US Politics: Flaming the Flamenco Flamingo

[Zorral]

"A new poll shows voters aren’t buying what Trump is selling"

Quote

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/09/trump-is-isolationist-protectionist-climate-denier-voters-arent/

....A new survey released Monday from the Chicago Council on Global Affairs reinforces these findings and extends them into foreign policy and trade policy. Trump is an isolationist at heart, but the survey shows the American public is becoming more, not less, supportive of foreign engagement. Sixty-nine percent of those surveyed think that the United States should take “an active part in world affairs.” One of the only times in the past 45 years that support for international engagement has been higher was in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. Trump views NATO as a rip-off, yet 73 percent of the public thinks NATO is essential to U.S. security — up from 65 percent when Trump was elected.

The public has similarly rejected Trump’s protectionism. The percentage of Americans who think that international trade is good for the U.S. economy has risen to an astonishing 87 percent — a whopping increase of 28 points since Trump was elected. For all of Trump’s vilification of U.S. trade partners, overwhelming majorities favor trade with Germany (87 percent), Japan (87 percent) and Mexico (83 percent). Seventy-four percent even support trade with China, despite — or because of — Trump’s trade war.

The Chicago Council survey also confirms public rejection of Trump positions on immigration (81 percent want a pathway for citizenship for undocumented immigrants; only 23 percent want to separate immigrant children from parents) and climate change (51 percent support steps to address the problem even if they involve “significant costs”)....

 

And so on and so forth and etc.

[Fragile Bird]

3 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Third post in that twitter thread has a video of the announcement that anyone without a visa needed to disembark. Maybe this was a mistake on the part of the ferry operator, or a miscommunication, but the Trump admin doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Well, I think I’ve made it pretty clear I loathe everything Trump, but many people are being quickly moved to Florida so I think for once I’d give them the benefit of the doubt.

2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Yes, what kind of idiot goes to any safe port in a storm or tries to escape death without following proper protocol!  Fucking idiots!

Sure, I’d jump the line and sneak on the ferry if I could too. But if the ferry operator gets to Ft. Lauderdale and Immigration puts those passengers back on the ferry to return to the Bahamas and bans the ferry operator from landing in Florida for failure to check the passenger ID that’s not going to be a big help, is it? You know they can do that, right?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, I think I’ve made it pretty clear I loathe everything Trump, but many people are being quickly moved to Florida so I think for once I’d give them the benefit of the doubt.

Here is a Vox article describing the situation. I think the absolute most benefit of the doubt you could give the administration in this instance is that there's a lot of confusion coming from the top that is interfering with evacuation efforts on the ground.

And, as in all cases, the fish rots from the head down:

Quote

President Donald Trump told reporters on Monday that the US must “be very careful” about admitting Bahamians, adding that the Bahamas have “some very bad people” and that “everybody needs totally proper documentation.”

So, if you'll allow me just a touch of educated guessing, I'd say that the evacuation procedures were more or less set in place, and then Trump went and opened his big mouth and jammed his foot all the way in, bone spurs and all.

As for evacuating Bahamians more quickly, the U.S. certainly has options, including one for which the U.S. already has a law and which 2 Senators from Trump's party asked him to utilize, which allows Bahamians to be admitted without visas or passports, simply by means of an emergency declaration by Trump.

Then there is also extending TPS status to the Bahamas, or granting Bahamians parole, as described in the article. Given that a formal request for an emergency declaration was submitted to Trump, which he apparently rejected, I'm less inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this yet, but it's about as unsurprising as humanly possible:

Quote

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross threatened to fire top employees at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) after officials contradicted President Trump’s claim that Alabama could be impacted by Hurricane Dorian, according to a report by The New York Times. 

The Commerce Department later denied the story in a statement to The Hill.

"The New York Times story is false. Secretary Ross did not threaten to fire any NOAA staff over forecasting and public statements about Hurricane Dorian," the spokesperson told The Hill. 

Trump faced pushback from meteorologists last week after stating that Alabama would potentially feel the effects of Dorian. The warning, which came via tweet, prompted the National Weather Service's Birmingham branch to emphasize on Twitter that the state would not be affected by the storm. 

Trump adamantly defended his position throughout the week and at one point displayed a map in the Oval Office that appeared to show a marker-drawn addition to indicate Dorian would hit Alabama.   

Ross contacted acting NOAA Administrator Neil Jacobs two days later and asked him to fix issues related to the perception that the agency had contradicted Trump, The New York Times reported Monday, citing three people familiar with the discussion. The newspaper said that Jacobs initially objected. 

He was then told that political staff at NOAA would be dismissed if the situation wasn't resolved. 

On Friday, an unsigned NOAA statement was issued that affirmed Trump's claims and disavowing the tweet from the National Weather Service in Birmingham about the hurricane. 

