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Fragile Bird

US Politics: Flaming the Flamenco Flamingo

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2 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Why? It doesn't matter. It's just more noise.

Have you just given up?

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2 minutes ago, redriver said:

Have you just given up?

There's a point where optimism and even obstinance just become willful self-delusion. That was like 2.5 years ago.

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1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

There's a point where optimism and even obstinance just become willful self-delusion. That was like 2.5 years ago.

From an overseas perspective it seems like all these legal/quasi legal affronts keep piling up yet no one acts.

Does someone like Pelosi wait for a critical mass of such to accrue or is she waiting for a real killer own goal?

I get that most of this stuff appeals to his base and therefore has political worth for him, but Jesus he must have wandered into illegality enough times to impeach?

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6 minutes ago, redriver said:

From an overseas perspective it seems like all these legal/quasi legal affronts keep piling up yet no one acts.

Does someone like Pelosi wait for a critical mass of such to accrue or is she waiting for a real killer own goal?

I get that most of this stuff appeals to his base and therefore has political worth for him, but Jesus he must have wandered into illegality enough times to impeach?

Pelosi can do nothing. It's not her fault any more than it's the fault of every politician since the early 90s. Our government broke and there is no avenue to fixing it. She shares the same blame as all the other elected officials for us getting to this point but castigating her for not shooting the Democratic chances of retaking the WH in the dick displays a lack of understanding of the forces at work. 

That isn't a direct accusation at you, there's a lot of liberals who think that just because they believe hard enough an impeachment would magically be effective. 

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Of course he has done everything that is impeachable but Pelosi & Co. are scared shyteless of his base.  And also of the new young activist New Green Deal elected figures.  Pelosi also sneered at the kids who demonstrated outside her office for action on climate change.  "They're just kids and know nothing."  And sneered.  It's she and Schumer and their ancient ilks that have allowed this situation to develop over many many years.

But as one Dem said today -- interviewed by the BBC, not the US's NPR -- we cannot expect an election to fix this.  We cannot have elected presidents come in now and expect they can do whatever they want four four years without consequence.  That is why we must impeach.

 

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2 hours ago, redriver said:

Have you just given up?

Jace armors herself in despair, so other sorrows, disappointments, or heartbreak cannot touch her.

Kinda like the smart mouth kids who crack self-deprecating jokes before their bullies can abuse them, leaving the bullies with no new way of getting to them.

2 hours ago, redriver said:

From an overseas perspective it seems like all these legal/quasi legal affronts keep piling up yet no one acts.

Does someone like Pelosi wait for a critical mass of such to accrue or is she waiting for a real killer own goal?

I get that most of this stuff appeals to his base and therefore has political worth for him, but Jesus he must have wandered into illegality enough times to impeach?

Pelosi and older Democrats are terrified that an attempt to attack Trump via impeachment will only rally both his own backers and the people who choose to mostly remain uninformed and uninvolved except during presidential elections. They're afraid these people, who often lean somewhat conservative, but will vote reflexively against whoever is changing what they're used to in US politics/culture, will then stop seeing Trump as the disruption/source of corruption and see Democrats as simply trying to cast out Trump, and turn this into yet another false equivalence between Democrats and Republicans.

They also know impeaching Trump is impossible, as you need 2/3 of senators to vote in favor of impeachment, which would mean getting 20 Republican senators to vote on their side, something which is not going to happen. So these Democrats are basically focused on trying to keep a spotlight on Trump's corruption and incompetence, without doing anything to turn the public against them.

That generation of Democrats is not willing to gamble on the idea that an impeachment proceeding may shift the public to their side, as they remember how people turned against the Clinton impeachment effort and are prone to assuming the general public is more conservative than they are. (Studies show Democrats in politics often overestimate the support on the sides of Republicans by about 10%, so basically when the population is split 50/50 on Dem vs Republican, political Democrats tend to see that as 60/40 in favor of Republicans, as a for example. Those same studies say that Republicans are much more extreme in overestimating their support [think 20-25% or more]  and they really run with it.)

Whether they can keep up this pattern given how Trump's reckless lawlessness is picking up momentum and becoming more brazen is the big question. Because a lot of people are starting to feel like we can't wait another year and change of letting him and his enablers run roughshod all over the country and the law.

Edited by Paladin of Ice

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