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Lord of Ramonet

Is Ramsay, Brandon Stark's bastard?

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I know, how can he be his son right? well first of all the dates add up because ramsay was born in 282, the same year as Brandon died (he could be a postumus son), and if we remember what Lady Dustin told us about Ned's older brother, he loved blood, he loved women, he loved women's blood on his penis, and he also loved to hunt and ride, the same things that ramsay goes crazy for. Brandon is also remembered for having grey eyes, and Ramsay's are described to be "pale" perhaps the same eyes. Also lady Dustin tells us that Brandon was not shy about taking what he want it (just as Ramsay), so that, and the fact that he was a lustful lad, he could have taken Ramsay's mother as easy as Roose did, finally, if we see the others Starks in history we can look at the "Wolf's Blood", something that describes more of Ramsay than Ned's pups. 

btw I don't think this is going to happen but it will be a great twist, thanks for reading!

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Welcome to the dragonpit :)

It's an interesting notion, but I think GRRM has made enough about the difference between Bolton and Stark eyes that Roose was perfectly capable of recognising Bolton blood in the young Ramsay. Generally the Stark grey tends to be darker.

I would also dispute that Ramsay's behaviour is anything like 'Wolf blood'. Ramsay is mean, cruel and appears to be a soul in torment; those who are said to show the 'wolf blood' tend to be exuberant, have a lust for life, and are wilful. Whilst they may forget the interests of others whilst pursuing their own interests, Ramsay deliberately violates others, their pain is his pleasure. There is a clear difference between the two, to my mind.

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yeah I know that im must likely to be wrong at this one but that would be soooo fun haha, and yeap, Ramsay is a psychopath, but even Roose doesn't know if it was Reek who turned him into a monster or the other way around, thanks for the repply mate!

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Though this is an interesting thought, I think it's safe to assume Ramsay is very much a Bolton but this was actually really interesting and fun to consider.

I do think it would be interesting if Brandon's bastards came into play somehow, though. Even if they don't play a large role I would very much be interested to know anything about them and in hindsight I'm rather surprised we haven't even gotten so much as a name for at least one of them (as George has mentioned in an interview that Brandon has bastard children, plural).

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:20 AM, Rufus Snow said:

Welcome to the dragonpit Wolf’s Den. :)

FTFY. :P

 

On 10/1/2019 at 11:20 AM, Rufus Snow said:

It's an interesting notion, but I think GRRM has made enough about the difference between Bolton and Stark eyes that Roose was perfectly capable of recognising Bolton blood in the young Ramsay. Generally the Stark grey tends to be darker.

I agree. The Bolton’s eyes are described quite differently, and there’s a reason for it. Also, the whole nasty story of Ramsay’s conception and how Roose dealt w/ those involved is made clear and I don’t really see any reason to doubt what we've been told about any of it. 

On 10/1/2019 at 11:20 AM, Rufus Snow said:

I would also dispute that Ramsay's behaviour is anything like 'Wolf blood'. Ramsay is mean, cruel and appears to be a soul in torment; those who are said to show the 'wolf blood' tend to be exuberant, have a lust for life, and are wilful. Whilst they may forget the interests of others whilst pursuing their own interests, Ramsay deliberately violates others, their pain is his pleasure. There is a clear difference between the two, to my mind.

Agree wholeheartedly. Ramsay is a crazy psycho, the wolf blood is something else entirely, 

51 minutes ago, Baelon Targaryen said:

I do think it would be interesting if Brandon's bastards came into play somehow, though.

One already has, the Hooded Man! :eek:

51 minutes ago, Baelon Targaryen said:

Even if they don't play a large role I would very much be interested to know anything about them and in hindsight I'm rather surprised we haven't even gotten so much as a name for at least one of them (as George has mentioned in an interview that Brandon has bastard children, plural).

Not quite... what Martin said was

Q: In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

GRRM: It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

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17 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Not quite... what Martin said was

Q: In A Dance with Dragons, we learn more about Brandon Stark and his interest in women, similar to Robert's. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

GRRM: It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

Apologies. I remembered incorrectly; could've sworn he'd said something more definitive than that. Thank you. 

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1 minute ago, Baelon Targaryen said:

Apologies. I remembered incorrectly; could've sworn he'd said something more definitive than that. Thank you. 

No need to apologise! :cheers:

It’s just that Martin seldom gives definitive answers, he’s a tricksy bird! 

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1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Close, but you guessed the wrong bastard of Winterfell as Brandon’s son.  ;)

I guess Jon could also be a bastard (or even legit) son of Brandon and Ashara, and if someone would realize that, Jon could depose Ned and all of his offsprings, lucky for them now Jon is a man of the night's watch right? :)

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4 hours ago, Lord of Ramonet said:

I guess Jon could also be a bastard (or even legit) son of Brandon and Ashara, and if someone would realize that, Jon could depose Ned and all of his offsprings, lucky for them now Jon is a man of the night's watch right? :)

No, he couldn’t. Unless the Ghost of Brandon fathered him. Also, even though Martin is seldom definitive in his answers, sometimes he is. And the quote I posted above spells it out:

“It'd be an exaggeration to say that Brandon died before he could have children. It's established in the books that he was no virgin. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.”

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On 10/1/2019 at 6:20 AM, Rufus Snow said:

Welcome to the dragonpit :)

It's an interesting notion, but I think GRRM has made enough about the difference between Bolton and Stark eyes that Roose was perfectly capable of recognising Bolton blood in the young Ramsay. Generally the Stark grey tends to be darker.

