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US Politics: Flaming the Flamenco Flamingo


Fragile Bird

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12 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:

Yang seriously sucks. Sucks so bad. No wonder why white supremacist love him.

 

How about a little context with his statement, hmm?

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Awwww! Much less heartwarming, however, was the news that one of NBC’s other new hires, comedian Shane Gillis, had a history of using anti-Asian racial slurs. And least heartwarming of all, from Andrew Yang’s perspective, was the news that Gillis had specifically referred to Andrew Yang, personally, as a “Jew chink” in a May 2019 podcast episode. Yang wasn’t impressed by the non-apology Gillis offered on Twitter, and said so, tweeting at Gillis that he was willing to “sit down and talk,” perhaps in response to Gillis’ offer to “apologize to anyone who’s actually offended by anything I’ve said.”

So Yang had been personally targeted by this guy, and instead of retaliating in kind, asked to sit down and have a conversation with him, and because of that, he "sucks so bad" in your eyes.  Yes, he said that he didn't think Gillis should be fired, but given that he'd actually been targeted by Gillis, I think that means I don't get to criticize his opinion, even if I disagree with it (I think SNL did a shitty job vetting him and his apology was crap, so he hasn't learned any lessons and should be fired).

You say it makes him suck so bad. I say that it shows maturity, composure, courage, empathy and strength. Those are qualities I'm actually looking for in a President. 

Make no mistake, you'll never be able to hate racists out of existence. Dialogue, patience, and the realization that most of the time their racism results from learned behavior taught to them at an early age is our best shot at making that happen. Learned behavior can be unlearned, or at least can be managed.

And before you even say it, yes, it's absolutely, completely unfair that minorities hurt by racist words or actions must also be the most effective weapons against the beliefs out of which that racism is nurtured. It could potentially re-traumatize them. As an ally, I do my best to re-educate people using racially charged language or stereotypes, but I can't show them that minorities have more commonalities with that bigoted person than differences. Only someone who's been targeted by that racism has a shot at doing that. And it sucks and it's unfair, but that's the world we live in.

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JURISPRUDENCE -- "What Happens if Trump Won’t Step Down?"
National security expert Josh Geltzer on why we should be prepared for the worst.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/joshua-geltzer-election-peaceful-transition-of-power-donald-trump.html

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[JG] But here’s the problem: Reluctance means not doing what we can now to address this concern. And I do think there are important checks on Trump’s ability to contest valid election results—but some need activating right away, if they’re going to have maximum impact.

[DL]When you wrote about this last winter you suggested that there were four powerful checks on this possibility: the Electoral College, Congress, state governors, and the Defense Department. I wonder if you are more or less sanguine about each of them, seven months later?

[JK]I’m an optimistic guy, but I have to be less sanguine—because, seven months later, I haven’t seen any of these checks taking seriously this concern. In fairness, some need prompting to do so. For example, it’s the political parties that should require their electors for the Electoral College to pledge that they won’t withhold, delay, or alter their votes based on the claims or protestations of any candidate, including Trump himself. But I don’t see the parties requiring that, or even discussing whether to require it. And others—such as Congress or state governors—don’t need prompting at all to make the sort of commitments I urged back in February. Yet they don’t seem to be making those commitments. And remember: This is about ensuring that valid election results are respected, whichever way that cuts. That shouldn’t be controversial.


 

Today's Doonsbury strip treats the same question, what to do if he doesn't accept losing the election:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/doonesbury/
 

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2 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Amazingly, this is probably not all De Vos' fault, and I say that as someone who dislikes her more than Bonnot OG hates the world.

The issue is largely with all of the rules of what makes a person quality.  Most of these applicants probably do not quality.  That was written into the program back in 2007 as far as I know.  

But where BDV sucks is that they also appear to be running with this and loving that they can deny forgiveness for any which reason.

They are absolutely stonewalling on applications for forgiveness for students cheated by For-Profit colleges though. Even after that court ruling against them.

