Ormond Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Trump’s supporters are calling him a king and saying god requires them to support him. If he says jump ship, they’ll jump, not the other way around. And here we go: That statement's a bit overblown. I am sure there are some Trump supporters who do that. What evidence do you have that it's a majority of them? If Fox News turns on Trump, there will be a substantial number of his supporters who stay with him. But I don't believe it will be the entire 42% of the electorate who say they "approve" o him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, Ormond said: That statement's a bit overblown. I am sure there are some Trump supporters who do that. What evidence do you have that it's a majority of them? If Fox News turns on Trump, there will be a substantial number of his supporters who stay with him. But I don't believe it will be the entire 42% of the electorate who say they "approve" o him. TRUMP: “Those RINO cuckservatives at Faux have now become a part of the deep state FAKE NEWS lamestream media.” TRUMP Supporters: “They’re traitors!!!” The best proof I can give you is his 95% approval rating among Republicans. They belong to him now, not Fox. Frankenstein finally found its monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Ormond said: That statement's a bit overblown. I am sure there are some Trump supporters who do that. What evidence do you have that it's a majority of them? If Fox News turns on Trump, there will be a substantial number of his supporters who stay with him. But I don't believe it will be the entire 42% of the electorate who say they "approve" o him. You are correct. There are definitely a contingent of Republicans voters who are die-hard Republicans, but their affinity for Trump is just a matter of convenience. If Fox News can make the case that Trump is more of a hinderance to the cause, they'll turn on him quite readily. The problem is that I think it is likely that this group is less than half of Republicans, possibly significantly less. And thus if Fox News wanted to wage a campaign to raise questions about impeachment and provide cover for any Republican Senator to vote their conscience, they would run the risk of splitting the party AND losing the battle. While Fox News wants to prepare for a post-Trump world, they aren't likely to risk creating a post-Fox News world to do it. I mean, there is no scenario (NONE!) where Trump is removed from office and the 2020 election doesn't become a complete shitshow for Republicans. Trump is a vengeful man, and he will not go quietly. If Trump were somehow removed, he would probably run as either an independent or in the Republican Primary against Pence. And he will absolutely be railing against all of the 20+ Republican senators that voted against him, which will make holding onto the Senate virtually impossible. We could see an electoral wipeout that makes 2008 and 2010 look gentle in comparison. Rupert Murdoch knows this. He's not a dumb man. While it is very likely that he is uncomfortable with Trump turning the Republican Party into a cult of personality, going full anti-Trump is simply not the answer. There is no light at the end of that tunnel for Fox News et al. They would MUCH prefer that Democrats impeach, Republicans vote to acquit, and Trump narrowly loses in 2020 while the Republicans hold the Senate. That would allow them to tar Trump as a loser and a cheat and the Trumpists would gradually fade away. That might actually be the best case scenario for Movement Conservatives like Murdoch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: The best proof I can give you is his 95% approval rating among Republicans. They belong to him now, not Fox. Frankenstein finally found its monster. Is this a joke? Are you aware you're repeating a Trump talking point? I don't think there's been a single credible poll in 3 years of the Presidency where his approval rating hit 95% with Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Is this a joke? Are you aware you're repeating a Trump talking point? I don't think there's been a single credible poll in 3 years of the Presidency where his approval rating hit 95% with Republicans. I picked that number to prove the point that the Republican Party is his party. The real number is somewhere in the 80’s, but that’s still really high. If forced to choose between the two, I think a strong majority would side with Trump and ditch Fox. They can always just find a new news source that reinforces their world views, which Trump constantly does. I’m not sure why you guys think people would leave the cult of personality over a news source when the personality in question says they’re evil, assuming that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 breaking fox as an institution is better than getting rid of a guy who can get got rid of by normal electoral process in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I picked that number to prove the point that the Republican Party is his party. The real number is somewhere in the 80’s, but that’s still really high. If forced to choose between the two, I think a strong majority would side with Trump and ditch Fox. They can always just find a new news source that reinforces their world views, which Trump constantly does. I’m not sure why you guys think people would leave the cult of personality over a news source when the personality in question says they’re evil, assuming that happens. Because there are a lot of transactional Republicans who like the results that Trump has been able to get (2 SC justices, tax cut, defeated Hillary), but don't go in for the cult of personality. They would definitely be classified as approving of Trump in poll results, but that doesn't mean they love Trump if he starts to be a liability for Republicans going forward. And that would essentially be why Fox News would abandon him. 7 minutes ago, sologdin said: breaking fox as an institution is better than getting rid of a guy who can get got rid of by normal electoral process in a year. Sort of. If Fox News goes away, it is almost assuredly being replaced by something even more extreme. I mean, I suppose it's possible that Fox News could become what it has always claimed to be - a center-right news source, rather than the extreme right propaganda it's been the past 20 years. In which case a segment of Republicans would be getting Fox News and another segment would be getting Crazy Patriot News. But that's like the best case scenario. More likely is Fox News continues to be a propaganda outlet OR Fox News is replaced and consumed by Crazy Patriot News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 A note on FNC and their polling - do not conflate the two. Of course Trump is going to do that, but that doesn't mean we have to. FNC polling is not reflecting of the coverage portrayed on the channel - and that goes for morning, afternoon, and primetime. Fox News has an A rating according to 538, and actually has a slight Democratic bias according to Silver's metrics. While I'm not too familiar with the two firms they currently commission to conduct their