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DCEU: Killer Clowns from Gotham City

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33 minutes ago, red snow said:

It's a bit of a troll move. Unless glitter doesn't get any of the money and it goes to a children's charity. At the very least they should be matching what they paid to use it for a charity.

As far as I know, he gets all the money from the use of his songs, which you'd assume wouldn't be much these days but apparently not.

Apparently it's also commonly used at American sporting events, so I'm assuming he's made a fortune off it over the years.

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2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Who is Gary Glitter? Sounds like a pedo.

Your assumption based on his name is correct. He was once best known as a glam rock singer who was very popular in the UK in the 1970s, but is now primarily known as a convicted paedophile.

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

As far as I know, he gets all the money from the use of his songs, which you'd assume wouldn't be much these days but apparently not.

I was just reading this Guardian story pointing out that the music industry being what it is many people make money from the song but he does get a percentage when it is used.

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On the bright side the money won't do him much good while in prison and given his age he hopefully never gets out.

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Joker was really very good, maybe expectations too high based on hype; but it was really far better than most ‘comic book’ movies going around right now. Possibly it was a little too grim and leaves a bad taste in your mouth but by the end I felt satisfied.

Of course a brilliant central performance that proves Phoenix is probably one of the best actors of our generation.

All the controversy seems totally overblown and manufactured for clicks. If the movie was anything I came out thinking it was a rant at Trump and populism, with Trump as the lunatic the mob hold up as a hero. But it’s all pretty ambiguous and I suspect there wasn’t any huge political subtext there, it’s just very funny to see reviewers getting worked up.

 

 

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My brother went and saw it in San Fran. Our exchange via text [verbatim]:

 

Friday, 5:17 PM

Him: I'm going to the Joker matinee tomorrow

Me: Bleargh

Me: I've resolved not to see it

Him: Purist

Me: Stay safe. DoD actually sent out a warning to service members because of incel chatter :p

Him: [finger emoji]

Him: I'll be on the look out [cry-laughing emoji] You can have all my stuff

Me: Haha  

 

Saturday, 7:08 PM

Him: Wow. Joker is dark

Me: I’m sure. An incel’s wet dream. Did they try to validate his psychopathy

Him: For sure

Me: So I don’t need to see it

Him: No one does

 

---

 

It’s very rare when my brother and I critically diverge on movies.

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What exactly is incel or alt-right promoting about this movie? Did I miss something? Arthur never expresses or hints at resentment towards women. The main reason for Arthur's descent is cut of public funding. The protests in the film are more akin to Occupy Wall Street than any right-wing movement.

Hardly things the alt-right would cream their pants over.

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37 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

What exactly is incel or alt-right promoting about this movie? Did I miss something? Arthur never expresses or hints at resentment towards women. The main reason for Arthur's descent is cut of public funding. The protests in the film are more akin to Occupy Wall Street than any right-wing movement.

Hardly things the alt-right would cream their pants over.

There really is nothing in the movie that makes it controversial in that way. It’s like the press just needed something to panic about.

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There really is nothing in the movie that makes it controversial in that way. It’s like the press just needed something to panic about.

They would NEVER do that!

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1 hour ago, The Monkey said:

What exactly is incel or alt-right promoting about this movie? Did I miss something? Arthur never expresses or hints at resentment towards women. The main reason for Arthur's descent is cut of public funding. The protests in the film are more akin to Occupy Wall Street than any right-wing movement.

Hardly things the alt-right would cream their pants over.

Maybe they identify with yet another white man being "let down" by society and becoming violent as a result.  I mean its not that difficult to see why young white cis men, like this kinds of movies. 

And you have the directors comments about "cancel culture", etc. 

And of course there is also the trope that mental illness makes you violent (if you are white). This is appart from the incel shit. Just wanted to point it out. 

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52 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

They would NEVER do that!

They are probably just warming up for the release of the next call of duty or "death stranding".

Still, WB must love all the imagined controversy. Saves them a lot on having to promote the film themselves.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Maybe they identify with yet another white man being "let down" by society and becoming violent as a result.  I mean its not that difficult to see why young white cis men, like this kinds of movies. 

And you have the directors comments about "cancel culture", etc. 

And of course there is also the trope that mental illness makes you violent (if you are white). This is appart from the incel shit. Just wanted to point it out. 

 

I don't hang at any online incel clubs [or whatever the fuck they are] so I'm kind of taking it at face value when the DoD says [yeah, I know] they've picked up a lot of heightened chatter and sent out their warning to service members.

