US Politics: Flaming the Flamenco Flamingo

[Toth]

18 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:

Trump is going after the homeless and putting them in concentration camps as well. We’re fine.

 

 

Wonderful. I just looked up that the Star Trek episode depicting the US doing exactly that takes place in 2024...

[Bonnot OG]

you know this is gonna happen like this.

[Maithanet]

I was thinking about Biden's enduring appeal, and I came up with something that has probably been written elsewhere but I haven't seen it.  Here's my theory for why so many Democrats seem to prefer Biden:

Democrats are scared and threatened by Trump.  A lot of them want the President to make them feel safe, and to not have to think about politics too much.  If that's what you're looking for, Biden's familiarity and centrism is a feature, not a bug, because he's promising Obama 3.0, and that sounds just great. 

The question is whether Biden-in-reality, you know, the stumbling 76 year old man with foot-in-mouth problems lives up to Biden-in-theory.  Thus far it is holding up, but I think that most of his supporters aren't paying that much attention yet, and might be unhappy with what they see when they do.  But expecting his support to evaporate before 2020 even starts seems unlikely.  For really plugged in Democratic voters it feels like the primary is almost a year old, but to a lot of people it's barely started. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

On 9/11/2019 at 8:32 AM, Martell Spy said:

California Passes Ride-Share Bill That Could Upend the Gig Economy

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/california-ride-share-bill-gig-economy-uber-lyft-contractor-employee.html

 

The impact of the bill extends beyond app-based contractors, as the New York Times notes, many low-wage workers have been pushed from the employment roll into contractor status, including, janitors, nail salon workers, and construction workers.

 

"Bravo to Cali"s leadership on this. Michigan also has a Task Force investigating employers abusing the employment laws by masking its employees under the guise that they are "contractors" which of course they use to absolve themselves of following any labor standards.

If employers are able to make up fairy tale classifications for its employees, to avoid any responsibilities, shouldn't employees everywhere then be free to make up fairy tale terms to describe their employers? One could just make up their own favorable deal to get out of income taxes, just claim "no those aren't wages, those checks every week were loans, that's not my employer, I classify them as a bank( out of thin air)'???"

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The question is whether Biden-in-reality, you know, the stumbling 76 year old man with foot-in-mouth problems lives up to Biden-in-theory.  

I’m not sure his gaffes will matter like they have in the past. They’ve almost become a lovable quirk of his, and they sure as hell won’t matter if he faces Trump in the General.

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Who is making a "big issue" of it? I went to a few media sites (CNN, Nytimes, WaPo) and the top stories were things like the 9/11 anniversary, the North Carolina election, Brexit, and Bolton's firing. Nothing about Epstein.

So I searched for "Epstein" and hit the News tab. I got one story from the New York Post about Epstein staffers posting selfies with celebrities. That's the big deal you say is characteristic of the "moron media"? Do you habitually gin up dumb, misleading stories about what The Media is posting? Are you angling for a Breitbart column?

I found businessinsider and buzzfeed articles, plus a couple of lesser websites.
It's kinda funny that the buzzfeed article talks of "masters of the universe" because I'm pretty sure I've seen the same expression in Breitbart articles. Noam Chomsky also uses it regularly, as a variation of Adam Smith's "masters of mankind" line in Wealth of Nations IIRC.

The "big issue" is trying to show that the elite, the top 1% (or 0,1%) were all connected to Epstein, a known pervert and provider of underage prostitutes. Of course, it works on guilt by association: we have no way of being certain that Bezos, Musk, or Gates knew what kind of service Epstein was providing, and even less if they could have ensured he was no longer invited. In fact, given how such celebrities are careful about their image, it kinda shows they were in fact probably not aware of who Epstein was.
On the face of it, you'd think this was a rejection of capitalism's and capitalists' supposed virtues and ethics (see: Weber) but ironically enough, questioning the morality of the most successful capitalists may often be a way of not questioning capitalism itself.

