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Why does Balon Greyjoy want to attack the North?


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14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They were both ill-prepared with the Russians effectively using a scorched earth strategy. This obviously didn't happen when Balon invaded the North, did it? They didn't even try something like that. Instead, thanks to Robb, the Northmen themselves do no longer have sufficient winter provisions for themselves - and the Ironborn captured what they had at the castles they took.

Unless the Ironborn started stupid campaigns in the middle of winter they would be perfectly safe within the castles they took. And they could have taken more castles during autumn if Balon hadn't died and his campaign had continued.

What castles are there to take? Ryswell keep, Barrowton? maybe some minor castles but they are too far inland for the iron born to hold onto. 
Closest strategic castles to deepwood motte are bear island, Torrhens square, castle cerwyn, and winterfell. Bear island I can easily see them taking it and holding it for a long time. 
Moat Cailin is right next to the two of the most powerful houses in the north. White harbour and Barrowton. 
You see if the iron born move against inland castles like cerwyn, I’d be suicide. Whilst if they try to threaten manderly or Dustin/Ryswell land it would also be stupid because these houses can raise quite allot of men together, especially if the small folk feel threatened.

Asha had the right of it. The north is too big and too full of northmen to tame. Maybe a smarter iron born king can do it, but not balon or bloody Victorian who’s as dull as a cow.

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25 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Others have pointed out that the Riverlands are much more fertile than other the North, while the vast amounts of Northern land aren't that valuable.

Often without quotes. Do you have a citation that vast amounts of land arent that valuable?

And what does that even mean, the norths half of westeros, vast amount of land thats not that valuable could still leave the North with triple the Riverlands resources

25 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

 Another point thing is that the Riverlands are, as the name implies, full of rivers, which Ironborn/Vikings are able to navigate in their longships. The North is far less suited to their talents.

For sure, but Robb was in the Riverlands with his crack army, his home was for the taking however

25 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

. Finally, the RIverlands have been repeatedly conquered by other people, whereas the north remains religiously distinct precisely because it resisted any incursion of southrons.

By other people? You mean Ironborn (and I guess Targ/Stark but id call that liberation) lol.

28 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Pre-modern history was characterized by Malthusian conditions. You want to control fertile land, and if you kill the people currently on said land, it can just be repopulated. The North is permanently less desirable than the Riverlands.

The Riverlands are on fire, its not fertile. Permanently it (perhaps, im still not convinced) may give more resources then the North but certainly not temporary. 

30 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

The Ironborn got around it with ships, but they're not the only people with ships. However, even after you bypass that it's still hard to hold northern territory.

Robb made it easy but abandoning all of his strategically placed fortifications

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59 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

What castles are there to take? Ryswell keep, Barrowton? maybe some minor castles but they are too far inland for the iron born to hold onto. 
Closest strategic castles to deepwood motte are bear island, Torrhens square, castle cerwyn, and winterfell. Bear island I can easily see them taking it and holding it for a long time. 
Moat Cailin is right next to the two of the most powerful houses in the north. White harbour and Barrowton. 
You see if the iron born move against inland castles like cerwyn, I’d be suicide. Whilst if they try to threaten manderly or Dustin/Ryswell land it would also be stupid because these houses can raise quite allot of men together, especially if the small folk feel threatened.

Asha had the right of it. The north is too big and too full of northmen to tame. Maybe a smarter iron born king can do it, but not balon or bloody Victorian who’s as dull as a cow.

Not to mention that as powerful as Moat  Caitlin might be, The place is still a ruin, a winter  there =suicide.

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

For sure, but Robb was in the Riverlands with his crack army, his home was for the taking however

And all they ever took was 4 castles. Do you see them going inland?? I don't either.

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

By other people? You mean Ironborn (and I guess Targ/Stark but id call that liberation) lol.

The Durrandons held the place for 300 hundred years.

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Robb made it easy but abandoning all of his strategically placed fortifications

Their hold over Moat  Caitlin is doomed in Winter.

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Often without quotes. Do you have a citation that vast amounts of land arent that valuable?

The North’s population isn’t small because of the harsh winters. It’s also small because of the bad land for farming. The North is the Scotland of the Middle Ages. Reason why England was always stronger than Scotland is because half of the Scottish lands weren’t good farming lands.

You don’t need quotes for things that are just common sense.

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3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

The Riverlands are on fire, its not fertile. Permanently it (perhaps, im still not convinced) may give more resources then the North but certainly not temporary.

