Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance (spoilers)

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

6 hours ago, red snow said:

The younger generation have no taste. My youngest brother only gave the show 5 minutes before deciding it was a bit too childish for him

Only the first five minutes? It's just two gelflings "dreamfasting" with each other on a moonlit night. 

[red snow]

8 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Only the first five minutes? It's just two gelflings "dreamfasting" with each other on a moonlit night. 

He didn't make it that far even. The skeksis were an instant turn off for him

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

3 hours ago, Triskele said:

@Matrim Fox Cauthon - If you don't mind me inquiring, how are you so wise in this stuff?

The whole naming convention (eg, skekMal, SkekSo, SkekTek,et...)

...absolutely missed it in the film....was it a thing of the books? 

When Emperor wanted Hunter back he wasn't fucking around ,,,,

The Dark Crystal was probably one of my favorite childhood films. SkekZok the Ritual-Master was probably my favorite skeksis, and there was even a time on this forum when I used SkekZok as my avatar until others requested the return of the familiar Communist Firefox avatar. 

Around the time that the film was initially released, they released a book The World of the Dark Crystal that delved into the background lore of the film. (Don't own the book, but someone had a now defunct fan site that uploaded the info.) That's where we learned about the names of the skeksis and urRu, the urSkeks, Aughra's origins, a bit more about the gelflings, and a variety of other things. In the film, the skeksis are mostly addressed by their titles. By the time that the series rolled around, there were a number of comics that used their actual names. I have grown in the habit of thinking about (most of) them in terms of their names. 

IMO, Emperor SkekSo is fundamentally not concerned about SkekMal. The subtext that I got about SkekSo is that he deeply fears his own mortality. He was not hoping to revive SkekMal for the sake of SkekMal, but because it selfishly gave him hope about his own fears about dying. His fear of death and loss of power motivates most of his actions in the series. This is a fairly significant point of contrast with his counterpart among the mystics: urSu (wisest of the mystics and the one who raised Jen). One of the things that we learn from The World of the Dark Crystal book is that urSu chose to embrace death so that Emperor SkekSo would die, because his death would destabilize the unity of the skeksis, which would allow Jen to fulfill his quest to restore the Crystal. So while the Darkening is deteriorating the health of the Emperor, he probably would have been able to survive to the next Great Conjunction had urSu not chosen to die. 

[Astromech]

10 hours ago, Triskele said:

@Matrim Fox Cauthon - If you don't mind me inquiring, how are you so wise in this stuff?

The whole naming convention (eg, skekMal, SkekSo, SkekTek,et...)

...absolutely missed it in the film....was it a thing of the books? 

When Emperor wanted Hunter back he wasn't fucking around ,,,,

I had the same question and googled skeksis and came across the fandom wiki. Not sure how accurate it is. https://darkcrystal.fandom.com/wiki/Skeksis

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

DarkCrystal.com also has a pretty good encyclopedic overview of the setting, history, characters, world, creatures, etc. 

[SpaceChampion]

After watching the series I rewatched the movie and noticed in one scene where Jen and Kira go to the Gelfling ruins to read the prophesy, there are carved images of three or four people of the various Gelfling clans. looking pretty much similar to how they look in the series decades later.  Glad they kept that consistent, and thought the backstory all out way back then.

[Heartofice]

Finished the series now. Hard to know what I think.

It started off pretty well and by the midpoint I was considering whether this was one of my favourite ever fantasy seasons and wondering if I was just being forgiving out of nostalgia.

But I think the show took a series of strange and silly mis steps that made the whole thing feel like it hadn’t been thought through and didn’t tend to make a lot of sense.

The whole rebellion angle was pretty weak by the end. The problem being that trying to have a battle with Gelfling and Skeksis is always going to be underwhelming, as neither are designed for combat. Plus there was so few of them so it always felt flat.

Not sure they ever really got across why Skeksis should be so all powerful when they almost always are so full of weaknesses. Maybe it was all just trick of propaganda but the story still tried to make it seem like there was a reason everyone should be scared of them.

Never understood why the Mystics didn’t just all commit suicide anyway if they are so worried about the Skeksis

Overall I really enjoyed most of the show, loved that they kept the look of the movie and improved it. Let’s be honest the movie was always deeply flawed anyway so this was a lot better 

[Luzifer's right hand]

I finished it today and enjoyed it alot. 

