What if elia and children survive

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, The Wolves said:

Robert has nearly the whole realm at his back when the rebellion happened. He could have fought the Lannisters easily and won.

I'm not sure of that. Robert was not even able to refuse Cersei. Then or after. Even Jon Arryn was playing soft with Tywin.

57 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

The rebels all have blame in the war.

Not Aerys, he was mad. But those who let him go rampage are first responsible for the war.

[The Wolves]

31 minutes ago, frenin said:

Yeah, The mad King is dead and  the kids can be managed properly, there is no reason to kill them if they didn't want to.

 

 

Because the rebels killed his father and  great uncle and  grandfather, because the loyalists would want blood and  the likes of Viserys would want them revenge, because there is a big chance of that happening. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it impossible.

 

 

That didn't start a war because Robert and  Ned were trapped in the Eyrie, Brandon went to KL to get Rhaegar's head, which would've started a war anyway.

The rebels and  the King just spread the what Rhaegar had shat.

 

 

There are many monarchs  in history that punished those who betrayed their family as well, so why would the rebels want to roll the dice when they had a perfectly viable option in Robert??

The rebels didn't kill the children, Tywin Lannister did. 

 

 

They hailed Robert as King before the Trident, they don't give a fuck about Rhaegar and  the Targs by then.

A claim is nothing more than a pretext.

 

 

Aerys then shouldn't have demanded Ned and  Robert's heads And his son shouldn't have abducted Lyanna.

Please give me an example of a boy king anywhere in history growing up and getting power and punishing or starting a war for his dead ancestors? Why would Aegon who is this scenario have his mother, sister, aunt, uncle and the Martells plus his throne and a country to rule throw that into hell? Aegon didn’t punish the green supporters when he came into power or start a war. And I doubt Viserys would want revenge, he is only that way because of the stress and fear of what happened to his family that the rebels did to them. 
 

The rebels killed those kids. When Tywin killed them and presented them to Robert and that useless stupid fuck stood over their bodies and dehumanized them Robert does get blame. Also when they proclaimed Robert king it sealed their deaths. The rebels killed them. 
 

Stop blaming Aerys and Rhaegar for the choices these characters have made. They all had a choice. Jon didn’t have to call the banners when his king demanded Ned and Robert’s head. Ned nor Robert dint have to call their banners either, they could have waited it out. Tywin didn’t have to kill Elia and her children, nor did Robert have to take the throne. They had a choice and right or wrong there are consequences. So yes I’m going to give the rebels their blame in the war. 

[The Wolves]

21 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I'm not sure of that. Robert was not even able to refuse Cersei. Then or after. Even Jon Arryn was playing soft with Tywin.

Not Aerys, he was mad. But those who let him go rampage are first responsible for the war.

I don’t care what anyone says about Rhaegar, but the fact that he saw his father and the danger he was to the realm and wanted him removed is a reason I can’t and won’t dislike him. 
 

Rhaegar was the only one who was doing something regarding Aerys and his craziness. 

[frenin]

1 minute ago, The Wolves said:

Please give me an example of a boy king anywhere in history growing up and getting power and punishing or starting a war for his dead ancestors? Why would Aegon who is this scenario have his mother, sister, aunt, uncle and the Martells plus his throne and a country to rule throw that into hell? Aegon didn’t punish the green supporters when he came into power or start a war. And I doubt Viserys would want revenge, he is only that way because of the stress and fear of what happened to his family that the rebels did to them. 

• Roger Mortimer wasn't killed by the son of the King he overthrew
• Because of vengeance.
• Aegon couldn't punish no one, he was a minor.
• Viserys only prays about getting revenge.

 

5 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

The rebels killed those kids. When Tywin killed them and presented them to Robert and that useless stupid fuck stood over their bodies and dehumanized them Robert does get blame. Also when they proclaimed Robert king it sealed their deaths. The rebels killed them. 
 

This is ludicrous, Tywin killed them, not any of the rebels, the kids didn't have to die, even if Robert was crowned. That's your headcanon.

