Lucky to have a job, but every time my boss goes on a ramble about how working from home is wonderful, so practical, and certainly going to be much more widely adopted in the future, I have to bite my tongue. It had better bloody not be if it's like this. 

I think I'd be better at concentrating if there was a sense of urgency, a deadline, some kind of time pressure, or just the feeling that any of what I'm doing matters - but I'm just floating. The senior staff do all the meaningful work, of which there isn't much, because we were probably overstaffed anyway. 

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1 hour ago, dog-days said:

I'm in a similar position @Theda Baratheon Lucky to have a job, but every time my boss goes on a ramble about how working from home is wonderful, so practical, and certainly going to be much more widely adopted in the future, I have to bite my tongue. It had better bloody not be if it's like this. 

I think I'd be better at concentrating if there was a sense of urgency, a deadline, some kind of time pressure, or just the feeling that any of what I'm doing matters - but I'm just floating. The senior staff do all the meaningful work, of which there isn't much, because we were probably overstaffed anyway. 

Ahh the bolded I feel completely. I’m much better with genuine deadlines and urgency and a tiny bit of (helpful) stress. This weird floating where everything is in some kind of virtual space; social life, work life, home life and it’s all taking part in the same physical space is so bizarre. Feeling like with the backdrop of a global pandemic my work isn’t too significant! 

I try n put my work laptop away every day at the end of my “shift” and I wear my work clothes during the working day to try to give me some kind of association with that part of the day. Do you have any tips or tricks yet because I don’t think mine are hugely working by themselves :lol: 

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On 4/27/2020 at 12:06 PM, Liffguard said:

Resurrecting this to post an essay by William Morris that I read today. Again, just reinforcing that this topic is not recent, since it was already being discussed in the 1880s. Although, I suspect it's far more prevalent nowadays.

It's definitely a part of Marxist ideology.  What I think is interesting is it's still relevant today.  Alienation permeating.  And I did this prep before Covid.

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39 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Ahh the bolded I feel completely. I’m much better with genuine deadlines and urgency and a tiny bit of (helpful) stress. This weird floating where everything is in some kind of virtual space; social life, work life, home life and it’s all taking part in the same physical space is so bizarre. Feeling like with the backdrop of a global pandemic my work isn’t too significant! 

I try n put my work laptop away every day at the end of my “shift” and I wear my work clothes during the working day to try to give me some kind of association with that part of the day. Do you have any tips or tricks yet because I don’t think mine are hugely working by themselves :lol: 

No tips or tricks at all. I've just been trying not to be cross with myself for my habit of drifting off into dreamland after 30 seconds of "work". Things I do to feel better in general include planting random pips and seeds from things I've eaten in pots on the window sill to see if they sprout, and planning a cycling holiday for when this is over. Though I don't think either really improves the quality or quantity of my 9-5! 

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  • 4 months later...

Semi-off-topic, but David Graeber died yesterday.

I am gutted. This is honestly the first time a specific stranger's death has truly affected me on an emotional level. I am generally wary of hero-worship, but inasmuch as any one person can provide the foundation of another's worldview, Graeber's work provided that for me.

I'll be drinking a few drams and pouring a libation tonight.

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On Monday I'm going to drive 9 hours to the Belgian-French border to talk to people for two days about things that could be easily figured out in  Teams. In fact we solved everything via Teams long time ago but the customer feels that personal contact would be a good idea. Btw : parts of Belgium is corona high risk area. But just not that part.

On Wednesday I go ahead to the Netherlands to meet another German guy living in Germany not too far away from me  in our local offices there. Why you may ask? Because his company happens to have offices in Belgium.l, but in the corona part. So ne and another German will sit in the Netherlands and will have a kickoff meeting with literally 20 Belgians on teams calling in from corona Belgium.

After that I will drive another 9 hours not home but to an empty house without heating or Wi-Fi to self insolate from my family for 7 days (wife is afraid of corona). I will use those days to have 4 more half day Teams  conferences with aforementioned Belgians. No idea how that will work without Wi-Fi.

Btw, the first meeting im accompanied by a colleague from the same office. So at least the drive won't be too boring, right? Unfortunately we have to take two cars because renting a car for one day from the Netherlands is 5 times as expensive than for a week from Germany.

On the plus side...the meeting place in Belgium is in a chocolate factory. Yay, Belgian chocolate! But wait! Because of corona # we are actually meeting outside of the premises of the factory with no chance of a visit.

Sounds like a bullshit job for me.

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