Mrstrategy Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 What if denys and Elbert arryn and their families had survived to war of five kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Pretty much nothing changes. Jon Arryn still marries Lysa Tully regardless, they have a son, and the son is the new heir. Denys and Elbert take the place of Harry the Heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Mrstrategy said: What if denys and Elbert arryn and their families had survived to war of five kings? You mean Robert's Rebellion? I think a lot. Having two - and by all accounts - capable heirs might change the calculations in Jon Arryn's head enough to not marry Lysa and then the whole plot doesn't happen. Even if he still marries her and the plot happens as OTL. Denys and Elbert might have enough political clout within the Vale to force Lysa's hand and get the Vale involved in the war. In that case the Lannisters are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Ice-Eyes Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Jon still marries Lysa as it was necessary for a war alliance as Hoster Tully wanted one of his grandson' as the Lord of Vale and The Eyrie, and thus, Sweetrobin still happens. Maybe Denys and Elbert can rally the Vale to without the support of Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said: Jon still marries Lysa as it was necessary for a war alliance as Hoster Tully wanted one of his grandson' as the Lord of Vale and The Eyrie, and thus, Sweetrobin still happens. Maybe Denys and Elbert can rally the Vale to without the support of Lysa. It might lead to a Vale civil war, because Lysa is Petyr’s pawn and would force her hand to maintain control of the Vale against the Arryns. The Lords Declarant would obviously back the Arryns, and with Baelish preoccupied, Lysa might lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I doubt Jon marries anyone. Just as easy for Hoster to wed Lysa to Elbert. It makes more sense from a dynastic standpoint and a personal standpoint. Elbert is a lot younger, unmarried, Jon's heir, and hypothetically looks like Jon/Harold since he's an Arryn. So really not much changes until about 298 in the timeline as I'm assuming Lysa won't suffer as man miscarriages and go shit off her rocker. This is assuming it's Jon's age playing the biggest issue and not Lysa's tansy tea causing permanent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 If Jon is over 60 and already has recognized an heir, it would make more sense for him to seal the alliance by marrying Lysa to his heir. Perhaps little Robert might not get his chance to demand to see the "small man fly" after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, nyser1 said: If Jon is over 60 and already has recognized an heir, it would make more sense for him to seal the alliance by marrying Lysa to his heir. Perhaps little Robert might not get his chance to demand to see the "small man fly" after all... That’s a good point, but then why didn’t Jon have Denys marry Lysa? Denys was alive at the time and he was Jon’s heir. Yet Jon still married Lysa anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, James Steller said: That’s a good point, but then why didn’t Jon have Denys marry Lysa? Denys was alive at the time and he was Jon’s heir. Yet Jon still married Lysa anyway. This is the same guy who for 15 years ran the realm and did not know that the Queen he served was sleeping with her bodyguard brother. The logic game is not strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 LF control of the Vale would be much smaller. Lysa may not even become the regent as she was cleary unstable, and in this situation Elbert would probably be the castelan and hold more influence then Lysa. Catelyn might be less certain of bringing Tyrion to the Eyrie. If she does, I doubt the situation would be similar to what Lysa made it out., refusing Tyrion the chance to wait for Jaime as his champion. Jaime would probably won, Tyrion still walks free. I doubt that they would be forced to take the mountains way, so no helping from the them later on. With Jaime being busy fighting for Tyrion as champion Tywin would probably give command to Kevan instead and he would probably not follow Jaime mistakes, Robb would probably still take advantage of the positions of the camps in Riverrun, but his victory would be much less decisive. I'm not convinced that Elbert would join the Starks, Catelyn has no proof of Tyrion attempt to murder Bran, and if Lysa acoused Tyrion the trial of combat would clear his name. The Arryns have no cause to join the Starks/Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, nyser1 said: If Jon is over 60 and already has recognized an heir, it would make more sense for him to seal the alliance by marrying Lysa to his heir. Perhaps little Robert might not get his chance to demand to see the "small man fly" after all... Denys was already married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said: Denys was already married. Elbert it is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, nyser1 said: This is the same guy who for 15 years ran the realm and did not know that the Queen he served was sleeping with her bodyguard brother. The logic game is not strong. Denys was married to Jon's niece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, nyser1 said: Elbert it is then. Man you guys are into something!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 hours ago, nyser1 said: This is the same guy who for 15 years ran the realm and did not know that the Queen he served was sleeping with her bodyguard brother. The logic game is not strong. I never quite understood how an honorable man like Jon Arryn was able to run the realm for 15 years when Ned Stark had it crumbling around his ears in four months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 14 hours ago, •Brandon Ice Eyes said: Jon still marries Lysa as it was necessary for a war alliance as Hoster Tully wanted one of his grandson' as the Lord of Vale and The Eyrie, and thus, Sweetrobin still happens. Maybe Denys and Elbert can rally the Vale to without the support of Lysa. Even though Hoster still had a foot in the North via Ned filling Brandon's spot as Catelyn's husband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsjj251 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 7:35 PM, Angel Eyes said: Even though Hoster still had a foot in the North via Ned filling Brandon's spot as Catelyn's husband? Southron ambitions was really always "Tully Ambitions" Remember Lysa was supposed to marry Jamie Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 5 hours ago, dsjj251 said: Southron ambitions was really always "Tully Ambitions" Remember Lysa was supposed to marry Jamie Lannister. And Edmure would have married Arianne Martell if Doran had not been scheming to marry her off to Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finley McLeod Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Petyr Baelish will be negatively affected. Having two other men around to advice could open Jon Arryn's eyes to Petyr Baelish. One of them will be bound to see through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 9/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, James Steller said: That’s a good point, but then why didn’t Jon have Denys marry Lysa? Denys was alive at the time and he was Jon’s heir. Yet Jon still married Lysa anyway. Denys was already married according to the wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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