[Ormond]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm well aware that the dissonance/discomfort then needs to be resolved - I'm not teaching the concept on this board, just writing in shorthand to emphasize the process is very prevalent among evangelicals.  I wouldn't say evangelicals do not experience cognitive dissonance - in fact many of them are converts hence the term "born again" - but rather the church specifically trains them to resolve any contradictory beliefs.  After all, as the saying goes, there's no zealot like a convert.

I never meant to imply that evangelicals or anyone else never experiences dissonance about anything.

I do think you misunderstand the use of the word "convert" or "conversion" in Evangelical circles, though. Many evangelical Protestants (especially the Pentecostals) expect everyone who is a Christian to have an emotional conversion experience whether they have been raised in the church or not. Being "born again" doesn't necessarily mean you have converted to an evangelical denomination from some other religion (or non-religion). All those who grow up in the church are also expected to have a "born again conversion experience."

There are some evangelicals of the Campus Crusade for Christ stripe who don't think the individual conversion experience has to be emotional but think one is "born again" just by an intellectual acceptance of basic evangelical beliefs. But they still would believe that everyone whether they are raised in the church or not has to make an individual "decision for Christ" which would be their moment of "conversion."

[Larry of the Lawn]

5 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

California Passes Ride-Share Bill That Could Upend the Gig Economy

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/california-ride-share-bill-gig-economy-uber-lyft-contractor-employee.html

 

Glad someone is doing something about this.  In the Northeast, the residential, non-union (outside Boston and NYC metro areas) construction (for example, any company working on your house) has operated this way.  They have no employees, only the owner and subcontractors.  Those guys wearing the company t-shirts are subs and get 1099-ed.  That means they are have no taxes taken out of their pay, are responsible for their own shit. Except they generally are paid hourly and have to be at work at a certain time and aren't actually their own bosses.  

This saves their employers massive amounts of money on workers comp, health insurance, etc.  

Glad that shit like Uber and Lyft are actually calling attention to this mass exploitation.  And don't even get me started on seasonal and agricultural labor law 

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Ormond said:

But they still would believe that everyone whether they are raised in the church or not has to make an individual "decision for Christ" which would be their moment of "conversion."

Well sure, this is partly what I was alluding to.  Also just in my own experience a lot of evangelicals did literally convert - usually from other Christian denominations, although I had one friend in high school who went from annoyingly ardent atheist to annoyingly ardent pentecostal.

[Ormond]

Just now, DMC said:

Well sure, this is partly what I was alluding to.  Also just in my own experience a lot of evangelicals did literally convert - usually from other Christian denominations, although I had one friend in high school who went from annoyingly ardent atheist to annoyingly ardent pentecostal.

Psychologically that's not a surprise to me at all --- very dogmatic people who come to see a flaw in their original "side" often flip completely to the "other side" in both religion and politics. They really have not changed their belief structure -- they've just flipped their opinion about which "side" is the "good guys" and which is the "bad guys."

[HexMachina]

30 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Glad someone is doing something about this.  In the Northeast, the residential, non-union (outside Boston and NYC metro areas) construction (for example, any company working on your house) has operated this way.  They have no employees, only the owner and subcontractors.  Those guys wearing the company t-shirts are subs and get 1099-ed.  That means they are have no taxes taken out of their pay, are responsible for their own shit. Except they generally are paid hourly and have to be at work at a certain time and aren't actually their own bosses.  

This saves their employers massive amounts of money on workers comp, health insurance, etc.  

Glad that shit like Uber and Lyft are actually calling attention to this mass exploitation.  And don't even get me started on seasonal and agricultural labor law 

Pleased to see it too. UK also needs reform in this area (but lol, have a read of the toothless “Good Work Plan” and good luck getting anything through Parliament pending Brexit) but out Courts at least have been fairly good at defending worker rights. The big case is being fought with Uber, who are at the last stage of appeal after some pretty scathing judgments against them. Reasonably optimistic the Supreme Court will bat them down too

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m not sure his gaffes will matter like they have in the past. They’ve almost become a lovable quirk of his, and they sure as hell won’t matter if he faces Trump in the General.