Poor Gruenaks though. 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

19 hours ago, Heartofice said:

(1) The whole rebellion angle was pretty weak by the end. The problem being that trying to have a battle with Gelfling and Skeksis is always going to be underwhelming, as neither are designed for combat. Plus there was so few of them so it always felt flat.

(2) Not sure they ever really got across why Skeksis should be so all powerful when they almost always are so full of weaknesses. Maybe it was all just trick of propaganda but the story still tried to make it seem like there was a reason everyone should be scared of them.

(3) Never understood why the Mystics didn’t just all commit suicide anyway if they are so worried about the Skeksis

I may be able to address some of those questions, HeartofIce. This is not to invalidate your impressions, but to offer my own take on these issues.

(1) I think that SkekMal shows that the skeksis had far more potential regarding their combat prowess had they not given into sloth and decadence. This is something that Aughra points out when she confronts the skeksis in their hot baths, that their physiques had become both withered and bloated at once. That said, the skeksis are still physically imposing when compared to the gelflings. The few skeksis that were at the Castle managed to overtake the entirety of gelfling castle guards without breaking a sweat so they are not slouches, though I do agree that the SkekUng-Rian fight was somewhat underwhelming in terms of SkekUng's combat performance. But he is the General ("the Ambassador" in prior sources) and not necessarily the Warrior.

(2) There are several things here. The Skeksis are one-half of the urSkeks, who were quite powerful and intelligent creatures, and the skeksis did indeed inherit a lot of that power. The skeksis are power and unbridled action inhibited by wickedness and a lack of tempering wisdom. The urRu are goodness and wisdom inhibited by powerlessness and passivity. Despite all their shortcomings (e.g., paranoia, wickedness, etc.) the skeksis are exceptionally clever and powerful creatures. I believe that there are even staements in books that indicate that had the skeksis overcome their own in-fighting politics and wickedness, they could have potentially created a more powerful crystal than the Crystal of Truth. And part of their power was also their propaganda machine in action. They were the designated custodians of the Crystal. They created the Alliance of the Crystal to preserve their power, by creating a tiered society in which the gelflings were made "co-custodians" of the Crystal through their service to the gelflings. The skeksis had outlived how many generations of gelfling? The skeksis had produced how many mechanical wonders? The skeksis had conquered how many lands and put down how many revolts? So some of their power was real while many parts were exaggerated behind a smiling mask.

(3) At think that it boils down to the fact that the urRu still possess a basic desire to reunite with their other halves and be restored to wholeness. Plus, the urRu kinda sort of know when they will meet their end. We are told this about urUtt the Weaver:

Quote

The blanket coats of all the urRu were made by urUtt the Weaver. He created very delicate work from his thick fingers. Each coat was a record of its wearer's thought and fate, with spirals that were also a comment on his past life and that controlled his dreams. At an urRu's last breath, the coat became as delicate and transparent as gossamer, then collapsed as the body beneath it vanished and the thoughts within its weaving were released.

We also have this statement from urVa the Archer, which is similar to a statement that urGoh the Wanderer made in DC: Creation Myths vol. 3: "We do not get to decide when our part in the song is finished." It may seem that by willfully falling off a cliff that urVa did decide that but I'm not sure if that is how the mystics see things. Aughra had warned urVa that his destiny would end by confronting the Hunter, which he did. And it should have ended there had Aughra not sacrificed herself. But I also think that is why urVa ultimately sacrificed himself: the restoration of Aughra (and balance) rather than worrying about the skeksis.

But these are my readings and I have prattled far too much.

[SpaceChampion]

12 hours ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

 though I do agree that the SkekUng-Rian fight was somewhat underwhelming in terms of SkekUng's combat performance. But he is the General ("the Ambassador" in prior sources) and not necessarily the Warrior.

SkekUng isn't in the series thus far.  The General is SkekVar.

[SpaceChampion]

Well, the UrRu/Skeksis duality is obviously an allegory / personification of the Jungian conscious / unconscious duality (or the ego / id)  One cannot exist without the other.  The goal is reintegration of the conscious self with the unconscious, and to develop the superego -- represented by the UrSkeks. 