If you don't want to permanently hold territory but instead just raid and plunder, that's actually a viable strategy for the Ironborn. But in that case, it's foolish to attack the North, whose low productivity discussed by others makes it the poorest kingdom per acre. Concentrations of portable wealth are going to be found in big cities, which are more common in the south. The Lannisters happen to have a lot of gold, which is a very concentrated form of portable wealth. Contrast that with the pinecones and stones Asha collected.

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3 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

What castles are there to take? Ryswell keep, Barrowton? maybe some minor castles but they are too far inland for the iron born to hold onto. 
Closest strategic castles to deepwood motte are bear island, Torrhens square, castle cerwyn, and winterfell. Bear island I can easily see them taking it and holding it for a long time. 

We really don't know how Balon's campaign would have continued had he lived - but there was still time before winter started (months, in fact) and unlike the Northmen the Ironborn did had time to bring their harvest in and didn't have invaders who messed with their winter provisions.

I guess the plan would have been to continue to take castles and keeps west of Winterfell - Torrhen's Square (which was taken ahead of schedule), whatever Ryswell keeps there are, eventually Barrowton, whatever there is to be had on Cape Kraken, etc.

3 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Moat Cailin is right next to the two of the most powerful houses in the north. White harbour and Barrowton. 
You see if the iron born move against inland castles like cerwyn, I’d be suicide. Whilst if they try to threaten manderly or Dustin/Ryswell land it would also be stupid because these houses can raise quite allot of men together, especially if the small folk feel threatened.

Taking on White Harbor would be very problematic early in the campaign - but Barrowton is a wooden town ruled by a woman from a wooden hall. If Ramsay dreams torching the place it cannot to be that difficult for experienced raiders like the Ironborn who know a thing or two how raid and torch places.

The Dustins and Ryswells only raise a mediocre host to target the remnants of the Ironborn Vic left behind - and they only do so after they know Roose and the Freys are coming north in force.

Perhaps Barbrey would have helped her brothers and cousins - and that could be the reason why Balon did not target the Rills first - but perhaps not. The North is spread so thin that raising any big army is going to completely deplete the lands of any defenders - and if the enemy outmaneuvers you then you lose everything.

3 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Asha had the right of it. The north is too big and too full of northmen to tame. Maybe a smarter iron born king can do it, but not balon or bloody Victorian who’s as dull as a cow.

Asha is basically a craven. She wants to bury the old way and become like the greenlanders - which is not what the Ironborn want. Which is why they join Euron basically to a man.

It would have been an ugly and long business for the Ironborn to conquer half or more of the North - but it is something that they could have done the central authority of the Iron Throne had permanently collapsed.

Euron's dream is utter madness - but Balon's dream was something they could have done.

I mean, regardless how Harwyn took the Riverlands - it is a fact that he could keep them after he took them. And his son and grandson could, too, despite the fact that the Hoares were not all that popular on the Iron Islands and despite the fact that the Riverlanders did definitely outnumber the Ironborn. Yet Harren had so much power over them that he could force them to build him Harrenhal.

The idea that the Northmen would - in the absence of an adult Lord Stark - act as a unified bloc to throw out the Ironborn is actually laughable. There is no basis for this, nor any indication that any group of lords or noblemen lacking a clear leader would ever do that.

The best example how shitty these people can be is the Hightower army in FaB after First Tumbleton. They do have a large army and they are all from the Reach, yet they cannot make common cause, nor even agree who should lead them. The idea that the Northmen could choose a supreme leader/general orchestrating their efforts against the Ironborn is ridiculous - it would not happen, and that would be Balon's advantage. He would take them down one castle at a time - like the Dothraki destroyed the Sarnori.

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2 hours ago, frenin said:

And all they ever took was 4 castles.

Thats impressive man. Stannis only took 1 and Robb only took 2. (Stannis actually takes more then 1 but thats after war of 5)

2 hours ago, frenin said:

 Do you see them going inland??

Yea, why not. Whos gonna stop them, some snow drenched peasants?

2 hours ago, frenin said:

The Durrandons held the place for 300 hundred years.

Huh, interesting. (Not great at westeros history) And before them was a Riverland born Andal?

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Their hold over Moat  Caitlin is doomed in Winter.

Because of the snow drenched peasents?

2 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

The North’s population isn’t small because of the harsh winters. It’s also small because of the bad land for farming. The North is the Scotland of the Middle Ages. Reason why England was always stronger than Scotland is because half of the Scottish lands weren’t good farming lands.

