Jump to content

What exactly is the point of Quentyn?

Recommended Posts

When I read ADWD the first time I found his existence very frustrating. On top of the fact he does nothing interesting in the slightest, he isn't even an interesting character himself. Literally the most remarkable aspect about him is that he's so boring that's how he's described in the narrative on multiple occasions. The second time I read ADWD, I found myself totally puzzled by his existence as a character with a POV. He has nothing to add to the plot, nothing to add to the cast of characters - all of which are infinitely more interesting than him -, nothing to even really offer Daenerys as is made plain when they finally meet.

I suppose one could argue he is useful as a way to add to the worldbuilding, but what little his chapters added could have been dripped in through other characters' chapters, and anyway what we learn from him is hardly consequential at all. I suppose we can also argue that he is indirectly responsible for connecting the Tattered Prince with Daenerys' cause, but this could also have been done better and less painfully through other means. That said, even if it couldn't it certainly doesn't warrant him a POV. In fact, if Quentyn had only been introduced when Daenerys met him - only through her POV, without a POV of his own  -, the book would have been shorter and perhaps even improved by it.

Was I alone in feeling, from the second I began reading his chapters, that he would have very little impact on the narrative, and was therefore not even remotely interested when he finally died? It just felt like a massive waste of my time to read through his chapters, like he was the literal embodiment of unnecessary filler. What do you think is the point of him existing in the story at all?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, grimBlue said:

Was I alone in feeling, from the second I began reading his chapters, that he would have very little impact on the narrative, and was therefore not even remotely interested when he finally died? It just felt like a massive waste of my time to read through his chapters, like he was the literal embodiment of unnecessary filler. What do you think is the point of him existing in the story at all?

GRRM and his editors clearly disagree.
I would say its too early to tell what influence a character introduced in the 5th book of 7 will have on the plot etc. I think we'll have a better idea after the 6th or 7th book. 
You could equally argue what the point was of Robb, or the petty warring of the War of the 5 Kings - if you think the main story is about the living vs the Others etc. All that stuff happened in books 1-3, far removed from books 6-7.

Things of interest that we can see already introduced or developed through Quentyn's chapters:
Martell's fierce, long, and continued support for the Targaryens.
The way Doran plans, long term, hidden and secret, especially the secretly planned marriage of Arriane and Viserys, and how that affected current events.
A look at some of the internal politics of Dorne which may become relevant.
Dragon's blood, or not, being relevant around dragons (and for looks).
Dany's character development - we see things through Quentyns side we don't see from other perspectives.
Some more of Dany's early history, stuff she's not aware of or doesn't understand.

There is probably more, and possibly more consequences to play out yet too.

Each to his own, but I think you judge too hastily, and possibly don't see all the connections yet either.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ser Gerris will return to Dorne singing this tune.


Ser Archibald, the big bald one, had nothing to say. He sat on the edge of his pallet, staring down at his bandaged hands in their linen wrappings. Ser Gerris punched a wall. "I told him it was folly. I begged him to go home. Your bitch of a queen had no use for him, any man could see that. He crossed the world to offer her his love and fealty, and she laughed in his face."

"She never laughed," said Selmy. "If you knew her, you would know that."

"She spurned him. He offered her his heart, and she threw it back at him and went off to fuck her sellsword."

And Arianne will marry Aegon and Dorne will be Dany's greatest foe during the Dance and in the aftermath during her rule. It will be a large part in the downfall of her rule.

Quentyn came to Dany to give her Dorne. Dorne could have, should have, would have have been hers, but instead will be her most bitter enemy. Quentyn is primarily a plot device in Dany's arc, a failure of judgement.

Lets watch and see if someone Jon doesn't particularly fancy comes offering an alliance that while not very beneficial at that particular point in time, would prove to be so in the endgame, or at least a very bad enemy to have, and see if Jon doesn't react with more care.

Edited by chrisdaw

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

He also released the dragons, now terrorizing Meereen, burning down the pyramids and all those within them. 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you noticed that beginning with AFFC that GRRM starting giving titles to some of the chapters? I believe these chapters are what I refer to as "inversion" chapters. They tell two stories with one hidden among the parallels, symbolism, and metaphors. I believe there is a wheel of time at play in the story which is mentioned a couple times as the "dragon eating its own tail". There are other instances where characters note that history repeats itself, and that certain characters are "reborn". 

