fionwe1987 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mudguard said: Trump being transparent, assuming he really follows through and provides both a transcript of the call and a copy of the whistleblower complaint, is really bizarre to me, so I still have the feeling that something is up. He's never been willing to hand over information, like his tax returns, that presumably contained damaging information. If there was really something bad in these latest documents, I'd imagine that he'd fight or stonewall their release. We'll see soon enough though. Wondering out loud... Could this be to head off an impeachment inquiry? Because the inquiry would instantly make all the stalling with the Russia affair obsolete, and serve as justification to get all sorts of documents they've been blocking for the past few months. This way, they keep the focus on the Ukraine thing, where they can throw mud at the Dems doing this to protect their candidate, or whatever other nonsense they come up with. Also, there's no tape: Rough transcripts of the calls — there are no recordings from which they are based, and they can vary in their level of detail — were, at the beginning of the administration, widely shared documents that could be viewed by the White House chief of staff, officials at the National Security Council and people working in the region at the State Department or the Defense Department. That changed after the full transcripts of Mr. Trump’s conversations with the president of Mexico and the prime minister of Australia were leaked in 2017. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/trump-calls-world-leaders.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’d like to hear the tape. There is no tape. They don’t tape the President after Nixon. 7 minutes ago, Mudguard said: Trump being transparent, assuming he really follows through and provides both a transcript of the call and a copy of the whistleblower complaint, is really bizarre to me, so I still have the feeling that something is up. He's never been willing to hand over information, like his tax returns, that presumably contained damaging information. If there was really something bad in these latest documents, I'd imagine that he'd fight or stonewall their release. We'll see soon enough though. Well, this isn’t personal and for the first time, there was a unanimous decision by the Senate for them to release the complaint to Congressional Intelligence Committees. Also it’s the law and they are violating it. There are two ways to read this. 1. They know it’s not a big deal and would rather get it out there to defend. 2. They know it’s bad, know it’s going to come out eventually and would rather release on their terms to defend. No way to really know which. They can’t stonewall indefinitely on this, not with the Senate response, House’s announcement of a formal impeachment inquiry because they are withholding this and the law. Additionally, the whistleblower reaches out to Congress to transmit the information, an avenue they have by law. It was going to get out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mudguard said: Trump being transparent, assuming he really follows through and provides both a transcript of the call and a copy of the whistleblower complaint, is really bizarre to me, so I still have the feeling that something is up. A transcript is not evidence of transparency, it's administration propaganda. I agree it's very out of character for him to bend so easily on the whistleblower complaint, but unanimous consent in the Senate is hard for anyone to combat, even him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I'm 99% sure that Senate Republicans consulted with Trump on their decision to side with the Democrats on obtaining the Whistleblower complaint and that he gave the OK. I can't believe that every single Republican in the Senate would have voted with the Democrats apparently against Trump's interest otherwise. Doesn't make sense to me, and is totally out of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 25, 2019 Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Mudguard said: I'm 99% sure that Senate Republicans consulted with Trump on their decision to side with the Democrats on obtaining the Whistleblower complaint and that he gave the OK. I can't believe that every single Republican in the Senate would have voted with the Democrats apparently against Trump's interest otherwise. Doesn't make sense to me, and is totally out of character. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mudguard said: I'm 99% sure that Senate Republicans consulted with Trump on their decision to side with the Democrats on obtaining the Whistleblower complaint and that he gave the OK. Sure it's definitely safe to assume the GOP got Trump's acquiescence before passing the resolution, but we have no idea who pressured whom behind closed doors (at least I haven't seen anything on that, busy watching the Yanks right now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah, so am I. Trump's 180 and the Senate Republican's agreement with the Senate Democrats all happened at the same time. The strategy seems coordinated to me. I really hope I'm wrong about this. If there was something really bad, I would think they would have taken more time to plan out a response rather than immediately agreeing to give up all documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, DMC said: Sure it's definitely safe to assume the