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A Horse Named Stranger

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I suppose this is encouraging:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-leadership-memo-suggests-senate-cant-block-trial-if-house-votes-to-impeach/ar-AAI1Bfs?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=msnclassic

 

“There is no way we could somehow bar the doors and prevent the managers from presenting the articles to the Senate,” stated a GOP leadership memo reportedly obtained by HuffPost. “The rules of impeachment are clear on this point.”

 

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced the formal impeachment inquiry into Trump last Tuesday after the White House released a memo of Trump’s conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Following the decision was the release of an anonymous whistleblower complaint against the president over his repeated attempts to enlist Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, and allegedly withholding almost $400 million in military aid from Ukraine as leverage.

Articles of impeachment are drafted and voted on in the House, leading to a trial in the Senate. With a Republican majority in the Senate, at least 20 votes from Donald Trump’s own party would be required to reach the 67 necessary to remove him as president, assuming all Democrats and the two independents vote to convict.

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2 hours ago, Ormond said:

The problem with that particular polling question is that Republicans who said "yes" may be interpreting it as "It's a serious problem for his re-election prospects" or "it's a serious problem because of how the Democrats and the media have reacted to it" rather than seeing it as a serious problem in terms of really seeing something wrong with Trump having done it.

Yeah this CBS poll has better-crafted items.  Particularly, 42-36 already think Trump deserves to be impeached over Ukraine, with 22 at "Too soon."  If they can just get about a 13-9 split on the too soons, that pretty much puts reelection out of reach.  Seems quite doable, the problem is sustaining those numbers all the way til next November.

2 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I suppose this is encouraging

McConnell denying a trial/vote is a red herring.  The only way it makes sense is, as someone mentioned upthread, it the whip count is around 60 to convict, in which case it looks like too many GOP votes to claim "exoneration."  But, that seems to be an overwhelmingly unlikely outcome.  If more than a handful of GOP Senators are gonna vote to convict, that almost certainly means a lot of GOP Senators are gonna convict.

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So Biden's campaign demanding networks shut out Rudy really has me wondering...

Quote

“While you often fact check his statements in real time during your discussions, that is no longer enough,” Biden senior adviser Anita Dunn and deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield wrote in a letter obtained by POLITICO. “By giving him your air time, you are allowing him to introduce increasingly unhinged, unfounded and desperate lies into the national conversation.”

Far be it from me to question Dunn on communications strategy, but isn't Rudy going on television a really damn good thing?  I mean, the guy not only demonstrates the pure fishscale insanity of Trump's side, he also frequently says things that's basically material evidence against himself and Trump.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

So Biden's campaign demanding networks shut out Rudy really has me wondering...

Far be it from me to question Dunn on communications strategy, but isn't Rudy going on television a really damn good thing?  I mean, the guy not only demonstrates the pure fishscale insanity of Trump's side, he also frequently says things that's basically material evidence against himself and Trump.

Good for Democrats isn't always good for Biden. 

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8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Good for Democrats isn't always good for Biden. 

No, I specifically meant for Biden.  There's better public representative to demonstrate that the Biden "investigation" is a bunch of rambling bullshit than Rudy.

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Trump ranting / melting down demanded Schiff be investigated for fraud and treason.

https://www.axios.com/trump-whistleblower-adam-schiff-whistleblower-complaint-e38373b0-c9f7-49f0-8083-2473c216b328.html

Quote

Like every American, I deserve to meet my accuser, especially when this accuser, the so-called “Whistleblower,” represented a perfect conversation with a foreign leader in a totally inaccurate and fraudulent way. Then Schiff made up what I actually said by lying to Congress. His lies were made in perhaps the most blatant and sinister manner ever seen in the great Chamber. He wrote down and read terrible things, then said it was from the mouth of the President of the United States. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason. In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION, but also the person who illegally gave this information, which was largely incorrect, to the “Whistleblower.” Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!

The problem with Rudy out there everywhere ranting these lies, it enforces the lying narrative all the time for those who may be inclined or desireous to believe it.  I hear those rethug traitors repeating this stuff all the time when given time on public radio or other non-fake noose venues.  The rail and howl, and no matter the interviewer says, "Sir that isn't true, etc." they just keep on keepin' on.