polls, I know they used to use Opinion Dynamics, which has a sterling reputation. The bullshit weighting among well-known right-wing polling firms is Rasmussen, not Fox News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Yeah, Fox News polling is legitimate. Which is why increasingly Fox News isn't covering it's own polls on the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Ughh would someone put her out to pasture already- POLITICS Susan Collins Is Fundraising Off Her Brett Kavanaugh Vote: ‘Far Left’ Coming After Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I picked that number to prove the point that the Republican Party is his party. The real number is somewhere in the 80’s, but that’s still really high. If forced to choose between the two, I think a strong majority would side with Trump and ditch Fox. They can always just find a new news source that reinforces their world views, which Trump constantly does. I’m not sure why you guys think people would leave the cult of personality over a news source when the personality in question says they’re evil, assuming that happens. Because it is fox that is literally everywhere, and is mandated to be broadcast in all US military facilities, including air force carriers, is in so many hotel chains public spaces, including breakfast rooms -- and the staff isn't allowed to change the channel. etc. And it has been THE SOURCE for decades now. And if they dumped rump, it wouldn't change fox's essential mission and message. -- they just dumped this particular messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 hours ago, fionwe1987 said: Nope. Those same people have been hurt far worse by Biden's actions during his career. Yet he suffers a lot less for it. Biden's dropping in the polls. He was the front runner for 99 percent of the time. As people begin to make more informed decisions, many think, "I don't want Biden or Harris." But race it up if you want. Maybe there is a component of race in that Harris is a woman of color and people are more disappointed in her history of hurting people of color because she is a person of color. You too, Brutus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Attorneys General do not make the laws that discriminate against black people. Joe Biden and congress critters make (made) laws. An AG's job is to determine whether a law was broken and sufficient evidence exists to prosecute. God damn that black woman for doing her job as stipulated by legislative action. God damn her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Because there are a lot of transactional Republicans who like the results that Trump has been able to get (2 SC justices, tax cut, defeated Hillary), but don't go in for the cult of personality. They would definitely be classified as approving of Trump in poll results, but that doesn't mean they love Trump if he starts to be a liability for Republicans going forward. And that would essentially be why Fox News would abandon him. I know, but those people are in the minority (at least I believe so). I also suspect they’re the ones most aware of how this could split the party, and therefore will be the ones willing to compromise because (i) they already have and (ii) anything is better than letting a liberal win. 2010 showed us that the base was beginning to understand that the power rested with them, and 2016 was the culmination of that. This is Trump’s party now, and Fox can either get on board or get eaten alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I know, but those people are in the minority (at least I believe so). I also suspect they’re the ones most aware of how this could split the party, and therefore will be the ones willing to compromise because (i) they already have and (ii) anything is better than letting a liberal win. 2010 showed us that the base was beginning to understand that the power rested with them, and 2016 was the culmination of that. This is Trump’s party now, and Fox can either get on board or get eaten alive. And that's a danger that didn't exist in 2010. Now that corporations are people and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Attorneys General do not make the laws that discriminate against black people. Joe Biden and congress critters make (made) laws. An AG's job is to determine whether a law was broken and sufficient evidence exists to prosecute. God damn that black woman for doing her job as stipulated by legislative action. God damn her! Worse, she was REALLY GOOD at it. HOW DARE SHE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, Jace, Basilissa said: And that's a danger that didn't exist in 2010. Now that corporations are people and all. Corporations have been persons for a long time. They have legal personality, but not actual personality...except maybe Wendy's twitter account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said: Corporations have been persons for a long time. They have legal personality, but not actual personality...except maybe Wendy's twitter account. Can I riff? Sometimes I'm just riffing. Sadly my little reaction button is still silenced from my excessive use last evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin of Ice Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I know, but those people are in the minority (at least I believe so). I also suspect they’re the ones most aware of how this could split the party, and therefore will be the ones willing to compromise because (i) they already have and (ii) anything is better than letting a liberal win. 2010 showed us that the base was beginning to understand that the power rested with them, and 2016 was the culmination of that. This is Trump’s party now, and Fox can either get on board or get eaten alive. For those who are politically active, sure. They’d dump Fox if it doesn’t tell them what they want to hear. However those of us who are politically tuned in, pay attention to the news and are committed to a point of view are a small minority. (Historically, at least. Dumpster Fire is changing that.) If you hit some of those low info, don’t pay much attention to politics folks with Fox News turning against Trump, not to mention wishy washy independents and various others, it will have an impact. And Trump has zero room to spare from 2016. It takes very, very little to turn his narrow victory into a big defeat, especially now that so many independents and "Anyone but Clinton" types have seen his true colors. A small percentage of Republicans and low information voters sitting out an election instead of voting for him will more than do it. Just because you won’t get every, or even a majority of Republicans to change their minds doesn’t mean that a small to medium percentage of them doing so won’t have any effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 “Oh well I’m the president” screams dictator that does what ever he wants. Also a great modern example as to why the presidency should be abolished. Power structures are dangerous. Especially when you have armed wings of government protecting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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