Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Moiraine Sedai

The plight of the poor

Recommended Posts

George revealed his thoughts on tax cuts for the rich and reduced services for the lower classes on interviews.  He is concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans.   Given his own humble beginnings, what endings do you see for the commoners like Greyworm, Davos, Missandei, Qyburn, Varys, and other non-noble.  Do you think he will sympathize and write happy endings for them?  What endings do you predict for them?

 

Reminder, Dunk didn't get a happy ending.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All these people are close to a king/queen or literally part of the noble class (Davos is a landed Knight). These aren’t commoners and their fate shouldn’t be equivalent to them. They won’t freeze to death. The actual commoners have been suffering and nobody cares. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think, at best, he will have Westeros ruled by someone (or several someones) who care about the welfare of the common people, meaning they would be taken care off better than now.  The remaining Starks would fit the bill.  Daenerys might, as well.

There are no real commoners among the main characters.  The closest is probably Gendry.  The others are either presently nobility or are foreigners, which puts them in a category of their own outside the Westeros social structure.  While characters like Davos, Bronn, and Varys may have been commoners once, they sure aren't now.  Missandei and Grey Worm are ex-slaves.  Not sure where that puts them in the social structure.

Some of them might have more-or-less happy endings; some may not.  It's way too early to tell at this point, and of the characters mentioned in the OP, Davos is the only one important enough for his own story.  (Varys is important in Westeros, but is offstage too much to be important for the story itself.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Martin will be an equal opportunity ender.  By that I mean bad things as well as good can happen to anyone.  Look at the butcher's boy who did nothing wrong.  He died because Sansa lied and Joffrey was a jerk.  Fate can be random.  It's better to be lucky than talented.  Talent and hard work gets you far but bad luck can sabotage even brilliant effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the poor will be modernised far quicker than you think, they will be turned into an army of mindless zombies under control of the White Walkers, much like today’s working class

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simply, the common folk will suffer the most as this story plays out, as they always have when one plays the game of thrones. Whoever ends up ruling what is left of Westeros will most likely be the most wise, kind, and benevolent ruler we have seen take the throne throughout these seven books. That's probably the best that we could hope for in regards to commoners. I'm sure they will be left better off in some regard than where we found them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2019 at 5:45 AM, FitzChivalry Fartseer said:

I think the poor will be modernised far quicker than you think, they will be turned into an army of mindless zombies under control of the White Walkers, much like today’s working class

George came from humble beginnings.  His family lost their wealth before he was born.  He is a self made man.  Don't you think he will give the better ending to the regular people and those who were slaves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

George came from humble beginnings.  His family lost their wealth before he was born.  He is a self made man.  Don't you think he will give the better ending to the regular people and those who were slaves. 

Given that he has mostly ignored the commoners and common-born (Davos is the most important, and he's well down the list), I doubt it.  I think some will get nice endings, and some will not, just like the nobility that he has focused on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Nevets said:

Given that he has mostly ignored the commoners and common-born (Davos is the most important, and he's well down the list), I doubt it.  I think some will get nice endings, and some will not, just like the nobility that he has focused on.

GRRM has spent a great deal of time exposing the reader to the dark underbelly of Westeros and Essos.  He ussually does this via an upper class character, because those are the ones the modern reader will more likely be empathizing.   Most of us live lives that are far more similiar to medieval upper class than lower class.  Clean water, plenty of food, general safety and security.  Those are things the peasants generally lack.  Both in the Riverlands and Essos several of the main characters are windows into what life as a slave or serf is like.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO there is sufficient black paint poured on those in power to mean the system will change. Violence without end since history is recorded in Westeros. Targaryens and before, petty kings, petty lords, petty knights, petty servants. Even those obsessed with their honor and their oaths, like Ned or Barristan. Even those seeking or living of the powerful like Qyburn or Varys. Or misled in supporting the wrong cause.

