Zorral Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 I gotta stop this, there is so much popping all the time I can't keep up. But go to the top of Huff Po and go to Raw Story headlines, and it's one thing after another, bam, bam, bam, including, get this! Giuliani now canceling a paid trip next week as guest of Putin at a conference of that org Putin's set up as the antithesis of the Eu; bedbug asking funding from the NRA for his impeachment defense fund; Volk has resigned over his association with Giuliani and the Ukraine; Putin instructs that his memos with bedbug are not to be made public. It goes on and on and on. As of now, bedbug's a lame duck, totally damaged goods. So, Act 3 -- the guys with their arsenals are going to be everywhere. The catharsis they've been chewing their lips bloody to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 "They should call it Puff Ho. Because all they write is puff pieces and Ariana Huffington is a fucking ho."- Jon H Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Now we're going to be oversaturated with shit. Dam is breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Also there's the NRA bribe thing between him and La Pierre lol. Waiting for the pee tape now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Triskele said: I'll be very curious to see what GOP Senators are saying about this stuff. I saw one headline or something suggesting that they're not saying much yet which is a good sign which feels about right to me. I have not given up 100% hope on whether conviction in the Senate is possible. I know that might sound cartoonishly naive at this point, but I always have to remind myself how many Americans do not follow politics at all and know nothing. That's why Mueller's dud was so painful. The nuance was damning as all fuck, but the public doesn't do nuance. This stuff has straight up treason potential, at least the spirit of the word rather than the constitution's definition of it, and it's not hard to follow. I saw something yesterday attributed to an unnamed GOP senator claiming that if they could vote anonymously there'd be over 30 GOP votes to convict Edit: took it with a grain of salt but no one is going to want to go down with Trump with the winds of public opinion really flip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 It was Jeff Flake who said that 35 republican Senators would vote to remove if the vote were a secret ballot. The problem is, it won't be a secret ballot, and given how everybody knows that Flake is anti-Trump, what else are they gonna say? "No Jeff, I stand by the President no matter what, even in totally hypothetical situations that will never come up". I wouldn't put too much faith in it. Really, IMO the only thing that has changed is if somehow (HOW?) McConnell turned on Trump, I think Trump could be going down, because he will orchestrate the trial and the vote. But given what a complete shitshow the Republican Senate map would look in 2020 if that happened, I can't see any way that McConnell could be persuaded to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Triskele said: I'll be very curious to see what GOP Senators are saying about this stuff. I saw one headline or something suggesting that they're not saying much yet which is a good sign which feels about right to me. I have not given up 100% hope on whether conviction in the Senate is possible. I know that might sound cartoonishly naive at this point, but I always have to remind myself how many Americans do not follow politics at all and know nothing. That's why Mueller's dud was so painful. The nuance was damning as all fuck, but the public doesn't do nuance. This stuff has straight up treason potential, at least the spirit of the word rather than the constitution's definition of it, and it's not hard to follow. Nor should you. It bears reminding that these are political actors and most of them are pretty smart. One of the most frustrating things to me is when Democrats proclaim in righteous anger that all GOP are idiots. That's just not true. They have very logical reasons to have cowed to Trump, and I would imagine that there would indeed be a majority of them in the Senate who would love nothing more than to bury him deep and drink the past 4 years out of their brains. The question is whether the famously inept Democrats can seize this moment securely enough to convince those people it's a lost cause anyway. If the Dem candidates are all beating him resoundingly in the polls ( I mean fucking resoundingly, not an HRC reasonable popular vote lead) in the battleground states then it very well might become more politically expedient to dump him. That's just a big goddamn if and I can't condone actively hoping for it much less counting on it as some seem to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Nor should you. It bears reminding that these are political actors and most of them are pretty smart. One of the most frustrating things to me is when Democrats proclaim in righteous anger that all GOP are idiots. That's just not true. They have very logical reasons to have cowed to Trump, and I would imagine that there would indeed be a majority of them in the Senate who would love nothing more than to bury him deep and drink the past 4 years out of their brains. The question is whether the famously inept Democrats can seize this moment securely enough to convince those people it's a lost cause anyway. If the Dem candidates are all beating him resoundingly in the polls ( I mean fucking resoundingly, not an HRC reasonable popular vote lead) in the battleground states then it very well might become more politically expedient to dump him. That's just a big goddamn if and I can't condone actively hoping for it much less counting on it as some seem to suggest. Seems the Republicans have been far more strategic in their political maneuvering over the last few decades than Democrats. And it seems Democrats consistently seem to fail to turn an advantage