Football: dropping clangers and scoring bangers

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

Just a quick question for Arsenal fans - does anyone take these guys seriously?

Not talking about "it's time for Mourinho" since wanting him is basically personal preference but saying that Emery is mid-table manager is insane. Don't have the data before me at the moment but the guy won for 3-4 EL for years in a row, kept the pace with Barca and Real pretty well all things considered. He hasn't been as successful with Arsenal obviously, but how much of that is manager's fault, really? Didn't Arsenal board say last summer (or was it the summer before?) that basically there's no money for transfers? And that's with Emery inheriting Wenger's squad that was in need of a rebuild in the first place.

It's clear that Emery is not the only problem at the club, I'd say he's not even the main problem but I wouldn't mind being shown the error of my ways.

Winning the Europa League is different then maintaining consistent success in the PL over the course of a long season. His tactics, which basically attempts to identify the opponents strength and neutralize it, has not worked and worse, has given Arsenal no style of their own to impose on teams. They are outplayed and outshot every game, have no fluidity to their side, are passive in their attack and defense and have shown no improvement in the time that he’s been there. And worst of all, an absolute bore to watch. Not only that but the rumors of his inability to communicate and connect with his players is getting more and more pronounced, a problem that he has had at other teams. Players don’t seem to understand what Emery wants from them and that’s an issue.

As for transfers, they’ve brought in enough. They do need more players but this squad is good enough for top 4 in a capable managers hand and I don’t think Emery has shown he is that with this team. Only reason Arsenal has done ok this year has been individual moments of brilliance from his strikers and that is highly unreliable as they are finding out lately.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

 Didn't Arsenal board say last summer (or was it the summer before?) that basically there's no money for transfers? And that's with Emery inheriting Wenger's squad that was in need of a rebuild in the first place.

Yeah, not buying this at all. I don't know how much of arsenal you see to think that the issues are the players. It isn't - he has a much better squad this season than last season and he's struggling because he doesn't know what he wants the players to do.

I know the temptation is to say 'it's not just the manager' - but I think people who say that haven't 1. Watched arsenal since unai took charge, especially this season & 2. haven't had a glance at our squad for this season compared to last season.

It's not even just the results - it's the performances. They have been abject all season, even in the games we've won. The most damning thing about Emery is that this thread ( when he was appointed) is pretty much completely spot on with reference to his time at arsenal

 

Lastly, I would be willing to give it time if I saw *any* sign of improvement on the pitch - but we're dire and have been all season. Also, with no signs of progress & with no one having any idea of what he wants his squad to do, it's hard to feel like he has any idea on how to take the team forward.

 

[Consigliere]

11 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Mourinho has been shamelessly campaigning for the Arsenal job this past week through his usual shills in the press.  But now the Bayern job is available, will he suddenly switch his sights? 

I don’t know if Bayern’s “boot room” of former players would accept his toxic culture or his negative football, but it’s certainly appealing for Mourinho to have an easy route to titles in yet another league, and to have a decent shot at a CL while Barca and RM deal with the end of a generation. 

It's a no-brainer really. If Mourinho has a shot at the Bayern job then he will definitely pick them over Arsenal. Bayern have a much better squad and he will be guaranteed to win domestic titles with them. Obviously the issues with Mourinho are his toxic nature and short-termism so you really don't want him for more than two seasons and he will cost a lot in terms of wages (15-20m/year). Idk, maybe Bayern can look at someone like Ralf Rangnick until the end of the season and then try to prize away Ten Hag from Ajax. Allegri is available too but I don't think he speaks German which would be a major stumbling block.

 

Mourinho would be a bad choice for Arsenal. City and Liverpool are too far ahead of everyone else so no other clubs will be challenging for the title in the next few years. Mourinho's ego will not be able to take living in the shadows of Guardiola and Klopp so things would sour very quickly - even sooner than usual, I think. 

[Raja]

I wouldn't mind seeing Arteta given a go, tbh. But I'm not sure he would come to us after we snubbed him once.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

WRT to the Bayern Manager vacancy.

THey are pretty much in the same position they were, when they hired Kovac.

Job ad still reads the same.

Biggest club in Germany needs new manager.

On offer highest profile position in German football. Squad that is strong enough to win domestic titles. Sufficient funds to make a marque signing or two.

Demands:

Win the league convincingly, win the German Cup (or at the very least make it to the semi-finals), reach the semi-final in the CL (QF bare minimum).

Knowledge of the German language.

 

They probably still rue their indecisiveness over Tuchel back then.

The media has named the three unsurprising frontrunners right now.

