FictionIsntReal Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, James Steller said: You would think that Renly would have told Robert about it if he knew. This isn’t Stannis we’re talking about. On the surface, Renly stands to gain nothing from Robert’s children being revealed as bastards because Stannis is older and the presumptive heir in that case. Plus, Robert and Renly got along, unlike with Stannis. So Renly hiding that information - assuming he did know - is a ludicrous decision, and is out of character. He isn’t shrewd and pragmatic like Stannis or burdened with a sense of honour like Ned, he would have told Robert if he knew that his children weren’t legitimate. The lack of gain to Renly at that time would be a reason for him to hold off until he's got Margaery in place. GRRM addressed Robert's attitude toward his brothers here: Quote We discussed whether Robert loved his brother Renly or not. Haaruk thought so, while I never envisioned their relationship as more than lukewarm. (Jaime said Robert hardly could stomach his brothers (plural form)). Which is correct? There are many different kinds of love. Robert was dutiful toward his brothers, and no doubt loved them in a way... but he didn't necessarily like them. His relations with Stannis were always prickly. Renly was the baby of the family, and spent little time in Robert's company until he was old enough to come to court. I suspect Robert was fond of the boy, but not especially close to him. Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 6:03 AM, •Brandon Ice Eyes said: Never would happen, Tyrell did not want her to be queen of the North, he wanted her to be queen of Westeros. Besides: Lord Redwyne laughed. "What is there north of the Neck that any sane man would want? If Greyjoy will trade swords and sails for stone and snow, I say do it, and count ourselves lucky." "Truly," agreed Mace Tyrell. I bet they aren't counting themselves lucky now. Assholes...it's hard to believe that these are the men running the country. Slightly off-topic: this is also why the Others and the undead need to overwhelm the northmen and pass the Neck so that they can wreak havoc in the south. Apparently, if it's not affecting or threatening them, it's not important enough to deal with. It's only good for jokes and salacious commentary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 8:45 AM, Angel Eyes said: It actually kinda bugs me sometimes; if they were trying to make Margaery queen, did Renly know of the Lannincest and tried to usurp anyways? Did he honestly think that Robert would divorce Cersei with no contingency plan for what Tywin would do if his daughter was set aside? In all the histories of the Iron Throne, only one divorce has happened, and said king was Baelor the Blessed. Tywin could easily default on all the money paid to the Crown if Cersei was set aside. He didn't know. It's pretty clear through both his actions and his words that he didn't know and doesn't really believe it when he finds out. At best he believed it after he got Stannis' letter and mocked Stannis to a small group of people to hide it, which is basically worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 On 9/9/2019 at 9:37 PM, FictionIsntReal said: The lack of gain to Renly at that time would be a reason for him to hold off until he's got Margaery in place. GRRM addressed Robert's attitude toward his brothers here: He was doing it to get rid of Cersei because he thought she was trying to kill him -- and she was. He says as much to both Catelyn and Eddard. He's not trying to be king; he doesn't want to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: He didn't know. It's pretty clear through both his actions and his words that he didn't know and doesn't really believe it when he finds out. At best he believed it after he got Stannis' letter and mocked Stannis to a small group of people to hide it, which is basically worthless. If he knew, why was he trying to get Margaery to supplant Cersei? Only a fanatic like Baelor the Blessed ever sets aside a wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: If he knew, why was he trying to get Margaery to supplant Cersei? Only a fanatic like Baelor the Blessed ever sets aside a wife. Because Cersei was trying to kill him (and Robert and Stannis). See my above post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FictionIsntReal Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 10:54 AM, Universal Sword Donor said: Because Cersei was trying to kill him (and Robert and Stannis). See my above post Stannis actually fled the capital after Jon Arryn's death. Renly didn't. The first plot to kill Robert we hear of is when Ned talks to Varys about Robert's aborted participation in the melee. Renly actually did participate in the jousting tourney, but there did not appear to be any attempt on his life. Renly was also with Robert during the latter's last hunt, and as far as we know there was no attempt made to kill Renly then either. Renly finally flees the capital with Loras after Robert dies and Ned refuses his plan of seizing Joffrey. Prior to that he doesn't seem to have any fear of the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 1:16 PM, The Young Maester said: It does make an interesting love story. An honourable Lord/King. And the ambitious lady. But realistically it would’ve never happened. Robb was not honorable. He was the opposite of honorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Robb was not honorable. He was the opposite of honorable. Please elaborate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, The Young Maester said: Please elaborate You've been on this forum for a while. There have been countless discussions on how despicable and dishonorable it was for Robb Stark to break his oath to Lord Walder Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said: You've been on this forum for a while. There have been countless discussions on how despicable and dishonorable it was for Robb Stark to break his oath to Lord Walder Frey. To be fair a lot of people have different opinions on whether he is honourable or not. To me he at least tried to be honourable but was bad at it. He did sacrifice his own honour for a stranger tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 On 9/12/2019 at 7:34 PM, FictionIsntReal said: Stannis actually fled the capital after Jon Arryn's death. Renly didn't. The first plot to kill Robert we hear of is when Ned talks to Varys about Robert's aborted participation in the melee. Renly actually did participate in the jousting tourney, but there did not appear to be any attempt on his life. Renly was also with Robert during the latter's last hunt, and as far as we know there was no attempt made to kill Renly then either. Renly finally flees the capital with Loras after Robert dies and Ned refuses his plan of seizing Joffrey. Prior to that he doesn't seem to have any fear of the Lannisters. Because Robert was still alive, re Renly's fear. Luckily we don't need to debate the veracity of the theory as Cersei tells us herself who needed to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FictionIsntReal Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 On 9/26/2019 at 10:43 PM, Universal Sword Donor said: Because Robert was still alive, re Renly's fear. Luckily we don't need to debate the veracity of the theory as Cersei tells us herself who needed to die. The same logic applies to both Robert and Renly when the former is alive. The Lannister's made actual attempts to assassinate the former, but not the latter. And Cersei said they would have to deal with Renly, but she didn't specifically say kill him. Cersei herself becomes a problem to the Lannister coalition later on and Kevan deals with her in a way to neutralize her power and prevent her from causing problems, but of course he doesn't kill her. Tywin saw a problem posed by the Tyrells trying to obtain Sansa, and rather than kill her or any Tyrells he just arranged for marriages to head that off. Littlefinger had many Lords Declarant in the Vale hostile to him, and he finds ways to deal with them that mostly don't require any assassinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagini's Neville Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 5. September 2019 at 3:45 PM, Angel Eyes said: It actually kinda bugs me sometimes; if they were trying to make Margaery queen, did Renly know of the Lannincest and tried to usurp anyways? Did he honestly think that Robert would divorce Cersei with no contingency plan for what Tywin would do if his daughter was set aside? In all the histories of the Iron Throne, only one divorce has happened, and said king was Baelor the Blessed. Tywin could easily default on all the money paid to the Crown if Cersei was set aside. Maybe they wanted to murder her. The Tyrells are good with poison after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 A whole lot of things needed to go down differently for it to happen. (Fan fiction stuff) But, you know, I'm not all that sure they would have been compatible, depending on which Marg we are talking about. (Show or book.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 If marrying Joffrey or Tommen to Marg was out of table, for whatever reason (let's say Tyrion sends Cersei to make the alliance like he first intended and she botched it like usual), what would be the next step for the Tyrells? Send Loras to Daenerys? Send Loras to Shereen? Go back to neutral? Could Varys send them information about (f)Aegon? how far behind would Robb pairing be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 It could happen if Robb decided to take the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Robb could legitimize Edric Storm who would have a claim to the throne, and marry him to Margaery in exchange for his support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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