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DCEU: Killer Clowns from Gotham City


GallowKnight

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18 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Complaining about the bus catch just seems silly to me. It's a superhero movie ffs. Physics doesn't live here and this movie never pretended that it did.

I don't know, you're kind of right but Billy was holding that thing up with his palms on the windshield. I laughed in the theater [though my daughters didn't catch it]

That's some Nth metal kind of glass or some shit.

When your storyboarders and director can't catch that... [spreads hands] 

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6 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

I don't know, you're kind of right but Billy was holding that thing up with his palms on the windshield. I laughed in the theater [though my daughters didn't catch it]

That's some Nth metal kind of glass or some shit.

When your storyboarders and director can't catch that... [spreads hands] 

Pretty much.  "Nuking the fridge" was at least so ridiculous it was entertaining.  "Catching the bus" was supposed to be a tense scene that wasn't played for laughs.

15 hours ago, polishgenius said:


I mean I understand the scepticism but it's fair to say we know about the problems with those movies because no-one involved in them has been in any way shy about telling us. We knew about all the reshoots before they happened and the whole messing-up process was really clear.

I've not seen anything like that from the creators of those two films and certainly no indication that they were made to go back and reshoot or reedit lare chunks.

That's fair. I'm not suggesting there were specific issues on the sets of these films; I'm making the distinction between director driven films and producer or studio driven films.

I was watching Kubrick: A Life in Pictures, where they go through his career chronologically. On Spartacus, Kubrick was brought in after production had started by Kirk Douglas, the films star and producer.  I happen to like Spartacus a lot.  Not only for the film itself but because it broke the Hollywood blacklist by openly crediting Dalton Trumbo as screen writer.

However, making that film wasn't a happy experience for Kubrick.  He didn't like not having control over what he was doing.  From then on, he would only work in his projects. Love him or hate him, this was not a guy who was getting notes from producers or studio executives after that.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I never thought there was anything wrong with his take on the Joker.  I think it just got a lot of hate because of the shambolic mess the film was.  Not to mention that most of his performance was cut out of the film.

Also, my understanding that these aren't "re-shoots".  This is "in addition to".  Additional photography required to restructure the film into a mini series and story elements that were written out are being put back in. Supposedly, the Joker stuff will either involve Arkham Asylum or Knighmare scenes. 

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C'mon, the Leto Joker is terrible.  Maybe not in general motivation, but look and presentation. 

Mind you, my 10 year old, who had not watched the movie, but watches a lot of YouTube videos of some film theory" guy, is convinced that the Leto Joker is actually the Tim Drake Robin, who we're supposed to think is dead based on clues from BvS...

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Yeah maybe it is not right to judge Leto based on the hack job that was made on his character in SS, but I think you can still look at some of the choices he made for his character, and just maybe think that actually it's the worst version of the Joker on screen ever. 

His interpretation of 'edgy' is the exact interpretation you would expect from someone whose life is on the othe end of the spectrum from 'edgy'.

It's the sort of thing you would expect from the guy who seems to think 30 Seconds to Mars is an edgy rock band. He should never have been allowed near creative control. 

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Duh, don’t you know Snyder is a misunderstood genius whose movies can only be comprehended by a level 30 intellect. They work on so many levels that they actually break the rules of time and space.

I for one cannot wait to see this work of art.. though will miss the cgi mustache.

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48 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I feel like I missed a meeting on why everyone cares about this Snyder cut. Why exactly do we think it’ll be significantly better?

 

 

I don't expect it to be a work of art or anything, and aren't likely to watch it on release, but given just how much of his movie was reportedly jetissoned - some reports have it at like 70% was scenes not filmed by him, right?- I'm just plain curious to know what he originally intended.

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2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

C'mon, the Leto Joker is terrible.  Maybe not in general motivation, but look and presentation. 

Also I seem to recall reading he felt the need to become a total pyscho to embody the role, mailing his co-stars used condoms and stuff. So yeah fuck him and his terrible performance. 

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5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

C'mon, the Leto Joker is terrible.  Maybe not in general motivation, but look and presentation. 

Mind you, my 10 year old, who had not watched the movie, but watches a lot of YouTube videos of some film theory" guy, is convinced that the Leto Joker is actually the Tim Drake Robin, who we're supposed to think is dead based on clues from BvS...