You don’t need quotes for things that are just common sense.

I know the general consensus is that the north is the weakest and hardly populated and Westeros is Great Britan, but frankly, none of thats the case.

Doran admits Dorne is the weakest. Robert and Jojen respectively asked Ned and Bran why the North isnt populated, to which Stark replies it is. Westeros is Westeros. 

Nah man quotes for everything :D Breakfast Lunch and Dinner

26 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

But in that case, it's foolish to attack the North, whose low productivity discussed by others makes it the poorest kingdom per acre. 

Ok, Ill agree to that (even without quotes lol) but still thats not really saying anything. Like Alaska (I totally do not have any statistic to back this up and am 100% assuming)  probably by acre its the poorest state in the union in terms of natural resources. However its also like a third of America and largly inhospitable. However the parts that can support life is bursting with resources. No one would ever claim theyre poor in that, despite being the poorest by acre.

30 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

If you don't want to permanently hold territory but instead just raid and plunder, that's actually a viable strategy for the Ironborn. But in that case, it's foolish to attack the North, whose low productivity discussed by others makes it the poorest kingdom per acre. Concentrations of portable wealth are going to be found in big cities, which are more common in the south. The Lannisters happen to have a lot of gold, which is a very concentrated form of portable wealth. Contrast that with the pinecones and stones Asha collected.

Greyjoys not after money like some Dothraki rider, hes a great lord interested in starting a thriving kingdom. Sure the West is "jucier" as Balon claims but its also more protected, the Norths just sitting there seemingly with a sign saying free stuff.

Ashas just dramatic. The real collection she started was highborn baby hostages. Thats really all ya need to conquer in the feuadal age.

23 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Yes pine cones and stones instead of Gold. Balon is truly the worst king. Robb can give him a run for his money tho. 

Lol jesus. No man, the wost king is fucking Joff. Maybe Renly. 

Certainly not the ones whove to date seen the most success and whos kingly dreams were only dashed by cold bloodied murder

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7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Taking on White Harbor would be very problematic early in the campaign - but Barrowton is a wooden town ruled by a woman from a wooden hall. If Ramsay dreams torching the place it cannot to be that difficult for experienced raiders like the Ironborn who know a thing or two how raid and torch places.

The Dustins and Ryswells only raise a mediocre host to target the remnants of the Ironborn Vic left behind - and they only do so after they know Roose and the Freys are coming north in force.

Perhaps Barbrey would have helped her brothers and cousins - and that could be the reason why Balon did not target the Rills first - but perhaps not. The North is spread so thin that raising any big army is going to completely deplete the lands of any defenders - and if the enemy outmaneuvers you then you lose everything.

So, Ramsay's wet dream, without any reasoning behind it is an indicator that it can't be too  difficult to do??

Is very clear that the Ryswells and  Dustins didn't feel threatened by the IB, otherwise their host wouldn't be mediocre, nor do i know why the fact Barrowton is lead by  a woman is anything significative.

 

11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

So 

15 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Asha is basically a craven. She wants to bury the old way and become like the greenlanders - which is not what the Ironborn want. Which is why they join Euron basically to a man.

Saying a hard truth is not the same as being a graven, neither is having brains.

 

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It would have been an ugly and long business for the Ironborn to conquer half or more of the North - but it is something that they could have done the central authority of the Iron Throne had permanently collapsed.

With how many men?? The IB have 20k men at the very best, being 13k a more believable guess, how would they go inland?? They suck at it, how would they even know where to go?? Taking and holding a place as big as the North, even half of it requires certain  logistics and  manpower the IB simply don't have and  will never find in the locals.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I mean, regardless how Harwyn took the Riverlands - it is a fact that he could keep them after he took them. And his son and grandson could, too, despite the fact that the Hoares were not all that popular on the Iron Islands and despite the fact that the Riverlanders did definitely outnumber the Ironborn. Yet Harren had so much power over them that he could force them to build him Harrenhal.

Well, if you ignore the blatant differences  between the Riverlands and  the North, the Rivermen and  the Northmen and  everything else, the comparation is on point.

 

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The idea that the Northmen would - in the absence of an adult Lord Stark - act as a unified bloc to throw out the Ironborn is actually laughable. There is no basis for this, nor any indication that any group of lords or noblemen lacking a clear leader would ever do that.