The White House and the Commerce Department declined to comment to The New York Times, the story said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460574-ross-threatened-to-fire-top-noaa-staff-after-office-contradicted

 

Your tax payer dollars hard at work, ladies and gentlemen. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm not sure if anyone posted this yet, but it's about as unsurprising as humanly possible:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460574-ross-threatened-to-fire-top-noaa-staff-after-office-contradicted

 

Your tax payer dollars hard at work, ladies and gentlemen. 

I was actually coming in to post TPM's write-up about the same incident when I got distracted by the discussion about the evacuation of Bahamian refugees and forgot about the other article. ADD FTW!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I was actually coming in to post TPM's write-up about the same incident when I got distracted by the discussion about the evacuation of Bahamian refugees and forgot about the other article. ADD FTW!

Eh, you were also hurt by that subject being a lot more interesting. Everyone I've spoken with has assumed that NOAA's actions were nakedly political. Makes you feel safe, right?

[SpaceChampion]

Valerie Plame running for congress

 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Here is a Vox article describing the situation. I think the absolute most benefit of the doubt you could give the administration in this instance is that there's a lot of confusion coming from the top that is interfering with evacuation efforts on the ground.

And, as in all cases, the fish rots from the head down:

So, if you'll allow me just a touch of educated guessing, I'd say that the evacuation procedures were more or less set in place, and then Trump went and opened his big mouth and jammed his foot all the way in, bone spurs and all.

As for evacuating Bahamians more quickly, the U.S. certainly has options, including one for which the U.S. already has a law and which 2 Senators from Trump's party asked him to utilize, which allows Bahamians to be admitted without visas or passports, simply by means of an emergency declaration by Trump.

Then there is also extending TPS status to the Bahamas, or granting Bahamians parole, as described in the article. Given that a formal request for an emergency declaration was submitted to Trump, which he apparently rejected, I'm less inclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt.

Right now we have an election going on in Canada. The Trudeau government is being attacked for not, I dunno, sending troops to guard our border with the US to prevent masses of refugees from illegally crossing the border. These are people let into the US under the provisions you quote. Now you don’t want them, and Trump says he’s sending them back to Haiti and other countries. We let in our own numbers of refugees from Haiti after the earthquake, and thousands of refugees from Central and South America as well. Do you think in two or three years we will want thousands of refugees from the Bahamas, who’d rather be in the US, because after making political hay with a humanitarian gesture you guys get tired of having them and instead you tell them to go to Canada? Have you seen the pictures from the Abacos? No one is going home in two years (I think two years is the usual term, which can be extended and was extended by Obama.)

It’s nice to say ‘we have these provisions, why isn’t Trump using them’, but you guys don’t really want the people. Have you heard an outcry of support for the people from Haiti that Trump is kicking out? No, you hear it’s been way too long since the Haiti earthquake, they need to go back.

When I think of refugees I think of the US letting in a million and a half Vietnamese over a ten year period. But of course that was influenced by massive US guilt over the war. I don’t know how Americans feel about Bahamians, but I don’t think, disaster or not, letting them stay permanently is going to be happening any time soon. Maybe people will change their opinion as the horrors continue.

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, you were also hurt by that subject being a lot more interesting. Everyone I've spoken with has assumed that NOAA's actions were nakedly political. Makes you feel safe, right?

That was my presumption as well.

And, given that I live smack dab in the middle of tornado alley, nothing about this fiasco has made me feel good at all, although I guess a silver lining is that tornadoes are more local affairs that are done with in one night, so Trump won't have the time to dole out tons of misinformation. 

[Guest]

@Fragile Bird

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree - and that's even what I was attempting to point out - that the issue here is political, and that the U.S. most likely had a system in place that was working. 

Up until Trump opened his mouth and at least threw a wrench or two into that system, if he didn't end up blowing it up altogether.

And the other provisions I listed were an attempt to point out that if the U.S. really cared about getting the Bahamians to safety asap, then there are pre-existing methods already in place to make sure that happens, and the reason it isn't happening is because of the political bullshit you describe.

[Zorral]

A lot of the people on Abacos and other Bahamian islands are Haitian . . . .

Many Bahamians over the years have emigrated to Florida.  Historically, many of the first 'settlers' of the Floridas (as opposed to native indigenous peoples) came from the Bahamas.  So Bahama and Florida have had family ties for a long time.  So, wtf, hunh? bedbug admin?

HOLY MOLEY! @SpaceChampion  I just watched the Valerie Plame running for congress announcement video!  How's that for making an entrance! She turned that damned car around -- BANG BANG! Another woman gets donations from me.

[The Mother of The Others]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Your tax payer dollars hard at work, ladies and gentlemen. 

Also your news reporters, working real hard, for days.  On this.   Still falling for it real good after like, years now.   The drawing an extra line on the hurricane map with a marker reminds me of when Yossarian in Catch 22 snuck into the command tent the night before a dangerous bombing run and changed the bomb line on the map so his boss thought the allies had taken that town overnight, so no need to bomb it.   Genius.  You can almost hear the snickering at all these fools eating it up.