It's not the misspeaking or the exaggerations or the untrue boasting that will undo Biden in the general election.  It's the false equivalence that will be created between Jimmy and Hunter Biden's swampish activities and Trump's own behavior.

 

[DMC]

Biden's problems in the general have been pretty manifest from the get-go.  First, he does not generate excitement, which means he's just as likely to experience the turnout issue that plagued Hillary - particularly with African American turnout in the Big 3 states they need to flip back.  Second, his current coalition consists of older and less educated/politically aware voters.  He's not particularly well liked with younger and well-educated/politically aware voters.  These are the voters that went third party at very high rates in 2016, and in turn are responsible for Hillary winning the popular but losing the EC.

[sologdin]

questioning the morality of the most successful capitalists may often be a way of not questioning capitalism itself.

quite correct. it's an ineffective critique of a system that examines only deviations from the system's rules, a critique of 'corruption' or 'degeneration' or other biological metaphors of which the rightwing is fond. a fortiori, the critique is ineffective that focuses on a nebulous morality. it's all low-hanging fruit.  

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, Triskele said:

Yeah, that's a terrifying little tweet and all too easy to imagine.  Also terrifying to think how much SCOTUS feels only barely like it's not completely lost because RBG fights on and Roberts turns out to be swing-votish.  

This is just one poll, but all of the sudden Warren is tied with Biden.  If a bit more of this shows up does Biden then start to lose support because he's put so much on his inevitability as his argument for being the nominee?  

Yet, every blatherer on public radio today has carefully, cheerfully, explained that Elizabeth Warren is turning off Dem voters, and only Biden can beat the drum.

I am leaning strongly to a theory that Elizabeth Warren is going to keep doing better and better and ever increase her likelihood of beating the RBBIC the longer the so-called 'left' and 'main stream' media ignore her.  Please, NPR, don't even notice EW, don't mention her name!

 

 

 

[Bonnot OG]

totally not a fascist looking to stay in power 

[Week]

He's a fucking troll and cowardly bully that backs down at any concerted pushback. There are half a million legitimate crises that he's created and I don't believe this is one of them.

For starters, let's make it to 2024 after a legitimate election first. If the GOP choose to back Cheeto Mussolini in 2024 then that's the bed they've made and will suffer for 

[Jace, Extat]

31 minutes ago, Week said:

He's a fucking troll and cowardly bully that backs down at any concerted pushback. There are half a million legitimate crises that he's created and I don't believe this is one of them.

For starters, let's make it to 2024 after a legitimate election first. If the GOP choose to back Cheeto Mussolini in 2024 then that's the bed they've made and will suffer for 

What exactly would be the suffering?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It's not the misspeaking or the exaggerations or the untrue boasting that will undo Biden in the general election.  It's the false equivalence that will be created between Jimmy and Hunter Biden's swampish activities and Trump's own behavior.

 

I don't think that will matter. A majority of Americans dislike this president. A poor campaign infrastructure would hurt Biden more than any of that. Too many people forget that that also badly undercut Hillary.

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Biden's problems in the general have been pretty manifest from the get-go.  First, he does not generate excitement, which means he's just as likely to experience the turnout issue that plagued Hillary - particularly with African American turnout in the Big 3 states they need to flip back.  Second, his current coalition consists of older and less educated/politically aware voters.  He's not particularly well liked with younger and well-educated/politically aware voters.  These are the voters that went third party at very high rates in 2016, and in turn are responsible for Hillary winning the popular but losing the EC.

I agree that he's not all that exciting, but I'm not sure if that will play out like it did with Hillary. He's a lot more likable and way better at retail politics, and he still enjoys strong support from the AA community. His problem will be, as you stated, young people. Hopefully our cohorts get their heads out of their a***s and realize that four more years of Trump could do crippling damage to our generation. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

What exactly would be the suffering?

Being sentenced to be plebs in Jaceland?