Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, alienarea said: Which book? The rest of ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 18 hours ago, alienarea said: If he ever finishes TWoW, I hope it opens with Jon being dead and getting cremated in the same place Ygritte was. No resurrection. That'd certainly be a way to blow fan expectations to hell and back, and prove Book World ≠ Show World. However, GRRM did say in the Barnes and Noble interview that Jon would find out his true parentage. So I'd guess he's coming back from the stabbing. I just hope TWOW tells fully half the remaining story. If GRRM can manage that, and the writing/continuity is up to his standard, I think it'll be the outstanding novel we all want and deserve, and will earn him that Book Hugo he clearly craves. But if it concludes at some semi-random point in the story such as a minor batttle, and the Wall hasn't fallen and Dany is still in Essos, I'll hear about that, and not even buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: The rest of ASOIAF. Still the eternal optimist it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, JNR said: But if it concludes at some semi-random point in the story such as a minor batttle, and the Wall hasn't fallen and Dany is still in Essos, I'll hear about that, and not even buy it. I have no doubt in my mind that you will have managed to convince yourself that you haven’t heard of, let alone read the books by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Well, I would still read the Wikipedia summary just to find out what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 4:11 PM, alienarea said: If he ever finishes TWoW, I hope it opens with Jon being dead and getting cremated in the same place Ygritte was. No resurrection. Hey. At least then they’d be dead together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Has there ever been discussion in Heresy about underground tunnels connecting the Seven Kingdoms? It seems logical to me that the COTF could have had a network of underground tunnels and that helped them fight and survive the First Men and Andals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Hmmm. I think I vaguely remember a discussion like that from a few years back. Definitely something plausible. Those caves do seem to be everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Here’s actually a recent write up on the caves as concerns the CotF and crazily enough genetics. Always looked at it as part of the underlying theme of the story. That of dualities and how they play off of one another. It’s just simple physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Origin of Magical Creatures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Hmmm. I think I vaguely remember a discussion like that from a few years back. Definitely something plausible. Those caves do seem to be everywhere. I'll have to go looking. I particularly think there could be tunnels from Winterfell to/beyond The Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: I'll have to go looking. I particularly think there could be tunnels from Winterfell to/beyond The Wall. Well yeah. But I’m pretty sure that one involved some sort of craziness about time travel and Hodor being his own dad or some such crazy nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 From JNR, Heresy 153, post 132: (from an interview) Quote Did you tell them where you’re headed with the story? They know certain things. I’ve told them certain things. So they have some knowledge, but the devil is in the details. The devil is in the details indeed. Boy, did they ever go off the rails... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I think it’s possible that there is an underground system. Mammoth Cave in Kentucky has over 400 miles of explored tunnels, but I’m not sure how they come up with that number. They are likely adding multiple tunnels together rather than one long length. The books refer to a tunnel named Gorne’s Way. It’s mentioned as a way under the Wall, but it’s not clear where the exit is. The Lord of Winterfell attacked them at the exit, so it seems to hint that it might exit near Winterfell or the Lord simply knew where the exit was. The blizzard that is busy burying Winterfell at the end of Dance might be emanating somehow out of Winterfell. Others on this forum have suggested that the blizzard is actually traveling underground from the north, through the tunnels, and exiting through openings near Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Melifeather said: I think it’s possible that there is an underground system. Mammoth Cave in Kentucky has over 400 miles of explored tunnels, but I’m not sure how they come up with that number. They are likely adding multiple tunnels together rather than one long length. The books refer to a tunnel named Gorne’s Way. It’s mentioned as a way under the Wall, but it’s not clear where the exit is. The Lord of Winterfell attacked them at the exit, so it seems to hint that it might exit near Winterfell or the Lord simply knew where the exit was. The blizzard that is busy burying Winterfell at the end of Dance might be emanating somehow out of Winterfell. Others on this forum have suggested that the blizzard is actually traveling underground from the north, through the tunnels, and exiting through openings near Winterfell. Obviously, the blizzard is the Starks of old, a.k.a. the White Walkers, using the caves to return to