With the Garthim revealed to be a grisly Frankenstein combination of the Gruenaks and the Arathim, they're leaning on the theme of duality even more but in the opposite way.  The Garthim aren't representatives of life and freedom, but death and slavery.

[SpaceChampion]

13 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Gruenaks and Arathim?  Is this more stuff from the books?   

ETA;  oh, one of those is the spider clan that switched sides?  

I haven't read the books; but yes, Arathim are the spiders.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

6 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

SkekUng isn't in the series thus far.  The General is SkekVar.

Oops. I meant SkekVar.

[Astromech]

6 hours ago, Triskele said:

Gruenaks and Arathim?  Is this more stuff from the books?   

ETA;  oh, one of those is the spider clan that switched sides?  

The spiders and the two assistants/slaves of the Scientist who had their mouths stitched shut. They were combined to make the Garthim super soldiers.

[red snow]

I watched episode 1 on my own and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was like an eye massage and the detail to the design, sets and vehicles was fury road good. 

The Voice cast is strong particularly regarding the skeksis. I was surprised how good pegg was at imitating the original chancellor voice.

I like how the skeksis aren't thoroughly evil at first. It's more greed that drives them. Not sure from episode one what they bring to the table in terms of what possible benefit they provided that allowed them to become rulers but i guess it good be extreme satire on how the 1%/monarchy don't add anything.

Only minor complaint is the puppetry can't avoid "above the waist" float walking which is ever so slightly distracting. 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

I like how the skeksis aren't thoroughly evil at first. It's more greed that drives them. Not sure from episode one what they bring to the table in terms of what possible benefit they provided that allowed them to become rulers but i guess it good be extreme satire on how the 1%/monarchy don't add anything.

TL;DR They are cunning and powerful. They lied. They cheated. They manufactured crises. They escalated tensions and created divisions.

The skeksis have effectively been rulers for the past 900 years/trine, which allows mass manipulation and gaslighting on a generational scale.

[Corvinus85]

The one thing the Skesis definitely are shown to be good at is works of engineering. Sure the Scientist does most of that, but the others have various capabilities, too. This clearly comes from the urSkeks.

hmm, I wonder if the splits of Skeksis and Mystics isn't just on the characters side (evil/good) but also in their capabilities. The Mystics, as the name suggests, are maybe more focused on the spiritual side, while the Skeksis are focused on the material side. 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

6 hours ago, Triskele said:

Does it tell us anywhere why exactly the urSkeks that came to Thra got sent away?  I found some general stuff about them being heretics or not towing the collectivist line but nothing more specific than that, and with it being 18 of them it makes it seem like it was a nascent political movement or mutiny or something.  

Nothing concrete, only in generalities that vary between sources: impure, heretics, and proposed misuse of their world's Crystal. The urSkeks were exceptionally discrete about their origins and crimes. Some of the truth only came out around the time of the Second Great Conjunction, when they attempted to purify themselves with the Crystal, and then vague statements shortly after they reunified (and left) as part of the Third Great Conjunction.

This also reminds me, there is one thing that I am curious about whether the show will answer: do the skeksis/urRu "return" to Thra when they die despite not originally being from Thra? There are some statements in the series that suggest they would not and some that they are afraid because of their own ignorance of this answer, but then there is also Aughra's reaction to Jen in the film saying that his master, wisest of the mystics urSu is dead: "Could be anywhere then."

[Corvinus85]

No show or movie is complete without a blooper reel.

 

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

6 hours ago, Triskele said:

Awesome feedback, MFC, thank you so much.  

Intriguing comments by @Corvinus on skeks v. urs.  I feel like it's fairly prescient with our times right now as we're sort of in an age where we marvel at tech and engineering but also are horrified by it.  Pretty cool that Henson et al came up with this...dualism? back then.  

ETA:  Or is "dichotomy" a better choice than dualism?  not sure

It was the late'70s and early '80s. I suspect that Jim Henson was influenced by a lot of New Age stuff for his film, as well as Euro-Americanized Taoism. Dualism seems to work. Two halves of a whole, separated in imbalance, resulting in the imbalance of all things around them.