Arya says all "lord faces" look kinda alike

14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

. He could very well have left behind some little Snows in the various places he visited. But what's absolutely clear is that he had no legitimate children.

Snow! :D

Ramsay Bolton

Trueborn Lord of Winterfell

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10 hours ago, Lord of Ramonet said:

I guess Jon could also be a bastard (or even legit) son of Brandon and Ashara, and if someone would realize that, Jon could depose Ned and all of his offsprings, lucky for them now Jon is a man of the night's watch right? :)

I wasn't thinking Ashara.

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20 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Arya says all "lord faces" look kinda alike

So :dunno: Arya's learning curve about faces is a thing in the storyline.

And faces aren't eyes. Not everyone has the same facility for recognising faces. I know some people who believe that all members of other ethnic groups look the same.....

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On 10/1/2019 at 7:57 AM, Lord of Ramonet said:

I know, how can he be his son right? well first of all the dates add up because ramsay was born in 282, the same year as Brandon died (he could be a postumus son),

Ramsay should have been born earlier than 282. These are Roose Bolton accounts regarding Ramsay's birth.
 

Quote

 

"This miller's marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day.

"A year later this same wench had the impudence to turn up at the Dreadfort with a squalling, red-faced monster that she claimed was my own get. I should've had the mother whipped and thrown her child down a well … but the babe did have my eyes. She told me that when her dead husband's brother saw those eyes, he beat her bloody and drove her from the mill. That annoyed me, so I gave her the mill and had the brother's tongue cut out, to make certain he did not go running to Winterfell with tales that might disturb Lord Rickard. Each year I sent the woman some piglets and chickens and a bag of stars, on the understanding that she was never to tell the boy who had fathered him. A peaceful land, a quiet people, that has always been my rule."  - Reek III, ADWD

 

So, when Ramsay's mother turned up with a ~3 months baby at the Dreadfort, Rickard Stark still ruled Winterfell and Roose Bolton feared that Ramsay's uncle will go there to complain, which wouldn't have been possible if Ramsay was born around the time that Brandon died, because Rickard Stark died the very same day. 

 

 

 

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On 10/5/2019 at 1:18 AM, Lord of Ramonet said:

well, tell us 

Suffice it to say that Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna isn’t the only possible parentage that Ned would want to keep hidden from the world.

Reread the chapter where Ned confronts Cersei about his suspicions of her incestuous relationship with Jaime, and ask yourself why Ned is being so sympathetic to her.  This is also the Ned chapter that immediately precedes his dream of Lyanna crying bloody tears in her crypt, reminding Ned of his promise to her.

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26 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Suffice it to say that Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna isn’t the only possible parentage that Ned would want to keep hidden from the world.

I agree with the idea that Martin leaves enough about Jon’s parentage unanswered and foggy so as to be impossible for us to be 100% sure of anything w/o a shadow of a doubt.  

If I'm understanding correctly, you’re saying maybe Ned and Lyanna are Jon’s parents? If so, I wholeheartedly disagree, and don’t see a shred of evidence to support the idea. 

26 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Reread the chapter where Ned confronts Cersei about his suspicions of her incestuous relationship with Jaime, and ask yourself why Ned is being so sympathetic to her.  This is also the Ned chapter that immediately precedes his dream of Lyanna crying bloody tears in her crypt, reminding Ned of his promise to her.

I don’t think Ned’s being sympathetic to Cersei, but rather he is concerned about the children. And that’s  Ned to a T IMO. 

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42 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

agree with the idea that Martin leaves enough about Jon’s parentage unanswered and foggy so as to be impossible for us to be 100% sure of anything w/o a shadow of a doubt.  

If I'm understanding correctly, you’re saying maybe Ned and Lyanna are Jon’s parents? If so, I wholeheartedly disagree, and don’t see a shred of evidence to support the idea. 

No not Ned.

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On 10/7/2019 at 3:12 AM, rotting sea cow said:

Ramsay should have been born earlier than 282. These are Roose Bolton accounts regarding Ramsay's birth.
 

So, when Ramsay's mother turned up with a ~3 months baby at the Dreadfort, Rickard Stark still ruled Winterfell and Roose Bolton feared that Ramsay's uncle will go there to complain, which wouldn't have been possible if Ramsay was born around the time that Brandon died, because Rickard Stark died the very same day. 

 

 

 

Well in AWOIAF they say that he was born on 282, or perhaps earlier, but there is no certain about that

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On 10/7/2019 at 6:07 AM, Frey family reunion said:

Suffice it to say that Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna isn’t the only possible parentage that Ned would want to keep hidden from the world.

Reread the chapter where Ned confronts Cersei about his suspicions of her incestuous relationship with Jaime, and ask yourself why Ned is being so sympathetic to her.  This is also the Ned chapter that immediately precedes his dream of Lyanna crying bloody tears in her crypt, reminding Ned of his promise to her.

Yeap, that's also a possibility, remember Martin loves triangules. He says that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya, therefore Jon and Lyanna look alike, also we have been told that Jon has a lot of North in him, and he was really chill about Cersei and Jaime, there's a lot of possibilities, My favorite theory would be R+L= Danny, you all remember how Ned fought Robert about the Danny issue and he was willing to flip up the king and go back to the North just because of a lil Targ he never even met, and whit Danny's dreams about the red door and the lemon tree he get a hint that she was raise for the first years in Dorne, and that will make her the princess of Ice and Fire

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