into a win. So who are the dummies really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Yeah, impeachment definitely has to happen now. To get more facts and to prevent further election interference. This is is completely out of political considerations. If he is this sloppy, corrupt, and craven in this one instance, he's doing this over and over with all sorts of world leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Triskele said: I have not given up 100% hope on whether conviction in the Senate is possible. I know that might sound cartoonishly naive at this point, but I always have to remind myself how many Americans do not follow politics at all and know nothing. That's why Mueller's dud was so painful. The nuance was damning as all fuck, but the public doesn't do nuance. This stuff has straight up treason potential, at least the spirit of the word rather than the constitution's definition of it, and it's not hard to follow. Nothing's ever 100%, but the conditions haven't changed - the only way the Senate GOP starts to abandon Trump is if he loses a significant portion of the Republican electorate, specifically meaning dropping from around ~90% approval to ~65%. If that happens for a sustained period, his overall approval would be in the low 30s (assuming a corresponding drop among independents/leaners), and the GOP (especially the congressional GOP) may figure they're better off getting him off the ballot and make a miraculous 180 on what constitutes an impeachable offense. Could the impeachment proceedings lead to that happening? Possibly, but probably not (unless, say, the economy also goes to shit). I haven't seen anything so far that Trump supporters can't rationalize away, and honestly it's hard to come up with what that would be at this point. The other thing to consider is how far along in the primary process does the GOP feel locked into him as the nominee. Would they feel comfortable nominating someone at the convention that didn't compete in any primaries? Only a few? That's why it gets really sticky once the primary season starts, and really once states provide filing deadlines for their primaries (most states haven't provided that date yet, but for those who have, most are in December or January). Although, I guess if the GOP unites behind him and he's not tainted as well, Pence could do a write-in campaign or something. I don't know, like I said, that's hard to game out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Yeah, impeachment definitely has to happen now. To get more facts and to prevent further election interference. This is is completely out of political considerations. If he is this sloppy, corrupt, and craven in this one instance, he's doing this over and over with all sorts of world leaders. So I've been wondering, including whether anyone has ever needed to wonder before, if there's a mechanism for the House to get information about similar extortion attempts from foreign powers. Like, can Nance and whomever heads Oversight sit down with the president of Ukraine or his ambassador and get their story? Is that even possible? Should it be? I'm inclined to think it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Triskele said: I don't think the 40% of the country that keeps approving of Trump are all Fox/Limbaugh people. ... Is that person reachable / persuadable. Sure that's the question. They're certainly not all Fox/Limbaugh people, but how much of the country truly is an unpersuadable Trump supporter? 35%? 30? 25? I'd say 35/25 are the upper and lower limits (unless we go into a "great" recession/depression), but if it's actually more like 35, I don't know if the GOP will ever abandon him. 12 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Like, can Nance and whomever heads Oversight sit down with the president of Ukraine or his ambassador and get their story? Is that even possible? Should it be? I'm inclined to think it isn't. I mean he could ask, sure. But obviously no foreign leader is obliged to comply. And it's frankly legitimate for any foreign leader to say such private conversations are meant to be confidential, or even "classified" - as Russia is already making clear for obvious reasons. That's pretty much always been the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Slightly off topic but man, have you ever actually talked to a unpersuadable trump supporter? It’s just...god damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Slightly off topic but man, have you ever actually talked to a unpersuadable trump supporter? You should try conducting class discussions in political science courses with unpersuadable trump supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Triskele said: That sounds truly horrible. I am sorry. LOL, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, DMC said: You should try conducting class discussions in political science courses with unpersuadable trump supporters. There is no suitable emoji or gif to accurately portray the look of horror on my face right now. (You fail them right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, Darth Richard II said: (You fail them right?) Well that and falsely claim they cheated on their exams and/or papers and file a complaint with the Assistant Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 28, 2019 Author Share Posted September 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, DMC said: You should try conducting class discussions in political science courses with unpersuadable trump supporters. Let me guess your standard phrase when rating tests/homeworks. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Let me guess your standard phrase when rating tests/homeworks. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Fail. No, you don’t give them any ground to argue that their own views/opinions were remotely in mind when you were grading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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