Varys' Riddle, the powerful and the sellsword also mean those people get their power because too many are corrupted, how little power they themselves get for lending their support, their sword, without any sense of justice or rightness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/12/2019 at 3:50 PM, Nevets said:

Daenerys might, as well.

 

She'll demonstrate her concern for the common people by inflicting the violent, savage, foreign dothraki on them. Truly she's a woman out of time. A ruler from the modern age. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Sourjapes said:

She'll demonstrate her concern for the common people by inflicting the violent, savage, foreign dothraki on them. Truly she's a woman out of time. A ruler from the modern age. 

I don't think so.  She has been the only leader in the book who made her primarily goal to help people.  The Starks only wanted revenge for Bran and Ned.  Tywin to protect his family reputation.  Jaime and Cersei to fuck themselves silly.  Renly wanted his brother's throne.  Balon wanted to rape and steal.  Jon wanted to avenge the Starks.  It is young Daenerys who fought battles to free as many people from slavery as possible even when such people have nothing to offer and brought no benefit to her cause.  I would trust her leadership before Stannis, Jon, and Cersei.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bullrout said:

I don't think so.  She has been the only leader in the book who made her primarily goal to help people.  The Starks only wanted revenge for Bran and Ned.  Tywin to protect his family reputation.  Jaime and Cersei to fuck themselves silly.  Renly wanted his brother's throne.  Balon wanted to rape and steal.  Jon wanted to avenge the Starks.  It is young Daenerys who fought battles to free as many people from slavery as possible even when such people have nothing to offer and brought no benefit to her cause.  I would trust her leadership before Stannis, Jon, and Cersei.

I don't question Dany's motives but rather her consequences. Was her conquest of Slavery's Bay justified? Will it have done good in the end? I think that's an open question. Mind you, I'm not condemning it nor fully endorsing it. I can see it as a grey issue much as the American Civil War. Was that the best way to end slavery, with hundreds of thousands dead and twice as many wounded and maimed? Wasn't my family in bondage either but was it worth it to sacrifice that many lives and that much property (non-slave property) to end that institution? Many, including myself, wonder if a slower, peaceful approach that was more incremental wouldn't have achieved the same result without such an immense loss of life. What Dany has done to Slavery's Bay will likely shape the area's culture, economy, and politics for generations to come. Maybe for the better, but then maybe not. You can't just overthrow a society like that and assume you will improve things. My point is, it's a huge gamble. 

 

So when it comes to Westoros, maybe she will be a good queen. Maybe. I'd rather have Stannis to be honest, but I suppose given his embracing of R'hllor you could criticize him too. Maybe the Tommen/Tyrell regime was really the most sensible one. However I think that Dany is going to cause immense harm to Westoros over the long term if she invades with Dothraki. That's my main issue with her. I find it naive and not really fitting in with the tone or themes of the books for her to just invade with a Dothraki horde and for that not to have huge, negative, far-reaching consequences for generations to come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/17/2019 at 3:34 PM, BalerionTheCat said:

IMO there is sufficient black paint poured on those in power to mean the system will change. Violence without end since history is recorded in Westeros. Targaryens and before, petty kings, petty lords, petty knights, petty servants. Even those obsessed with their honor and their oaths, like Ned or Barristan. Even those seeking or living of the powerful like Qyburn or Varys. Or misled in supporting the wrong cause.

Varys' Riddle, the powerful and the sellsword also mean those people get their power because too many are corrupted, how little power they themselves get for lending their support, their sword, without any sense of justice or rightness.

It might mean the smallfolk will rise up against the Lannisters, Starks, Arryns, Boltons, and other controlling families of Westeros.  The smallfolk do the producing and the working, while the nobles do the warring.  The smallfolk can take control, if they really want to.  All they need is a strong leader.  I am no fan of Gendry but he might be the one to say enough is enough.

The spark will start from across the sea, in Volantis.  Volantis is a really extreme example of the few controlling the many.  All it would take is a word from Mhysa and the Volantene slaves will take control from their masters.  That will be the spark to ignite freedom in Westeros, assuming there is enough time to do that before the worst of the winter.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×