Your ten year old is wrong. It's definitely Dick Grayson and he's definitely dead.

4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I feel like I missed a meeting on why everyone cares about this Snyder cut. Why exactly do we think it’ll be significantly better?

 

4 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

It is a mystery.  No idea.  There really isn't any saving of that film.

It seems to me that there's near-universal consensus that the ultimate cut of BvS is better than the theatrical release.  The theatrical version being the result of a late studio mandate that the runtime be shortened by 30 minutes.  Even critics that didn't like either version concede the ultimate cut fixes a lot of the problems with the theatrical release.

My experience of BvS was a lot like my experience of Prometheus: a lot to like but ultimately disappointing. BvS felt like a movie that had parts cut out of it.  It isn't really flow so much as it lurched from one moment to the next and it was really frustrating to watch. Still, I thought the zeal the critical community showed in tearing that film down was way overdone. Unfortunately the studio reacted with a "course correction" that turned Suicide Squad into a random, jumbled mess and Justice League into a second tier Marvel movie. Even Wonder Woman, for all the praise, has its issues.

What they didn't realize was that BvS was gaining a following and this following was expecting a directors cut. That's why the #releasethesnydercut was trending worldwide on twitter two years after the JL release and has the highest social media activity of any WB film; a film that was never released.  

 

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I don't expect it to be a work of art or anything, and aren't likely to watch it on release, but given just how much of his movie was reportedly jetissoned - some reports have it at like 70% was scenes not filmed by him, right?- I'm just plain curious to know what he originally intended.

Not just footage but also score and story elements.  Victor Stone's mom and Iris West were excised, Victor and Silas Stones arcs were trimmed/changed The Russian Family was added, Darkseid removed, etc. The reshoots also gave us the "boob plant" gag which was recycled from Age of Ultron. Rumor has it that this was a particular point of friction between the cast and the production. There are even individual scenes where reshoot footage was used with original footage, indicated by Affleck's weight gain.

70% could be right.  Fabian Wagner (DoP) said maybe 10% was his, though he was probably exaggerating.  One commentator puts Snyders contribution at 40 minutes based on cinematography.  "Less than half" would be a good bet. It's all speculative.

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Also I seem to recall reading he felt the need to become a total pyscho to embody the role, mailing his co-stars used condoms and stuff. So yeah fuck him and his terrible performance. 

Yeah, Jared needed to pump the brakes on that noise.

One thing really doesn't have anything to do with the other does it? Legend has it that Faye Dunaway tossed a cup of her own urine into Polanksi's face to protest his policy on bathroom breaks. Supposedly this wasn't the only diva-like behavior on that set. Coppola made Apocalypse Now fueled entirely by a mountain of cannabis and his own raging megalomania. Brando's infamous lack of preparation was the least outrageous thing to happen on that set.  It doesn't really effect my opinion of those films.

I find it interesting though that, an entertainment press keen on spilling behind-the-scenes tea, is virtually silent on Ray Fisher's (Cyborg) recent allegations related to the JL reshoots.  There appear to be some camps that are prepared to take sides on this purely based on the past creative output of the people involved. That's not a jab at you, just a comment about narratives.

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4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

One thing really doesn't have anything to do with the other does it? Legend has it that Faye Dunaway tossed a cup of her own urine into Polanksi's face to protest his policy on bathroom breaks. Supposedly this wasn't the only diva-like behavior on that set. Coppola made Apocalypse Now fueled entirely by a mountain of cannabis and his own raging megalomania. Brando's infamous lack of preparation was the least outrageous thing to happen on that set.  It doesn't really effect my opinion of those films.

I've no problem separating the art from the artist, but it helps if the art is good. I love Chinatown despite knowing Polanski is a child rapist (and now that urine was weaponized on set.) 

I think it's a bit different though when the artist's terrible behavior is part of their process to produce that art, and then also that art is terrible. 

I guess you're right thought, one thing doesn't really have anything to do with the other. If Heath Ledger had pulled that shit I'd still love his performance, despite thinking he was a cunt. But Leto gave a terrible performance while being a cunt off screen. So if it helps you: fuck him, and then separately fuck his terrible performance. 

