Is Ramsay, Brandon Stark's bastard?

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Lord of Ramonet said:

Well in AWOIAF they say that he was born on 282, or perhaps earlier, but there is no certain about that

Ramsay's birth is estimated based on Rickard Stark being alive and the Lord of Winterfell, and since Rickard died in 282 AC, Ramsay has to have been born in 282 AC or earlier. 

[rotting sea cow]

7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ramsay's birth is estimated based on Rickard Stark being alive and the Lord of Winterfell, and since Rickard died in 282 AC, Ramsay has to have been born in 282 AC or earlier.  

yep. Also, Ramsay is described for first time as a "fleshy young man" whilst the first time we meet Theon (born in 278/279) is described as "youth".  There are other indications that Ramsay is at least in age with Theon or slightly older, possibly in his early twenties.

 

 

[Frey family reunion]

On 10/8/2019 at 5:57 PM, Lord of Ramonet said:

Yeap, that's also a possibility, remember Martin loves triangules. He says that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya, therefore Jon and Lyanna look alike, also we have been told that Jon has a lot of North in him, and he was really chill about Cersei and Jaime, there's a lot of possibilities, My favorite theory would be R+L= Danny, you all remember how Ned fought Robert about the Danny issue and he was willing to flip up the king and go back to the North just because of a lil Targ he never even met, and whit Danny's dreams about the red door and the lemon tree he get a hint that she was raise for the first years in Dorne, and that will make her the princess of Ice and Fire

I definitely agree that there is a possibility that Dany's origin story as told to her by Viserys doesn't jive with her earliest childhood memories of a house with a red door with a lemon tree outside.  And I agree that the author is pointing us in the direction of Dorne when it comes to lemon trees.

And the only reason that Viserys would lie to Dany and tell her that she was born on Dragonstone and fled with him to Braavos is that Viserys needs to convince the world, starting with Dany, that she is his sister, when she is in fact not.

And the only reason that I can think of that this deception would be necessary is that Viserys needed a "trueborn" sister as a bargaining chip to obtain an army.  The very scenario that plays out when Viserys hands her over to Drogo in exchange for Drogo promising Viserys that his horde will invade Westeros on his behalf.

My suspicion is that GRRM is playing around with the idea of magical bloodlines, especially when it comes to the Targs and their ability to hatch and bond with dragons.  At the time of the rebellion the main Targaryen line hadn't hatched a dragon in well over one hundred years.  And when you look back at their family tree.  It's fairly easy to see why.  Their line is descended from two people who never had any connection with dragons.  Viserys II, who's dragon egg never hatched, and Larra Rogare, the daughter of a Lys banker.  

You can also see that the author basically split off the Targaryen line into a number of branches around this time.  We have Baela Targaryen and Alyn Velaryon presumably whom the current House Velaryon descended from.  We have a possible Targaryen line hidden through the birth of Viserys Plumm the son of Elaena Targaryen and allegedly her cousin Aegon IV.  We have the descendants of Daena the defiant through House Blackfyre, apparently with both paternal and maternal lines.  We even have another Targaryen House of sorts in House Longwater, descended from Elaena and Alyn Targaryen.

So my suspicion is that a number of these extant lines may have reintegrated (possibly combing with House Targaryen) to give birth to Dany.

Now an interesting question is that if so, was this mere happenstance, or was it specifically planned/engineered?

If there was a manipulation of the bloodlines to try and bring about the "purer" bloodline of Aegon I and his sisters, then my guess is that Rhaegar may have been involved.  Especially if Rhaegar was specifically studying and trying to bring about the various prophecies that he seemed so obsessed about.  If Rhaegar believed that dragons were a necessary component to the Prince that was Promised (as Aemon certainly seemed to believe), then it would not surprise me if Rhaegar was behind Dany's origin in some way.  

Now I'm not necessarily sure that Rhaegar would have to be the father, although certainly possible.

My favorite pet theory/crackpot, is that GRRM may have created an inverse of the King Arthur origin for Dany.  In the King Arthur mythos, Arthur's father, Uther Pendragon, the King of Britain took a fancy to Igraine, so her husband locks her in an impregnable castle for protection.  Merlin cast an illusion (i.e. glamor) on Uther so that he would appear to be Igraine's husband.  Under this deception he conceives Arthur with Igraine.

Perhaps in the chaos of the last weeks of the Targaryen dynasty, Rhaegar engineers his own deception.  Viserys and Rhaella Targaryen leave King's Landing in a midnight voyage to Dragonstone under the nose of Aerys.  Another is then glamored to appear as the queen.  This is the one who is "raped" by Aerys after he burns Chelsted, and this is the one who Jaime sees leaving the Red Keep for the docks under a hood in the morning.

[Lord of Ramonet]

15 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Now an interesting question is that if so, was this mere happenstance, or was it specifically planned/engineered?

I believe this to be quite possible, and the only two people that I think would be able to do this are Rhaegar or unlce maester, but Aemon appears to just realize about Danny's powers while talking to Sam, and i suppose Rhaegar would tell his uncle right away if he had discover it.

 

15 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Under this deception he conceives Arthur with Igraine.

Even tough I like the parallelism I think it was very very hard because until Drogon and the rest hatched magic had almost faded of Planetos, so to conjure an illusion like that would be very hard at the time, but possible, now to more questions

1-Who was the "surrogate"

2-in case of Raeghar being the father, who was the mother? Being Lyanna does the pact of ice and fire between house stark and house targ has something to do?

P.S great theory about why they stopped hatching eggs 

[Lord of Ramonet]

15 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

So my suspicion is that a number of these extant lines may have reintegrated (possibly combing with House Targaryen) to give birth to Dany.

We have the two daugthers of the Rouge Prince, Baela and Rhaenyra, the ugly part about them is that both their parents , (the mother was Lady Laena who rode Vhagar) didn't hatch any eggs, they rode adult dragons into battle, so they might not have the best genes, even tough, the Velaryon and the Hightower come from their bloodline. 

And there's also Sarra Snow, the bastard sister of Lord Cregan Stark, who, according to Mushroom, had sex with prince Jacaerys (he hatched Vermax, and his mom was also a hatcher), perhaps another dragon hatcher Snow came from that union; we need to remember that Starks used to marry between wolves A LOT, maybe those hatching genes came in the Ice part od the pact more than in the Fire one. 

[John Suburbs]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:57 AM, Lord of Ramonet said:

I know, how can he be his son right? well first of all the dates add up because ramsay was born in 282, the same year as Brandon died (he could be a postumus son), and if we remember what Lady Dustin told us about Ned's older brother, he loved blood, he loved women, he loved women's blood on his penis, and he also loved to hunt and ride, the same things that ramsay goes crazy for. Brandon is also remembered for having grey eyes, and Ramsay's are described to be "pale" perhaps the same eyes. Also lady Dustin tells us that Brandon was not shy about taking what he want it (just as Ramsay), so that, and the fact that he was a lustful lad, he could have taken Ramsay's mother as easy as Roose did, finally, if we see the others Starks in history we can look at the "Wolf's Blood", something that describes more of Ramsay than Ned's pups. 

btw I don't think this is going to happen but it will be a great twist, thanks for reading!

I'd say there is more evidence of Domeric being Brandon's son than Ramsay.