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On 9/14/2019 at 8:37 AM, Bonnot OG said:

 

The 118-year-old synagogue in Duluth ---

For conversation and enlightenment I was wondering why you think people are antisemitic?

It does not make sense to me. What grave wrong have Jewish people done?

It is a sad thing that the synagogue was burnt. Why do people hate those of the Jewish faith? Doesn't make sense. They were the first to face discrimination.

I would really appreciate it, Bonnot, if you replied with your own thoughts rather than retweeting some tweet.

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The Education Department has rejected 53,339 of the 54,000 applications for its loan forgiveness program.

The above is a partial quote by @Bonnot OG .

Let us bring it down to personal activity. Did your parents have a tuition plan? Are you one of the young adults who frekked round for two or more semesters.

Yes, there are individuals who attend class and meet requirements. Shyte, wtf do I know, parents can't get access to their child's academic records and the internet makes it possible to not actually be in class.

Old school. I worked at a community college. Benefit package was my child could attend tuition free, except for books and lab, if my child maintained a C average. I ended up paying for two semesters of lunch plus the book and lab fee.

That is the problem with free tuition. Sounds good. Yeah, some individuals are going to hunker down and study and pass their classes. Other individuals however are gonna mess a round cause it is free.

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I think the idea that Trump will create a dictatorship in America is absurd. Trump is rightly criticized everyday for not understanding the nuts and bolts of governing, messing around ,golfing and not paying attention in meetings. The idea that Trump could pull off a coup is laughable. Creating a dictatorship is hard work and I don't think he could even pretend to have what it takes. Whether he concedes or not the winner of 2020 will be sworn in and that will be that.

 

As our Republican friends love to remind us America is a republic not a pure democracy and the Electoral College chooses the president not the voters. As long as the Electoral College votes for the Democrat. Trump has no real means to contest the election. Sure he could say he will, and will probably tweet LIES RIGGED and who knows what else; but once the electoral college votes are cast, a million little wheels start turning in preparation for the next president and the full wait of the inertia of American institutions bears down, and I doubt Trump has the knowledge or the attention span to stop that. Tweeting angrily about rigged elections and refusing to admit he lost does not a coup make. Roy Moore never conceded in Alabama and yet Doug Jones is a senator not him. 

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12 minutes ago, Darzin said:

I think the idea that Trump will create a dictatorship in America is absurd. Trump is rightly criticized everyday for not understanding the nuts and bolts of governing, messing around golfing and not paying attention in meetings. The idea that Trump could pull of a coup is laughable. Creating a dictatorship is hard work and I don't think he could even pretend to have what it takes. Whether he concedes or not the winner of 2020 will be sworn in and that will be that.

 

As our Republican friends love to remind us America is a republic not a pure democracy and the Electoral College chooses the President not the voters as long as the Electoral College votes for the Democrat. Trump has no real means to contest the election. Sure he could say he will and will probably tweet LIES RIGGED and who knows what else but once the electoral college votes are cast a million little wheels start turning in preparation for the next president and the full wait of the inertia of American institutions bears down, and I doubt Trump has the knowledge or the attention span to stop that. Tweeting angrily about rigged elections and refusing to admit he lost does not a coup make. Roy Moore never conceded in Alabama and yet Doug Jones is a senator not him. 

Thanks for this: there a plenty of ways the country is moving rapidly fascist under Trump, but I feel pretty confident that if push came to shove theres no opportunity for a coup here - the armed forces would need to back Trump and I don't see any evidence that's the case. Not to mention the entire GOP top to bottom, and the Dems would have to roll over for real (they've had plenty of practice, though).  Because it would mean actual threat of violence between two groups that already have power, and I think Americans in general and especially those with any skin in the game are too cowardly to commit to this.  

Trump's been pretty successful at trashing laws and norms, but this is another level of shit altogether that requires much more complicity from everyone.  Maybe I'm naive but when everyone starts talking about civil war and coups I just think it's fucking nuts in a country with this much disposable money.    They're all making too much off the current system to trash it.