Winterfell, because there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. --- Imagine GRRM told them that Jon Snow would fight Ramsay, but as the devil is in the details, 'forgot' to mention that Jon is a White Walker by then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: The devil is in the details indeed. Boy, did they ever go off the rails... And GRRM knew they would, all along... in fact, he predicted it in public. Quote There have been differences between the novels and the television show since the first episode of season one. And for just as long, I have been talking about the butterfly effect. Small changes lead to larger changes lead to huge changes. Quote Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so. The second remark was from January 2016, too. That was long before the delta between show and books got as mind-boggingly huge as we saw in the finale. It was really striking to me, how fans who pay such close attention to everything else he said somehow ignored all these references. They just continued to believe blithely that D&D and GRRM were telling the same story... but it just wasn't the case. And D&D really had no chance to get it right, IMO. They're not ASOIAF experts or skillful analysts. They are just two very ordinary thinkers who depended on GRRM providing critically important information about future books if they were going to have it at all. But that's exactly what GRRM never does, for anybody short of Parris, and not always even her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 The above is also potentially both very promising and very heartbreaking for the books. It's very promising that GRRM has the power to blow the fans' minds even more than ever. Since almost all of the fans are still convinced the show spoiled TWOW and ADOS, they will never see coming, not for a minute, some of the truly spectacular revelations GRRM could easily roll out in the next book. Fans love to be surprised, if the surprises play fair -- meaning, they are well set up, they satisfy emotionally, and they maintain continuity with the logic of the world. But it's heartbreaking to think that GRRM could just as easily fail to finish the series, just because he can't resist doing all those little narrative pit stops and minor character introductions/explorations that we find in the TWOW sample chapters. So instead of having Arianne Martell already at Storm's End in her first TWOW chapter, there to discover something really amazing (to readers and herself), which is also essential for the story... GRRM spends two chapters just getting her there. Two out of only ~150 chapters in which he hopes to tell all the remaining story. If he keeps doing that sort of thing, there really is no way I can see for him to finish ASOIAF at all, and the promise of all his hard work going back a quarter century will go completely unfulfilled. I can only hope he makes some halftime adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, alienarea said: Obviously, the blizzard is the Starks of old, a.k.a. the White Walkers, using the caves to return to Winterfell, because there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. --- Imagine GRRM told them that Jon Snow would fight Ramsay, but as the devil is in the details, 'forgot' to mention that Jon is a White Walker by then? I don't think Jon will become a white walker even though I do believe the white walkers were once human, but I could see him become like Coldhands. I also am quite convinced that he will reprise the role of the Nights King, who Old Nan says was a man by day - oh dear, that does seem to hint at a transformation by night. Maybe he will have the ability to be a white walker by night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Melifeather said: I think it’s possible that there is an underground system. Mammoth Cave in Kentucky has over 400 miles of explored tunnels, but I’m not sure how they come up with that number. They are likely adding multiple tunnels together rather than one long length. The books refer to a tunnel named Gorne’s Way. It’s mentioned as a way under the Wall, but it’s not clear where the exit is. The Lord of Winterfell attacked them at the exit, so it seems to hint that it might exit near Winterfell or the Lord simply knew where the exit was. The blizzard that is busy burying Winterfell at the end of Dance might be emanating somehow out of Winterfell. Others on this forum have suggested that the blizzard is actually traveling underground from the north, through the tunnels, and exiting through openings near Winterfell. Really? I thought it was just you! Links? . ......no you're right FeatherCrystal used to propound that very odd notion. Whatever happened to her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, redriver said: Really? I thought it was just you! Links? . ......no you're right FeatherCrystal used to propound that very odd notion. Whatever happened to her? I've slowly been transitioning my profile back to what it was when I first joined this forum. I started out as Melisandra, then changed to Feather Crystal, and now Melifeather, which is also my name on HoBaW. The blizzard emanating out of Winterfell is not my original idea, neither is the idea that the Wall is disintegrating and blowing away in the form of the blizzard, but they are both solid ideas that I think could be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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