GOP got Trump's acquiescence before passing the resolution, but we have no idea who pressured whom behind closed doors (at least I haven't seen anything on that, busy watching the Yanks right now). I haven't yet seen Senate Republican's really exert any pressure on Trump despite all the outrageous and horrific things he's done as President. Hard to believe that access to a complaint would be the thing that got them to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mudguard said: Yeah, so am I. Trump's 180 and the Senate Republican's agreement with the Senate Democrats all happened at the same time. The strategy seems coordinated to me. I really hope I'm wrong about this. If there was something really bad, I would think they would have taken more time to plan out a response rather than immediately agreeing to give up all documents. To be fair, it’s bad enough that Trump withheld aid from a foreign country until they opened an “investigation” into his political rival. It’s also bad to have personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, talking to a Ukrainian administration about a political rival at the behest of the State Department. Curious what the whistleblower complaint is about but wouldn’t dismiss what they have already admitted to. This is part of the problem. If they admit to it and say so what after denying it happens, then the collective we tends to dismiss the seriousness of it. Happened with every other scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mudguard said: I haven't yet seen Senate Republican's really exert any pressure on Trump despite all the outrageous and horrific things he's done as President. Hard to believe that access to a complaint would be the thing that got them to do it. Yeah, I think this is a trap as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Just now, Mudguard said: I haven't yet seen Senate Republican's really exert any pressure on Trump despite all the outrageous and horrific things he's done as President. Hard to believe that access to a complaint would be the thing that got them to do it. They forced him to end the shutdown. McConnell has generally reeled him in on doing things that would be politically devasting. Seems far more likely to me he didn't want to back up Trump flagrantly defying the law to cover up a scandal than this is all some set up - particularly the suggestion the whistleblower was trying to sandbag Dems from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I'm leaning more towards "we're just going to spin, deny, side-step and bullshit, so it doesn't matter if they have the report and the transcripts and the pee tape, etc". Extent of the 'trap' is probabaly WH and Senate GOP comparing notes and agreeing not to vote to impeach no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 42 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: Also, there's no tape: There may not be an official tape, but - there's a tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, Mexal said: There is no tape. They don’t tape the President after Nixon.. I feel like this was probabaly a bad decision? Like, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 25, 2019 Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I feel like this was probabaly a bad decision? Like, why? Because what the public don't know won't hurt 'em. The 'em in this instance being presidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Sounds like Pelosi had no choice with the Democratic caucus pressuring her to do it. But this is all going to end in tears for the Democrats. It'll be another Mueller-like event (high expectations, soft outcome) but the Clinton-style blowback will be much worse than Mueller since the word "impeachment" is being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I'm leaning more towards "we're just going to spin, deny, side-step and bullshit, so it doesn't matter if they have the report and the transcripts and the pee tape, etc". Yeah, it's certainly fair to say today's events clearly indicate both Trump and the GOP think they can weather this, but is that assessment correct? I mean, based on previous examples obviously yeah probably - McConnell's been weathering incredibly unpopular actions for the better part of two decades. But in this specific case, we have such scant information I think speculating on it right now is rather pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said: You realize that the vast, vast, vast, vast, majority of soldiers have jobs that should never put them in a position to fire their weapon or kill anyone at all, right? The amount of effort you went through to qualify your statement does you no credit. And yet, all those jobs exist for the sole purpose of supporting the people that will ultimately pull the trigger. They don't get to deflect responsibility just by pointing out they weren't the one personally pulling the trigger. At best you can say that by volunteering for the US Military is volunteering to help kill Iraqis and Afganis. And I personally don't see much of a difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I’m under the impression there’s a tape of Trump’s call to the Ukrainian President as well. Before I went out to dinner tonight I was watching CNN and one of the commentators said he wanted to hear what tone of voice Trump used in his discussion with the president. But I can’t see any confirmation of that right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.