The Northmen tend to fight united against any invader, that's what they always have done, the idea that they wouldn't make a common cause to throw them out if the IB became a serious threat is just ludicrous. The adult Stark is even more ludicrous, almost every House in the North sent men to join Rodrik to retake Winterfell, they would act united sooner than later.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The best example how shitty these people can be is the Hightower army in FaB after First Tumbleton. They do have a large army and they are all from the Reach, yet they cannot make common cause, nor even agree who should lead them. The idea that the Northmen could choose a supreme leader/general orchestrating their efforts against the Ironborn is ridiculous - it would not happen, and that would be Balon's advantage. He would take them down one castle at a time - like the Dothraki destroyed the Sarnori.

I don't understand how and  why what the Reach army does reflects in anything what the Northeners would do with the rope  on their neck.

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Thats impressive man. Stannis only took 1 and Robb only took 2. (Stannis actually takes more then 1 but thats after war of 5)

Yeah but we never said Robb had or could take the whole Westerlands because of that with his 6k men did we??

 

22 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

 Yea, why not. Whos gonna stop them, some snow drenched peasants?

Yep, given that those snow drenched peasants are the ones who regularly fight them and  where are they heading?? Is not that they know where are they are. 

 

23 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

 Because of the snow drenched peasents?

That and  mainly because they'd have to guard  a literal ruin in the worst winter  ever, and  even in a regular one, the plan is doomed to fail 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, frenin said:

Yeah but we never said Robb had or could take the whole Westerlands because of that with his 6k men did we??

Nah, he only took one castle ( I said 2 but it was really Roose which was originally Whent, and it wasnt even Roose anyway it was Arya), for all of its glamor Robbs was wasnt successful, Balons was.

You throw numbers around like they mean something, but Theon become the Prince of Winterfell with like a dozen men. Numbers dont mean much, castles do

18 minutes ago, frenin said:

Yep, given that those snow drenched peasants are the ones who regularly fight them and  where are they heading?? Is not that they know where are they are. 

 Im confused, the Ironborn dont know where they are? Theres no maps of inland of the North?

And what? Peasants? Vs soldiers? Especially ironborn, fearsome lot. But really anyone who's dressed in armor with shiny swords, think, like practically the entire smallfolk population of Riverlands vs Rorge with a helmet.

18 minutes ago, frenin said:

That and  mainly because they'd have to guard  a literal ruin in the worst winter  ever, and  even in a regular one, the plan is doomed to fail 

Id rather own the castles in the blizzard then being outside them

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10 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Nah, he only took one castle ( I said 2 but it was really Roose which was originally Whent, and it wasnt even Roose anyway it was Arya), for all of its glamor Robbs was wasnt successful, Balons was.

You throw numbers around like they mean something, but Theon become the Prince of Winterfell with like a dozen men. Numbers dont mean much, castles do

Was he?? I don't know that talking 4 castles is how you rate  the succes, Robb wasn't trying to take every castle in the Westerlands either, his wasn't a campaign of conquest.

Numbers do mean much, Theon became the Prince  of Winterfell with a dozen men and  he was about to get kick out by Rodrik because he had far more than him.

 

14 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Im confused, the Ironborn dont know where they are? Theres no maps of inland of the North?

Having a map means they are going to know where to go, how big are the distances or whether they can find villages, people and  food or just miles of nothing until they arrive, if thet arrive. Does the map points  every danger of the inland??  And more inportantly, since where the IB are any good on foot?? Harwyn was the only exception to them.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

And what? Peasants? Vs soldiers? Especially ironborn, fearsome lot. But really anyone who's dressed in armor with shiny swords, think, like practically the entire smallfolk population of Riverlands vs Rorge with a helmet.

Aren't the armies of Westeros made almost entirely by smallfolk?? Wouldn't those snow drenched peasants perfectly know their lands and  how to attack them??

 

20 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Id rather own the castles in the blizzard then being outside them

Owning the Moat means the difference not very significant, they are still freezing their asses there, the Northeners wouldn't even have to do nothing to kick them out of the Moat, winter  would make the job for them just fine.

And the more people outside in the blizzard the more kamikazes.

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1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

Yes pine cones and stones instead of Gold. Balon is truly the worst king. Robb can give him a run for his money tho. 

Robb is far from Balon, and we still have Joffrey as the worst of all. Stannis also is awful.

Out of the five Robb is either the best or the second best after Renly, not that it count too much, all the rulers in the series are doing a piss poor job.

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10 hours ago, frenin said:

Was he?? 