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42 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The problem with Rudy out there everywhere ranting these lies, it enforces the lying narrative all the time for those who may be inclined or desireous to believe it. 

That's the thing though.  He's sent out there to reinforce the narrative, sure, but if you actually sit through and listen to an interview of his with even FNC spoon-feeding him the talking points - a fate I wouldn't wish upon anyone, granted - by the end of it you're just like....wtf?  At best.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

That's the thing though.  He's sent out there to reinforce the narrative, sure, but if you actually sit through and listen to an interview of his with even FNC spoon-feeding him the talking points - a fate I wouldn't wish upon anyone, granted - by the end of it you're just like....wtf?  At best.

No, YOU'RE all "wft? At best." To Fox and Friends it's a cogent and well-reasoned refutation of the slanderous claims.

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Trump ranting / melting down demanded Schiff be investigated for fraud and treason.

https://www.axios.com/trump-whistleblower-adam-schiff-whistleblower-complaint-e38373b0-c9f7-49f0-8083-2473c216b328.html

The problem with Rudy out there everywhere ranting these lies, it enforces the lying narrative all the time for those who may be inclined or desireous to believe it.  I hear those rethug traitors repeating this stuff all the time when given time on public radio or other non-fake noose venues.  The rail and howl, and no matter the interviewer says, "Sir that isn't true, etc." they just keep on keepin' on.

That is indeed a true meltdown, even by Trump's standards. It's kind of good for us, but also enormously dangerous. He may be snapping, all the while he still has his grubby hands on all sorts of levers. He comes off as both afraid and despotic though. It has perhaps penetrated his brain finally that this is not just some game, where he can walk off in a huff if he loses. 

This kind of rhetoric is going to be quickly shown to be completely empty though. I mean, if Shiff is a traitor as he claims, he should be in prison, right? And he's the fucking President of the United States, with a compliant and supine Attorney General. Does he have evidence that Shiff is a traitor? And he's so incompetent he just leaves a traitor strutting around running Congressional investigations and impeachment proceedings?

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40 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

No, YOU'RE all "wft? At best." To Fox and Friends it's a cogent and well-reasoned refutation of the slanderous claims.

Sure, but it's still absolute batshit to everyone that wasn't definitely gonna vote for Trump anyway.  And that's the battle.

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So one niggling thing about the whole Ukraine development is trump repeatedly describing his call with Zelensky as "perfect". Like I get that he has an odd way of mangling idiom, and otherwise tortures the english language in the the most cringeworthy ways. But, "perfect," in the context of a phone call? It just doesn't fit....unless....

All I can imagine is a team of legal linguists painstakingly coaching trump on how exactly to conduct his talk with Zelensky:

"No mr president, you can't say it like that"
"I'm sorry sir, that's illegal too"
"Uhhh, no. Just.....no"

Until finally he gets it! The wording that is just weaselly enough to buy what they all figured would be an acceptable amount of deniability for Barr and McConnell and Trump's base if not the entire GOP establishment to cover his ass if anybody ever found out.

"Yes Mr President, that's perfect. Say it just like that"

And he did! He said it perfect! Just like those annoying, pencil-necked, nerds told him to say it! Perfect! The phone call was "perfect"!

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

That is indeed a true meltdown, even by Trump's standards. It's kind of good for us, but also enormously dangerous. He may be snapping, all the while he still has his grubby hands on all sorts of levers. He comes off as both afraid and despotic though. It has perhaps penetrated his brain finally that this is not just some game, where he can walk off in a huff if he loses. 

This kind of rhetoric is going to be quickly shown to be completely empty though. I mean, if Shiff is a traitor as he claims, he should be in prison, right? And he's the fucking President of the United States, with a compliant and supine Attorney General. Does he have evidence that Shiff is a traitor? And he's so incompetent he just leaves a traitor strutting around running Congressional investigations and impeachment proceedings?

Gotta wonder if Trump is crazy enough to order Schiff arrested - and what the reaction of Team Trump and congress (both parties) would be should he do so.

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3 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Gotta wonder if Trump is crazy enough to order Schiff arrested

Order whom?  Like, seriously, who is POTUS going to order to arrest a MC?  I'm not saying your question is without foundation.  Just marveling at the fact your question leads to questions that are best left to "political junkie Trivial Pursuit on salvia."

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