Part of my theory includes a reset of the wheel of time during the tourney at Harrenhal and the Year of the False Spring. For reasons not fully understood, it was reset to repeat "winter". Later when Daenerys hatched her dragon eggs in Drogo's funeral pyre, she actually "broke" the wheel and it flipped on its side and turned upside down. West became east and the north is upside down. Two characters mention this reverse reality: Patchface has repeatedly said the north is upside down and under water, and Quaithe has tried to inform Daenerys how to navigate by going east to go west and north to go south.

Quentyn makes some notable appearances in several titled chapters including: The Soiled Knight, The Queenmaker, The Princess in the Tower, The Merchant's Man, The Windblown, The Watcher, a couple Daenerys chapters VII and VIII, The Discarded Knight, The Spurned Suitor, and finally he meets  his demise in The Dragontamer. That's actually a large number of inversion chapters for such a "boring" character! I'm slowly making my way through the inversion chapters and have deciphered the first nine - I'm not quite finished with both The Reaver and Cat of the Canals, but I have taken notice that Quentyn and Young Griff are two halves of the "male side" of the next Dance of the Dragons against Daenerys. The first Dance of the Dragons was between Viserys I's eldest and only child with his first wife - Rhaenyra. He wanted her to be his heir over his first son Aegon II, born by his second wife. The novella, The Princess and the Queen tells most of this tale.

When Rhaenyra lost the Dance of the Dragons, Aegon II fed her to his dragon Sunfyre. This event of the wheel of time has already been played out with Quentyn, because he was the sun's son and he was set on fire.

Other than the manner of Quentyn's death (burned) and how it was the reverse of Rhaenyra (not eaten, and a male challenger), there are other clues that he and the other Martells are "players in new positions" on the wheel of time. Arianne and Doran are very much a repeat of Cersei and Tywin. Doran's gout is a physical manifestation of Tywin's internal anger and desire for revenge. Cersei is Tywin's first born child. She was born with Jaime holding onto her heel. Even though she became queen, she always wanted Tywin to name her heir of Casterly Rock. Likewise, Arianne IS Doran's heir, but she was so unsure that her father would follow through that she arranged the kidnapping plot of Myrcella in order to force a war with the crown. She knew the Dornish people were itching for a fight. They were still angry over the deaths of Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon, and Arianne was capitalizing on that anger for her own selfish reasons. She wanted to overthrow her father and become princess over all of Dorne. 

There are several female characters who are their father's eldest child, but were/are passed over in favor of son. It's just one historical event that keeps repeating, but depending upon where these women live will determine if they are successful or not. Asha Greyjoy is also replaying Rhaenyra-is-father's-choice-for-heir event, but unfortunately the Greyjoys are repeating the Targaryens and Blackfyres - not likely to succeed, whereas Arianne is repeating the success of the Lannisters. I have to admit though, that their fortunes may be reversed because of how the wheel got flipped. Asha might be the successful one and Arianne might fail.

The wheel of time is a powerful force that inflicts "it's will" upon the people of Westeros. I say "it's will", but it doesn't have feelings or it's own agenda. It's more like a force of nature and you cannot prevent or stop nature from following it's course. It's how Daenerys "knew" what to do to get the eggs to hatch and why Jon has overwhelming feelings of desire to "have" Winterfell. 

Of course all of this is difficult for me to prove easily. You can read some of my analysis over on HoBaW and decide for yourself if what I'm saying is true.

So why is all this happening? Are you a Marvel Dr Strange fan? Recall that Dr Strange used the Eye of Agamotto to defeat Dormammu. He put time into a continual loop so that if Dormammu killed him he'd come back to life and try again. Dormammu gets frustrated and goes away leaving Dr Strange and the rest of Earth alive. I think somewhere back in time when the Last Hero asked the Children to "help" him they too placed time into a continual loop and then locked the door to magic in the Wall. It explains the delayed seasons and why there are so many repeats and parallels. 

Edited by Feather Crystal

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now