Yea man Balons war was extremely successful. I get it, dudes an asshole. Took advantages over protagonists, but he was successful

10 hours ago, frenin said:

I don't know that talking 4 castles is how you rate  the succes, Robb wasn't trying to take every castle in the Westerlands either, his wasn't a campaign of conquest.

Didn't stop him from taking the Crag

10 hours ago, frenin said:

Numbers do mean much, Theon became the Prince  of Winterfell with a dozen men and  he was about to get kick out by Rodrik because he had far more than him.

But if his father or sister reinforced him then hed only need another doezen or so to hold the castle indefinitely from any number of soldiers.

Rodrik had 5 times Ramsays men and they all died, numbers are useless in asoiaf 

10 hours ago, frenin said:

Having a map means they are going to know where to go, how big are the distances or whether they can find villages, people and  food or just miles of nothing until they arrive, if thet arrive. Does the map points  every danger of the inland??  And more inportantly, since where the IB are any good on foot?? Harwyn was the only exception to them.

Dagmer did a good job

10 hours ago, frenin said:

Aren't the armies of Westeros made almost entirely by smallfolk?? Wouldn't those snow drenched peasants perfectly know their lands and  how to attack them??

Smallfolk aren't armed though. Thats the job of their lord, is to get them ready for battle. So, no. Smallfolk know their land but not war.

 

10 hours ago, frenin said:

Owning the Moat means the difference not very significant, they are still freezing their asses there, the Northeners wouldn't even have to do nothing to kick them out of the Moat, winter  would make the job for them just fine.

And the more people outside in the blizzard the more kamikazes.

No one likes the cold, but fires a thing. Warm blankets too, or just staying indoors. Winter can be defeated.

Kamikazes? Like a Zero? Peasants arent filled with explosives man, nor do they travel at like 500 mph

10 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Robb is far from Balon, and we still have Joffrey as the worst of all. Stannis also is awful.

Out of the five Robb is either the best or the second best after Renly, not that it count too much, all the rulers in the series are doing a piss poor job.

Why Renly? Hes undiplomatic, stubborn and a showboat. None of his plans got close to becoming into fruition by the time if his death

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27 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Why Renly? Hes undiplomatic, stubborn and a showboat. None of his plans got close to becoming into fruition by the time if his death

Because the competition are:

Balon the king of crabs, the one blind to what he didn't want to see and deaf to what he didn't wanted to hear, refusing to acknowloge what was in his face

Joffrey, the illborn, the Aerys the III, dumb enough to not even close his visor before battle.

Stannis, loved by few, and doesn't know what gratitude is, not a single drop of charisma, more stuborn and even worse at diplomacy than Renly.

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35 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Didn't stop him from taking the Crag

Not just the Crag, I would say. 

Maester Luwin sent Alebelly away and closed his door. “My lords,” he said gravely, “we have had a message from His Grace, with both good news and ill. He has won a great victory in the west, shattering a Lannister army at a place named Oxcross, and has taken several castles as well. He writes us from Ashemark, formerly the stronghold of House Marbrand.”

And this was before him taking the Crag.

But that also shows that the Westerlans were just as poor defended (probably even worst, since Tywin deployed even almost twice as many men) than the North.

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52 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea man Balons war was extremely successful. I get it, dudes an asshole. Took advantages over protagonists, but he was successful

Because he took 4 castles...

 

53 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But if his father or sister reinforced him then hed only need another doezen or so to hold the castle indefinitely from any number of soldiers.

 

His father or sister would need to beat Rodrik's army before that.

 

54 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Rodrik had 5 times Ramsays men and they all died, numbers are useless in asoiaf 

Just as context it seems.

 

55 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Dagmer did a good job

Theon did a good job, Dagmer only returned to a place he knew before.

 

56 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Smallfolk aren't armed though. Thats the job of their lord, is to get them ready for battle. So, no. Smallfolk know their land but not war.

And the Lord can arm them just fine, especially if he needs  them to repel pirates off his lands.

 

58 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Didn't stop him from taking the Crag

No it didn't, was Robb trying to conquest the Westerlands because he took the Crag??

 

59 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Kamikazes? Like a Zero? Peasants arent filled with explosives man, nor do they travel at like 500 mph

No, but peasants do rather die doing something than just freezing to death and they would not have any regards for their lives.

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

No one likes the cold, but fires a thing. Warm blankets too, or just staying indoors. Winter can be defeated.