Rangnick, Mourinho, Allegri. With Bayern rumoredly harbouring some hopes that Tuchel might become available (he would surely be their first choice now, as Klopp is obviously not available). Part of me wonders, whether the name Streich will pop up again, and I am somewhat curious whether he would take that offer, as I think he is perfectly capable of saying. I don't need that shit, I am quite happy with my life in Freiburg.

[ljkeane]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Mourinho would be a bad choice for Arsenal. City and Liverpool are too far ahead of everyone else so no other clubs will be challenging for the title in the next few years. Mourinho's ego will not be able to take living in the shadows of Guardiola and Klopp so things would sour very quickly - even sooner than usual, I think. 

Yeah, I think there's a bit of tendency recently to underestimate Mourinho's good qualities as a manager because he's a knob and people don't like him, he's still got a fantastic record. Having said that he's clearly only a short term option at this stage and at the moment it's hard to see anyone other than City or Liverpool winning the Premier League so what's the point of putting up with all the negatives Mourinho brings.

I've said it before but I think all of the old top six sides other than City and Liverpool should be targeting a title challenge in the 21/22 season. Guardiola's contract runs out the end of the previous season and Klopp will probably be in the last year of his Liverpool contract so there's a decent potential for both sides to decline that year. Arsenal and all the others need to put in place the structure to make steady improvements over the next couple of seasons to take advantage though. 

[baxus]

2 hours ago, Mexal said:

As for transfers, they’ve brought in enough. They do need more players but this squad is good enough for top 4 in a capable managers hand and I don’t think Emery has shown he is that with this team. Only reason Arsenal has done ok this year has been individual moments of brilliance from his strikers and that is highly unreliable as they are finding out lately.

Not sure that a squad captained by Xhaka* would be good enough for top 4 usually, but since at the moment Chelsea is restructuring, United is plain awful and Tottenham seems to be imploding for some reason.

I must say that I've seen very little of Arsenal this season and that's the main reason I asked for Arsenal fans' opinion.

*Not a comment on Xhaka's quality as a player but on the fact that appointment someone who behaves the way Xhaka does as captain might be indicative of more problems with the squad.

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Yeah, not buying this at all. I don't know how much of arsenal you see to think that the issues are the players. It isn't - he has a much better squad this season than last season and he's struggling because he doesn't know what he wants the players to do.

I know the temptation is to say 'it's not just the manager' - but I think people who say that haven't 1. Watched arsenal since unai took charge, especially this season & 2. haven't had a glance at our squad for this season compared to last season.

It's not even just the results - it's the performances. They have been abject all season, even in the games we've won. The most damning thing about Emery is that this thread ( when he was appointed) is pretty much completely spot on with reference to his time at arsenal

As I already said, I haven't seen much of Arsenal this season and I'm glad to learn more about what's going on at Arsenal.

Still, while I'm not trying to absolve Emery of any responsibility but I'm not sure it's all his fault. Arsenal fans (don't know if it was a majority or a VERY loud minority) have already thought that getting rid of Wenger was the solution to clubs problems and we all see how that turned out.

[Iskaral Pust]

45 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

WRT to the Bayern Manager vacancy.

THey are pretty much in the same position they were, when they hired Kovac.

Job ad still reads the same.

Biggest club in Germany needs new manager.

On offer highest profile position in German football. Squad that is strong enough to win domestic titles. Sufficient funds to make a marque signing or two.

Demands:

Win the league convincingly, win the German Cup (or at the very least make it to the semi-finals), reach the semi-final in the CL (QF bare minimum).

Knowledge of the German language.

 

They probably still rue their indecisiveness over Tuchel back then.

The media has named the three unsurprising frontrunners right now.

Rangnick, Mourinho, Allegri. With Bayern rumoredly harbouring some hopes that Tuchel might become available (he would surely be their first choice now, as Klopp is obviously not available). Part of me wonders, whether the name Streich will pop up again, and I am somewhat curious whether he would take that offer, as I think he is perfectly capable of saying. I don't need that shit, I am quite happy with my life in Freiburg.

Are they really the only front-runners?  What about ten Hag or Nagelsmann?  I thought they would be hipster possibilities at least. 

And what about their huge pool of former players?  If Giggs and Solskjaer can get a shot at United, and Lampard is actually succeeding at Chelsea so far, then there must be some segment who would push for a former player. 

[Mark Antony]

Would love to see Wenger at Bayern 

[Consigliere]

Idk about Wenger. The season is far from over for Bayern. They have a strong squad, 4 points off the top in the league, still in the DFB Pokal and in a good position in their CL group. A league and cup double is definitely still on as well as a decent run in the CL. I feel like people sometimes tend to get all misty eyed and nostalgic and view things through rose tinted glasses. Seemed clear to me that the game had passed Wenger by. 