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5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

C'mon, the Leto Joker is terrible.  Maybe not in general motivation, but look and presentation. 

Mind you, my 10 year old, who had not watched the movie, but watches a lot of YouTube videos of some film theory" guy, is convinced that the Leto Joker is actually the Tim Drake Robin, who we're supposed to think is dead based on clues from BvS...

QFT.  I'll take the mess that was BVS and Suicide Squad, but there was absolutely nothing about this Joker character design that spoke to me and a whole lot that screamed "Pass!"  As much as I like what Margo Robbie has done with Harley Quinn, I have the same feeling about her character design and I harbor some substantial resentment for the way it has influenced the comics.  

That's a pretty cool theory, but head cannon for me would make it Jason and not Tim - Tim's too smart to get taken/transformed.  

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I've no problem separating the art from the artist, but it helps if the art is good. I love Chinatown despite knowing Polanski is a child rapist (and now that urine was weaponized on set.) 

I think it's a bit different though when the artist's terrible behavior is part of their process to produce that art, and then also that art is terrible. 

I guess you're right thought, one thing doesn't really have anything to do with the other. If Heath Ledger had pulled that shit I'd still love his performance, despite thinking he was a cunt. But Leto gave a terrible performance while being a cunt off screen. So if it helps you: fuck him, and then separately fuck his terrible performance. 

That's why I largely avoided the controversy about Captain Marvel until after I saw it.  In my more conspiratorial moments I think it might have been blown up to distract from how "meh" that movie was.

I disagree on Leto's performance.  I look forward to seeing more of it if Ayer's original cut of the film is ever released.

Where I draw the line on that stuff is Orson Scott Card.  Card has his views. They stand in opposition to mine, but that probably isn't much different than any other cinema, books, music I enjoy.  The difference with Card is that he dedicates a portion of his time, money and good name to promoting his views. Pass. (smash the beetles)

If you haven't read "Easy Riders Raging Bulls" I'd highly recommend it. It's amazing to me that some of those people even survived the 1970's.

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1 hour ago, hauberk said:

I have the same feeling about her character design and I harbor some substantial resentment for the way it has influenced the comics

 

What's the story here? I haven't seen any significant changes to Harley's look that weren't already in play before Suicide Squad but I'm not a dedicated HQ reader or anything.
 

If it's just abandoning the black-and-red motif which seems to be the major change, you'll be pleased to know that James Gunn appears to be bringing it back in his Suicide Squad. Although tbqh I like her completely random wardrobe in BoP.

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On 9/30/2020 at 3:06 AM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

If we're going to make assumptions about Fury's off-screen actions, can we assume he has intelligence on the second alien invasion of New York?  The one where Iron Man, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange are last seen headed toward a giant alien doughnut just before it leaves the earth.  He must also be aware that Thor is once again MIA, Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Vision, and Falcon are fugitives on the run.  The Avengers are effectively defunct at this point.

Bit of a late reply here so apologies in advance. I'm not entirely following your criticism here - are you saying its a plot hole or bad writing? I can certainly see why failing to page her in Avengers 1 can be seen as a plot hole and this criticism seemed to be a progression from that one so I thought you're saying this is also a plot hole, but this is the same movie that Fury ultimately pages her at the end of so it can't possibly be a Captain Marvel retrospective plot hole. If I'm misunderstanding and you're simply saying its bad writing then that's a different story and the criticism does make sense irrespective of whether I agree with it.

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

One thing really doesn't have anything to do with the other does it? Legend has it that Faye Dunaway tossed a cup of her own urine into Polanksi's face to protest his policy on bathroom breaks. Supposedly this wasn't the only diva-like behavior on that set. Coppola made Apocalypse Now fueled entirely by a mountain of cannabis and his own raging megalomania. Brando's infamous lack of preparation was the least outrageous thing to happen on that set.  It doesn't really effect my opinion of those films.

Surely a protest against workplace conditions doesn't belong in the same breath as an abusive coworker justifying the abuse as "part of the artistic process". The rest of the diva behaviour may apply, I just objected to that particular one as it falls under industrial relations. Leto's behaviour as Joker absolutely qualifies as sexual harassment pushing into assault, his coworkers shouldn't have to deal with someone behaving like that. So again I'm coming at it from the industrial relations angle rather than anything about the art.

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