Not in the Moat, the place is not called a ruin for nothing, the hottest fires could not save  them and  especially not by someone who don't know the Northern winter, that's like saying the Dornish sun can be defeated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Winter can be defeated.

Tell that to Napoleons men. Look at the state Stannis’s men are at. I doubt they would’ve survived if they didn’t have those wolfswood clans as scouts and the northern mountain clans.

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Taking on White Harbor would be very problematic early in the campaign - but Barrowton is a wooden town ruled by a woman from a wooden hall. If Ramsay dreams torching the place it cannot to be that difficult for experienced raiders like the Ironborn who know a thing or two how raid and torch places.

The Dustins and Ryswells only raise a mediocre host to target the remnants of the Ironborn Vic left behind - and they only do so after they know Roose and the Freys are coming north in force.

 Because their lands aren’t threatened.

A women or not Barbrey seems to be a decent ruler and won’t be easily frightened. Barrowton is rumoured to be as strong as house Bolton. And probably richer. I wouldn’t doubt that if the iron born have the intent of taking barrowton the barrow knights would instead decide to meet them on the field. Iron born can fight in sieges but not in an open field against disciplined infantry and cavalry. For this reason I see it hard for the iron born to conquer inland territories since they’d be forced to fight pitched battles on unfavourable conditions. 
Battle of the green fork is a good example of what happens when you don’t bring cavalry into a battle.

14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The North is spread so thin that raising any big army is going to completely deplete the lands of any defenders - and if the enemy outmaneuvers you then you lose everything.

Outmanoeuvring. I doubt it not when you have balon and Victorian. The North is so big that the iron born will also be spread thin if they decide to take inland castles. 
Robb marched his army south and still the strength put together of manderly-Dustin-Ryswell would outnumber the iron born at moat cailin.

 

13 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sure the West is "jucier" as Balon claims but its also more protected

Tywin took most of the westerlander strength with him. You can clearly see this when oxcross was full of green boys and useless reserves. The North probably has more men than the westerlands seeing as Robb Only took half of its strength with him. 

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12 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Because the competition are:

Balon the king of crabs, the one blind to what he didn't want to see and deaf to what he didn't wanted to hear, refusing to acknowloge what was in his face

Joffrey, the illborn, the Aerys the III, dumb enough to not even close his visor before battle.

Stannis, loved by few, and doesn't know what gratitude is, not a single drop of charisma, more stuborn and even worse at diplomacy than Renly.

Thats part of the reason I like Balon, he doesnt let the norms hold him down. Women cant sit the Seastone? Make Asha heir anyway. The Old Ways done and Robert sank your fleet? Build a new one and polish off the crown. He's got heart.

Not sure how that makes Joff a bad king, he was, but not then Id say. He was only at Blackwater to show his face around, if anything it was rather brave

Worse at diplomacy then Renly? Renly never accomplished anything, at least Stannis got some good intel from Jon.

12 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Not just the Crag, I would say. 

Maester Luwin sent Alebelly away and closed his door. “My lords,” he said gravely, “we have had a message from His Grace, with both good news and ill. He has won a great victory in the west, shattering a Lannister army at a place named Oxcross, and has taken several castles as well. He writes us from Ashemark, formerly the stronghold of House Marbrand.”

And this was before him taking the Crag.

But that also shows that the Westerlans were just as poor defended (probably even worst, since Tywin deployed even almost twice as many men) than the North.

Word. I didnt list Ashmark because it gets abandoned. (While Crag only didnt because it became his inlaws house) I dont remember these other several castles, but Ill assume he abandoned them as well.

Robbs war really was drastically different then Balons. Odds stacked against him. Balon, like KL, can watch Victarion and Asha (Tywin and Vargo) war while they chill at home acting like a king on a throne. It reminds me of a Chinese idiom, A man can conquer a kingdom on horseback, but no man can rule a kingdom on horseback.

11 hours ago, frenin said:

that's like saying the Dornish sun can be defeated.

Of course it can dude. Its like 100 million miles away lol. Just stay hydrated. 

Elements, especially severe elements can easily sway an army into victory or defeat, but it cant decided that soley by itself. Only humans can.

10 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Tell that to Napoleons men.

Didn't they leave Moscow in ashes? 

And its a little different, Alexander was in Russia and remained Bonapartes enemy, where as Starks far from the action. Furthermore im pretty sure he had lots of slow cannons with him where as Ironborn do not.

Ya know Genghis conquered Russia in the Winter. When it comes to war nothings impossible, it just usually takes a great commander

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