Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: The Faith Militant version of RLJ is certainly hogwash. Even the best RLJ theory can't place Rhaegar and Lyanna even on the same continent during the required time period, let alone also place Jon with them or prove that Lyanna was even pregnant. Nope it can’t. But you can’t base anything on information that hasn’t yet been revealed. How do the other theories that we have match up? There’s even less evidence to support them. I’d discuss it further, but I’m pretty sure that an entire extravaganza was held around comparing them all that you can check out if you can’t remember details. I’m fairly sure that there’s no known character that has been noted to actually be pregnant surrounding the time of Jon’s birth. Does that mean that he doesn’t in fact exist? Maybe Jon’s entire story line is a figment of our imagination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: Well if GRRM releases TWOW, it obviously can't be fanfiction, it will be canon. But it can be a poor imitation of his earlier self circa AGOT-ASOS. Yes. But you are missing the other option. Narrow as it might be, he still has the opportunity to be a better version of his earlier self. But only if he is able to recognize and correct anything that might have been an issue in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: They do. They have the capability of influencing people’s future choices. Or you can accept that GRRM is still telling his story, but has also been influenced by the fans. He claims that to not be the case, but how is it possible that the occurrences of the past, what 20 years? Haven’t had an influence on him as well, giving him new ideas. He claims to have stopped reading the forums years ago, and being an old tv writer himself he surely understood some of the choices that D&D made, but we’re not privy to “what” he told them regarding the arcs for each character nor whether or not they chose to incorporate what he told them. Nor do we know how much of the book is completed or when each chapter was written. One thing I believe we can be confident in is that he hasn’t changed the ending that he has in mind. 6 minutes ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: Well if GRRM releases TWOW, it obviously can't be fanfiction, it will be canon. But it can be a poor imitation of his earlier self circa AGOT-ASOS. People’s impressions will be influenced by their personal biases, and whether or not you may think it’s a poor imitation will only be an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: The way he could write the best story he can to his satisfaction and release them fast enough to satisfy fans is to actually sit down and write the books instead of writing something else and constantly traveling instead of writing. Something he probably hasn't done since delivering ASOS. Something he definitely hasn't done since delivering ADWD. Hmmm. Now see that seems like an issue that was brought about due to GRRM’s own personal choices. Nothing wrong with that, we all need to prioritize. And sometimes the things that you need to do come before those that you might want to do. But it seems to me, if that’s the case then it would be something that he might want to let his fans know. I’d imagine that they’d be a lot more understanding if they were aware that that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Melifeather said: One thing I believe we can be confident in is that he hasn’t changed the ending that he has in mind. The problem is that there are an infinite amount of ways to reach that particular ending. And sometimes it’s difficult to know which is exactly the right path to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Hey, most normal people probably don’t even have theories, should be pretty easy to surprise and delight them. It just becomes more difficult when you have two readers with conflicting opinions on how the story proceeds. What does GRRM do then? You risk losing readers no matter what you do. Unless you can find some sort of compromise. I think it's silly for someone to quit reading the books if a theory of theirs turns out to be wrong. No theory is set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, redriver said: Are you arguing with yourself? So I'm not the only one with the theory that they are both Feather. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: They do. They have the capability of influencing people’s future choices. Or you can accept that GRRM is still telling his story, but has also been influenced by the fans. He claims that to not be the case, but how is it possible that the occurrences of the past, what 20 years? Haven’t had an influence on him as well, giving him new ideas. Well, he has admitted the show influenced him to give Osha more "screen time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Nope it can’t. But you can’t base anything on information that hasn’t yet been revealed. How do the other theories that we have match up? There’s even less evidence to support them. I’d discuss it further, but I’m pretty sure that an entire extravaganza was held around comparing them all that you can check out if you can’t remember details. I’m fairly sure that there’s no known character that has been noted to actually be pregnant surrounding the time of Jon’s birth. Does that mean that he doesn’t in fact exist? Maybe Jon’s entire story line is a figment of our imagination? I would have to dig them up, but I have definitely read more convincing theories. I read them a few months back. Either from Black Crow or something over on LH, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Yes. But you are missing the other option. Narrow as it might be, he still has the opportunity to be a better version of his earlier self. But only if he is able to recognize and correct anything that might have been an issue in the past. True, I just meant