I agree with Conflicting Thoughts though, and suspect, if true, that it's more about correlation as opposed to direct lines of comparison, ie: general sense of disenfranchisement, resentment, anger... do the math. Seems like a pretty common arc of radicalization between say, i. a conscripted terrorist ii. a white supremacist mass shooter iii. an incel committing various gestures/acts of hateful misogyny.

Just a matter of degree at that point, really.    

Edited by JEORDHl

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23 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

 

My brother went and saw it in San Fran. Our exchange via text [verbatim]:

 

It’s very rare when my brother and I critically diverge on movies.



Ha, something very similar for me. My brother saw it and reckons it's a great performance and well shot in places but otherwise derivative, bland, and bad on mental health.

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le sigh. 

 

I really like what a weirdo Phoenix is too. Oh well.  

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The incel "controversy" is absolute bullshit. Any violence for which AF/Joker is celebrated in the context of the movie is perpetrated exclusively against rich, white males. This movie is concerned almost to a fault with class warfare, which I'm pretty sure isn't high on the incel concerns list. Also, incels don't need a fucking mainstream comic book movie to encourage them to perpetrate violence; they have plenty of other material to incite them.

Also, as someone who deals with mental health issues, I did not mind at all their treatment of his mental illness in the movie. There's one part, seen in the trailer, where he writes something like "The funny part of having a mental illness is that everyone expects you to act like you don't." Which is, yeah, pretty fucking spot on. And it's clearly depicted that he is failed by a system that he was at least marginally benefitting from.

I was a little disappointed that the supporting characters weren't more fleshed out, but I suppose that makes sense from a creative standpoint given his disorder. But Phoenix gives an amazing performance.

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41 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

The incel "controversy" is absolute bullshit. Any violence for which AF/Joker is celebrated in the context of the movie is perpetrated exclusively against rich, white males. This movie is concerned almost to a fault with class warfare, which I'm pretty sure isn't high on the incel concerns list. Also, incels don't need a fucking mainstream comic book movie to encourage them to perpetrate violence; they have plenty of other material to incite them.

Lol, good point! 
 

I think what is annoying some people is that the movie doesn’t really have very much to say politically and it’s mostly pretty ambiguous in its themes. Joker even states at one point that he doesn’t care about politics. So instead there is a massive gulf for people to insert their own crappy politics onto the movie and make it about what they want to see.

The mental health issue was also interesting because again it was mostly ambiguous as to what it was saying. Did the budget cuts to health services cause his deteriorating mental health? Maybe but then it’s shown they had little effect anyway. There are also a bunch of reasons thrown out to why Arthur is the way he is, none of it is clear. 

8 hours ago, polishgenius said:



Ha, something very similar for me. My brother saw it and reckons it's a great performance and well shot in places but otherwise derivative, bland, and bad on mental health.

What is he comparing it to though? In a genre almost entirely made up of bland derivative movies, Joker at least is doing something different. It’s far from a perfect movie and I’m not sure I’d want to see it twice, but I’d applaud its being made over 20 forgettable Marvel movies.

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6 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I don’t know if I would call this a mainstream comic book movie, though I have not seen it.

No, it’s not, in that it doesn’t just follow the standard template most comic book movies follow. It’s an attempt to make a serious grown up movie about a comic book character. It doesn’t always succeed but at least it doesn’t have a huge boss battle at the end ( spoilers )

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I suspect the movie being critical toward the media might explain some of the beatup. 

It helped turn Arthur into the Joker by 1) not caring about him or the problems of people like him until he lashed out, 2) politicising his murders and turning him into a symbol to boost ratings, 3) repeatedly humiliating him for being a weird failure before he had done anything to deserve it. It convinced him that the only way to feel better about himself was to lash out, and made him angry enough to do it. 

So that, poor mental health funding and a general lack of empathy from others were all on blast. 

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26 minutes ago, The Drunkard said:

I suspect the movie being critical toward the media might explain some of the beatup. 

It helped turn Arthur into the Joker by 1) not caring about him or the problems of people like him until he lashed out, 2) politicising his murders and turning him into a symbol to boost ratings, 3) repeatedly humiliating him for being a weird failure before he had done anything to deserve it. It convinced him that the only way to feel better about himself was to lash out, and made him angry enough to do it. 

So that, poor mental health funding and a general lack of empathy from others were all on blast. 

Sure there was an angle about the media, but I think it was quite broad and I'd be surprised if anyone in the media took offence to it. Then you'd find any movie that was critical of the media getting bad reviews. 

Really I think it just comes down to clickbait. You need to find an angle for a review these days if you want it to be shared, so sticking some half baked sociology 101 theories into your opinion is hopefully going to cause a few more likes and shares. Its hard to find movie reviews these days that don't try and crowbar some wider societal crap on top, so i appreciate the ones that concentrate on the quality of the movie.
 

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