briantw Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Hell of a pick there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Triskele said: I have a question that this raised. Do any of you all know if there's been good analysis from FO or anywhere on to what extent does a mobile QB mitigate a weak o-line? I would have to imagine that it must to some degree. But at the same time, the passing game is only a part of the game and even a really mobile QB cannot usually do much damage downfield if their o-line sucks. I'd be curious what the split is on this. A related question: can a team be good with an awful o-line as Tywin suggests? I realize he might just mean "good everywhere else," but are there any instances that show up in the stats where o-line was a particularly weak unit and yet the team overcame and thrived? Many Peyton Manning O-lines after the Colts' superbowl win were extremely bad both in Denver and Indy but he overcame that with a quick release and good play management. Similarly Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson's greatness came in spite of their O-lines, as both had the uncoachable ability to keep their eyes downfield looking for a play while navigating shitty pockets. I don't have any articles of the type you've requested on hand, but I can tell you as someone who has seen a fuckload of football that it is possible. It just puts a massive burden on the QB. And while being mobile helps, I think the real factor is that ability to keep your attention focused on pushing the ball downfield while having an almost preternatural ability to know how up to a dozen large men in your immediate vicinity are moving without looking directly at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Another glorious Rams defeat. They're like a boss in a video game. Every time a team can do them it's good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Triskele said: Do any of you all know if there's been good analysis from FO or anywhere on to what extent does a mobile QB mitigate a weak o-line? I would have to imagine that it must to some degree. But at the same time, the passing game is only a part of the game and even a really mobile QB cannot usually do much damage downfield if their o-line sucks. I'd be curious what the split is on this. Odd that you phrase it that way because I actually believe the reverse to be true. I believe a mobile qb helps the running game more than the passing game. With zone read and RPOs, a mobile quarterback demands that at least one athletic defender be devoted to containing the quarterback. This helps both the run and the pass, but is more crucial in the run, because pass defense can choose to have the holes further downfield, with the hope that the pass rush will get home before those areas are truly vulnerable. In contrast in the running game, if you have a gap free, it's free, and if linebackers have to wait a bit longer to ensure who has the ball, that half step can easily be the difference between a 2 yard run and a 5 yarder. I think the best examples of this were the early Russell Wilson Seahawks teams (which had a pretty average O line but led the league in rushing multiple times) and RG3's rookie year, where a totally mediocre O line was still able to open holes for Alfred Morris to get 1,600 yards. Now, defenses have adjusted to the zone read to some extent, but it's also just that offenses have moved away from it because they can see how many shots their qbs take. Even huge guys like Newton and Luck can't sustain it for long. But IMO, the strategy can still work, and we're seeing similar things from Lamar Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Odd that you phrase it that way because I actually believe the reverse to be true. I believe a mobile qb helps the running game more than the passing game. With zone read and RPOs, a mobile quarterback demands that at least one athletic defender be devoted to containing the quarterback. This helps both the run and the pass, but is more crucial in the run, because pass defense can choose to have the holes further downfield, with the hope that the pass rush will get home before those areas are truly vulnerable. In contrast in the running game, if you have a gap free, it's free, and if linebackers have to wait a bit longer to ensure who has the ball, that half step can easily be the difference between a 2 yard run and a 5 yarder. I think the best examples of this were the early Russell Wilson Seahawks teams (which had a pretty average O line but led the league in rushing multiple times) and RG3's rookie year, where a totally mediocre O line was still able to open holes for Alfred Morris to get 1,600 yards. Now, defenses have adjusted to the zone read to some extent, but it's also just that offenses have moved away from it because they can see how many shots their qbs take. Even huge guys like Newton and Luck can't sustain it for long. But IMO, the strategy can still work, and we're seeing similar things from Lamar Jackson. This begs an additional question though. Should unplanned QB rushes count towards the run game or the pass game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Storm Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I have a feeling the Vikes are gonna make Danny Dimes look like a rookie today. First actually defense he is facing. Still no Barkley, but we get Tate back. Cook will most likely shred us. Only hope is if Kirk is bad Kirk today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, The Last Storm said: I have a feeling the Vikes are gonna make Danny Dimes look like a rookie today. First actually defense he is facing. Still no Barkley, but we get Tate back. Cook will most likely shred us. Only hope is if Kirk is bad Kirk today. He looked like a rookie vs Washington. They of the Manusky 'defense'. I expect the Vikings to make him look like a Duke QB who got over-drafted as fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Storm Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: He looked like a rookie vs Washington. They of the Manusky 'defense'. I expect the Vikings to make him look like a Duke QB who got over-drafted as fuck. No, Haskins looked like a rookie. I’m not enshrining Jones yet but through two games he’s exceeded expectations. Like I said today will be a good test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Damn, Hicks is hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebla Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said: Damn, Hicks is hurt. Yeah, that was BAD. looks like a dislocated elbow. Meanwhile, Richie Incognito makes an appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Trebla said: Yeah, that was BAD. looks like a dislocated elbow. Meanwhile, Richie Incognito makes an appearance. Incognito has always been a fucking punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 hour ago, The Last Storm said: No, Haskins looked like a rookie. I’m not enshrining Jones yet but through two games he’s exceeded expectations. Like I said today will be a good test. Yeah. The back-to-back ints were bad, but he was fine beside that. Just beat Rhodes over the top. Missed Shepard wide the fuck open earlier though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 That td by Jones was admittedly a damn fine throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Bengals going for #1 overall pick and I love it. LETS GET A QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 The Bears Quarterback curse continues. Fuck my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Bengals onto their 4th string LT. Lets see if Dalton survives. It's a mystery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Mason Rudolph just got murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 1 minute ago, briantw said: Mason Rudolph just got murdered. That was brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebla Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, briantw said: Mason Rudolph just got murdered. Seriously, I thought Earl Thomas killed him. The way Rudolph fell and was clearly out, I thought he broke his neck. Thank God he's conscious and was able to walk off the field. How the FUCK did Thomas not get ejected???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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