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12 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

 

Golly gee, sorry for the confusion, I was talking to @Bonnot OG.

Then again you weren't actually specifically inviting me into a conversation, were u?

Silly me projecting. :devil:

 

4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

... the fuck? You know how a forum works?

explain it to me 

If you have an issue with something I typed pick it apart. Else let @Bonnot OG reply.

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6 hours ago, Triskele said:

It's remarkable to me how she hired tons of security as her first action as Ed. secretary.  

Apparently, upon taking the job, she imagined she'd be Michelle Pfeiffer circa 1995:

 

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

rump's been pretty successful at trashing laws and norms, but this is another level of shit altogether that requires much more complicity from everyone

That's what the optimistic sorts, the scared sorts, etc. keep saying prior to the escalation to the next level, which he's been doing consistently every day, every week, even before the election.

I wish you were right and I were wrong, but just as with the elections themselves, unless we DO THINGS RIGHT NOW, he will either STEAL the election as they've been doing in all kinds of ways in states like North Carolina, or just refuses to leave and has his base surround the White House with their weapons.  And boyoboy do they have weapons.  You are also putting in a fatuous lot of faith in the military, which, history teaches us, in these cases, is just, well, fatuous.  Or even current events teaches us, i.e. for a single example, Egypt.

 

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1 minute ago, Zorral said:

That's what the optimistic sorts, the scared sorts, etc. keep saying prior to the escalation to the next level, which he's been doing consistently every day, every week, even before the election.

I wish you were right and I were wrong, but just as with the elections themselves, unless we DO THINGS RIGHT NOW, he will either STEAL the election as they've been doing in all kinds of ways in states like North Carolina, or just refuses to leave and has his base surround the White House with their weapons.  And boyoboy do they have weapons.  You are also putting in a fatuous lot of faith in the military, which, history teaches us, in these cases, is just, well, fatuous.  Or even current events teaches us, i.e. for a single example, Egypt.

 

Remember though... Trump has no control over the actual process, the states do, yes they could cheat but voter fraud is super rare. Remember the president has no control over elections the electors ultimately do he CAN"T cancel the election sure he can tweet he will, but who is going to listen?Remember how he tweeted about banning trans soldiers and the military and they responded that he can't issue orders via tweet. Who is going to follow those orders? Certainly not the democratic electors. Once they vote who is going to argue, on January 2020, will the government listen to Trump who derides them as a swamp or the duly elected president? 

As for the military the Egyptian military put one of their own in power from a cabal of generals not an outsider, Morsi was closer to Trump then Sisi is. Do you really think the Joint chiefs, who interact with Trump daily and SEE and HEAR what he is, are going to put their careers on the line for him. Yes the grunts in the army trend conservative but even then the army has a high percentage of minorities and that conservative trend diminishes dramatically when you get to the officers, and the people who you really need the higher ups have met Trump, who many of his own appointees have a loathing for ,these men who were not appointed by him are now going to go to the wire for him? Coups are usually done by the army for the army not someone who has at best a rocky relationship with them. Who else is there the Federal Bureaucracy? They despise Trump. The intelligence agencies do too. Trump is horrible at fostering allies because he's a shit human who is hard to get along with and he has no cadre of loyal followers who are close to him. He could call his deluded fans, but remember where he is DC one of the most liberal cities in the US with a Police Force and National guard to match. But that doesn't matter Trump camped in the Whitehouse will look like a deluded fool and the federal government will start taking orders from the new president. It won't come to that though, Trumps is at his core a coward and a blowhard. He'll blow and bluster but in the end he'll slink off never admitting defeat to go and whine on whatever TV show will have him.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

Ah the can’t happen here mentality is still in full force.

Not so much can't as won't because Trump has no one who is going to overthrow the government for him and he sure as hell isn't doing it himself because he's lazy and because no man rules alone. As much as I think the Electoral College is a bad system it's actually pretty good at preventing  dictatorial power grabs because technically voters and the previous president have no say it's all up the electors and if states don't certify they also don't get a congressional delegation.  

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