 

Quote

Trump views NATO as a rip-off, yet 73 percent of the public thinks NATO is essential to U.S. security — up from 65 percent when Trump was elected

Well, both of those things are true.  They're getting a free ride and at the same time it sure would be nice if we had confidence in each other, and cohesion and congruence and all the c words.

Quote

The public has similarly rejected Trump’s protectionism. The percentage of Americans who think that international trade is good for the U.S. economy has risen to an astonishing 87 percent — Seventy-four percent even support trade with China, despite — or because of — Trump’s trade war.

People do like trade.  Congratulations, study, for noticing!   The trade war is also in favor of trade.  Which is better than theft which we have currently.  People also know this.  So the public hasn't done anything here except answer some pointed questions the way the study intended.   And the election is five years away.

 

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Listen man, you need at least one field to explain why chicks dig the bad boys.

When someone drives as if they don't care whether you live or die, that's exhilarating.   And by putting them in danger, the bad boy has kept the hottie awake.   This inspires her with confidence that he could also keep her awake without the clothes.   Same with dancing.   It establishes you as not a dead fish.   Which people mostly want to avoid in the bedroom.   You don't want that limp handshake extended to crotch play.   Which is why Trump skips the handshake and grabs the crotch direct.   It's forthright.  Action based.   Decisive.   Presidential.   Naughty.   Thrilling.   And congrats to Billy Bush for getting rehired by.... Extra?   He got a raw deal, fired from celebrity gossip TV because Trump grabbed crotches years before.   That's not Me Too so much as Six Degrees of Separation.

5 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

There is also extending TPS status to the Bahamas, or granting Bahamians parole, 

Parole?   (Playoffs!?!?)    Wait.  So, if Bahamanians got caught in another hurricane, would that be a parole violation?    Imagine if a hurricane hit an island of white people.   That'd be horrible for democrats.   It'd totally hamstring their ability to use the situation for race baiting.   That hurricane would be useless!  

This storm parked itself above some of the islands and stayed put with like 180mph (!?!) winds for days straight.  So.... there's places without anyone alive to assess the total damage.  That's not a 2 year rebuild extension.  That's the end.  Total horror.

Well, there's hope.   New Orleans rebounded.  And right on cue, Go Saints!    (Not because of the QB rehabbing gays in his garage or whatever, I'm not into that.  Rather, because that was a game of the year finish in week 1!  Fuck yeah.  There's some proof of life continuing after strong winds right derrr!

[Guest]

Politico dropped a huge story today about Jerry Falwell, Jr. and Liberty University. There are accusations of sexual "impropriety" and self-dealing galore.

If this thing gains traction, I think it could end up being a very influential story, especially in an upcoming election year.

There is a growing amount of discontent in evangelical communities with both Trump and the political influence on evangelical outreach. Falwell is a major power broker in evangelical affairs, and if he goes down I think there will be even more pushback against the current fusion of Trump and evangelicals.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Also your news reporters, working real hard, for days.  On this.   Still falling for it real good after like, years now.   The drawing an extra line on the hurricane map with a marker reminds me of when Yossarian in Catch 22 snuck into the command tent the night before a dangerous bombing run and changed the bomb line on the map so his boss thought the allies had taken that town overnight, so no need to bomb it.   Genius.  You can almost hear the snickering at all these fools eating it up.

Unlike what Yossarian did, I don't think anyone was fooled by the nipple-less boob that was drawn on the map to cover a small bit of Alabama, except for maybe Trump.

[Darth Richard II]

1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Unlike what Yossarian did, I don't think anyone was fooled by the nipple-less boob that was drawn on the map to cover a small bit of Alabama, except for maybe Trump.

Don’t feed it.

[The Anti-Targ]

Just now, Darth Richard II said:

Don’t feed it.

Sorry, couldn't resist when Catch 22 was brought into it.

Lots of noise recently about Trump suffering mental decline (for reals this time, maybe). At some point there's going to have to be a transition to recognising that this is a mental health issue, and while one must take steps to limit the harm to others from the behaviors of the mentally ill, one must still not make light of mental illness or those suffering from such.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Sorry, couldn't resist when Catch 22 was brought into it.

Lots of noise recently about Trump suffering mental decline (for reals this time, maybe). At some point there's going to have to be a transition to recognising that this is a mental health issue, and while one must take steps to limit the harm to others from the behaviors of the mentally ill, one must still not make light of mental illness or those suffering from such.

I hope when his brain starts leaking out of his ears that it strongly resembles Campbell's Chicken 'N Stars canned soup. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

So Todd Palin's had enough?

 

Eta: guess we can't post gifs?

Anyways, Todd is filing for divorce from Sarah and Twitter is going wild trying to guess who is getting the trailer?

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I hope when his brain starts leaking out of his ears that it strongly resembles Campbell's Chicken 'N Stars canned soup. 

Talk shit about the mentally ill at the cost of your own humanity.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Talk shit about the mentally ill at the cost of your own humanity.

I traded that shit for a dime bag and two Blockbuster Video rental coupons back in '98. Send the bill to Johnny Tran.