that obviously JNR doesn't literally mean TWOW would be fanfiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, Melifeather said: He claims to have stopped reading the forums years ago, and being an old tv writer himself he surely understood some of the choices that D&D made, but we’re not privy to “what” he told them regarding the arcs for each character nor whether or not they chose to incorporate what he told them. Nor do we know how much of the book is completed or when each chapter was written. One thing I believe we can be confident in is that he hasn’t changed the ending that he has in mind. People’s impressions will be influenced by their personal biases, and whether or not you may think it’s a poor imitation will only be an opinion. It would only be an opinion, but quality of prose is measurable. If TWOW is mostly travelogue chapters that hardly move the plot along, like the Arianne sample chapters, it would be worse in quality than AGOT-ASOS where the chapters had more purpose and moved the plot along faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Hmmm. Now see that seems like an issue that was brought about due to GRRM’s own personal choices. Nothing wrong with that, we all need to prioritize. And sometimes the things that you need to do come before those that you might want to do. But it seems to me, if that’s the case then it would be something that he might want to let his fans know. I’d imagine that they’d be a lot more understanding if they were aware that that was the case. Yeah, he's never said to the fans that it's better for his mental health to travel a crap ton and write easier books than write ASOIAF. It's been more like "here's two middle fingers if you don't like it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: The problem is that there are an infinite amount of ways to reach that particular ending. And sometimes it’s difficult to know which is exactly the right path to choose. Considering he is a gardener that let's the story choose it's own path, it is possible he changes endings he's had in mind since 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: I think it's silly for someone to quit reading the books if a theory of theirs turns out to be wrong. No theory is set in stone. Maybe. But if RLJ turns out to be confirmed in Winds, how likely would you be to continue on to read ADOS if and when it came out? You might or might not. But it would certainly add weight to the idea of not bothering. Why waste all of the required time just to be disappointed again at the conclusion of the series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: I would have to dig them up, but I have definitely read more convincing theories. I read them a few months back. Either from Black Crow or something over on LH, or both. I’m only familiar with the project from a couple years back that ran between TLH and here, not any new ones. I know most of those older ones are still up on TLH’s old WordPress site. Been somewhat out of the game since then, so I’m not really familiar with anything new. If you come across anything from Black Crow then let me know. I don’t have access to TLH anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: True, I just meant that obviously JNR doesn't literally mean TWOW would be fanfiction. Oh I don’t know. I’m fairly certain that he would at the very least say as much. He has made that claim all along. We shall only find out the true ending to the story after he releases his very own encryptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: It would only be an opinion, but quality of prose is measurable. If TWOW is mostly travelogue chapters that hardly move the plot along, like the Arianne sample chapters, it would be worse in quality than AGOT-ASOS where the chapters had more purpose and moved the plot along faster. Just curious if there is a clearly defined measurement scale that you are using to judge the quality of prose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: Yeah, he's never said to the fans that it's better for his mental health to travel a crap ton and write easier books than write ASOIAF. It's been more like "here's two middle fingers if you don't like it". Might not be his intent, but as a reader myself I can tell you that I a have frequently felt just that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Allyria Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Lord Aegon The Compromiser said: Considering he is a gardener that let's the story choose it's own path, it is possible he changes endings he's had in mind since 1993. Valid point. 1993 was quite some time ago. There’s really no way to know for sure. Well, other than by trusting what it is that GRRM has told us. At this point he is saying there’s been no change, so it seems that it’s now up to the reader to choose whether or not to believe the given response. Imagine how crazy our discussions here would be if he refused to ever address the issue. Someone might end up trying to argue that he threw the whole book away and started over from scratch without telling us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aegon The Compromiser Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Blue Eyed Wolf Girl said: Maybe. But if RLJ turns out to be confirmed in Winds, how likely would you be to continue on to read ADOS if and when it came out? You might or might not. But it would certainly add weight to the idea of not bothering. Why waste all of the required time just to be disappointed again at the conclusion of the series? If RLJ becomes true in TWOW it will have zero bearing on whether I read ADOS or not. I'll either be disappointed by the end of the books or I won't. They continue to be the best book series I have read. If anything makes me lose interest, it would be GRRM's pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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