[Philokles]

I don't see why Rangnick would take a short term deal at Bayern when he has got pretty much his perfect setup at Leipzig already. That's even if he wants a club managerial role at all. He could easily have taken over full time at RBL when he was interim manager twice, but was happy to wait for Hasenhüttl and Nagelsmann to become available.

Honigstein is reporting that Bayern aren't interested in Mourinho but are in Erik ten Hag. They would need to wait until the end of the season in all likeliness for him. That would seem the most likely way Wenger would be appointed, as an interim manager until the end of the season. Or they could try and get Heynckes again, or keep Hansi Flick if he does well as caretaker.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Are they really the only front-runners?  What about ten Hag or Nagelsmann?  I thought they would be hipster possibilities at least. 

And what about their huge pool of former players?  If Giggs and Solskjaer can get a shot at United, and Lampard is actually succeeding at Chelsea so far, then there must be some segment who would push for a former player. 

Nagelsmann and Kohfeldt (Bremen) are presumably lacking a bit of stature right now. And Nagelsmann just moved to Leipzig, so not sure whether he is willing to just pack up and leave, and if he feels ready for the shark tank, that is Bayern - and whether Leipzig would play ball. Add to that, that they just got burned to some degree with a younger manager. And Kovac was the former player option. And I really have a hard time coming up with a former player that wouldn't look utterly ridiculous as managerial appointment. The only one that might be remotely acceptable would probably be Scholl. But he quit his gig as Bayern II manager back then to work as a pundit. I mean seriously, which former player is there? Matthäus? That would be great for comedy value. Effenberg, even more so.

ten Hag's name might pop up. But he is under contract, so that's probably more an option for next season (pretty much like Nagelsmann at the earliest).

3 hours ago, Philokles said:

I don't see why Rangnick would take a short term deal at Bayern when he has got pretty much his perfect setup at Leipzig already. That's even if he wants a club managerial role at all. He could easily have taken over full time at RBL when he was interim manager twice, but was happy to wait for Hasenhüttl and Nagelsmann to become available.

Yes, and no. The question is more whether Rangnick would be willing to pick up a manager role at all. He became Sporting Director/Director of Football for that Mateschitz (fuck that guy btw.) football branch for a reason. Namely, that he quit as a manager, because he was suffering from a burnout. And Bayern is a very gruesome market with all the media pressure. He only filled in at Leipzig in order to fill the gap before his first choice manager became available. I don't think he did it happily. It was more like, he had the coaching lincenses to do it, and it was clear that it would only be short term. If he had promoted their reserve manager, and they had delivered, then there would've been some pressure to make those appointments permanent. So this way, there wasn't any such discussions. But on the other hand, it's Bayern, so that alone might be tempting enough.

[Mexal]

6 hours ago, baxus said:

Not sure that a squad captained by Xhaka* would be good enough for top 4 usually, but since at the moment Chelsea is restructuring, United is plain awful and Tottenham seems to be imploding for some reason.

I must say that I've seen very little of Arsenal this season and that's the main reason I asked for Arsenal fans' opinion.

*Not a comment on Xhaka's quality as a player but on the fact that appointment someone who behaves the way Xhaka does as captain might be indicative of more problems with the squad.

Manager made that choice. There are others he could have chosen. That being said, from all reports, Xhaka is loved in the locker room and his recent actions towards the fans has been bubbling for awhile since the fans have been horrible (do not check his social media).

[Raja]

 

[Mark Antony]

hate this

 

love this

[AncalagonTheBlack]

1 hour ago, Mark Antony said:

hate this

 

love this

Winning both with two teams would be sweet!

[AncalagonTheBlack]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:37 PM, A Horse Named Stranger said:

WRT to the Bayern Manager vacancy.

Solved!

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Here we go,

Liverpool: Alisson, Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Van Dijk, Milner, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Salah, Origi.

Subs: Adrian, Lovren, Firmino, Mane, Lallana, Robertson, Jones.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

41 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Every second touch of Milner's has been dreadful so far.

It'd be nice if we could play some passes for Salah to move on to, rather than having him running away from the goal to receive the ball all the time.

Milner is now the odd one out in this team.Way past it now.Slows everything down.Robertson will have to come on.We have been too casual after scoring.

[Iskaral Pust]

Nice that we could rotate the team a bit tonight, even if Milner always looks too slow to replace TAA or Robertson.

Strange that Salah started considering he has been struggling with an injury, but I guess he has played fewer minutes than Mane or Firmino in recent weeks.  His shooting is still letting him down badly.  Nice to see both Keita and Ox looking sharp.

Hopefully we can score another and close this out without too much fuss/injury/fatigue.