 

 

8 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Stop blaming Aerys and Rhaegar for the choices these characters have made. They all had a choice. Jon didn’t have to call the banners when his king demanded Ned and Robert’s head. Ned nor Robert dint have to call their banners either, they could have waited it out. Tywin didn’t have to kill Elia and her children, nor did Robert have to take the throne. They had a choice and right or wrong there are consequences. So yes I’m going to give the rebels their blame in the war. 

Yes, Robert and Ned and  everyone had to kill themselves, because then, they are to blame.

 

[frenin]

6 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

I don’t care what anyone says about Rhaegar, but the fact that he saw his father and the danger he was to the realm and wanted him removed is a reason I can’t and won’t dislike him. 
 

That explains all.

[Arthur Peres]

19 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Please give me an example of a boy king anywhere in history growing up and getting power and punishing or starting a war for his dead ancestors? Why would Aegon who is this scenario have his mother, sister, aunt, uncle and the Martells plus his throne and a country to rule throw that into hell? Aegon didn’t punish the green supporters when he came into power or start a war. And I doubt Viserys would want revenge, he is only that way because of the stress and fear of what happened to his family that the rebels did to them. 

Mortimert deposed and killed Edward II, he then became a lover of Queen Isabella and was killed by Edward III, son of Isabella and Edward II.

Viserys was 8 and old enough to remember fleeing from Westeros and already show signs of madness acording to Barristan. He cleary would demand vengence, and he was Aerys named heir.

 

[The Young Maester]

35 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Aegon didn’t punish the green supporters when he came into power or start a war

Because most of em were dead. And those that were left were handled by Cregan Stark. 

36 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

And I doubt Viserys would want revenge, he is only that way because of the stress and fear of what happened to his family that the rebels did to them.

Viserys most have 2 personalities than. Because the one I remembered wouldnt stop yapping about how he was going to take his throne back and kill all the traitors. 

38 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Stop blaming Aerys and Rhaegar for the choices these characters have made. They all had a choice. Jon didn’t have to call the banners when his king demanded Ned and Robert’s head. Ned nor Robert dint have to call their banners either, they could have waited it out. Tywin didn’t have to kill Elia and her children, nor did Robert have to take the throne. They had a choice and right or wrong there are consequences. So yes I’m going to give the rebels their blame in the war. 

Yeah, I really can't respect your opinion after this comment. 

[Arthur Peres]

1 hour ago, The Wolves said:

Robert couldn’t get legitimate children from his wife. His Kingsguard fucked his wife for years and right by him while he was passed out drink, plus fathered her bastard, incestuous children.  His treasurer stole from him. He died and the kingdom is fighting a civil war probably the worst one they ever had. Plus the realm have been left unprepared for a horrible ice zombie invasion. All this happened during and because of Robert’s reign. Let’s not put responsible and Robert together. 
  

The rebels all have blame in the war. I don’t care what reason they did it, just that they are responsible for the past and present state of Westeros. And yes the rebels deserve blame for TWOT5Ks, every decision they made caused the current war. 

So you blame Robert for the deeds of Cersei and LF, and you blame Jon Arryn for getting murder... If anything Robert is the victim in these situations. Robert had plenty of faults but you don't adress any of them and blame him for the action of others...What's next you gonna blame Hoster for getting ill?

The rebels had every right to fight for their lifes, and they don't have any blame for events that happened after their deaths. Cersei and Jaime are the ones that usurped the sucession line and Stannis the one that hold on information without telling anyone then flee the city letting his brother to die.

[The Wolves]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

• Roger Mortimer wasn't killed by the son of the King he overthrew
• Because of vengeance.
• Aegon couldn't punish no one, he was a minor.
• Viserys only prays about getting revenge.

 

This is ludicrous, Tywin killed them, not any of the rebels, the kids didn't have to die, even if Robert was crowned. That's your headcanon.

 

 

Yes, Robert and Ned and  everyone had to kill themselves, because then, they are to blame.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but Mortimer was killed because he took royal power and ruled, not because of vengeance. 
 

Aegon still came into power at 16yrs and there was no punishment from the leftover Greens. 
 

Viserys lived through the death of his father, brother, and mother, his home was taken and him and his baby sister ran out of their home. His niece and nephew murdered and He feared for his life for about 15yrs everyday. He carried the Targaryen name and sister and was responsible for their survival. He had every right to pray for vengeance. 
 

Robert refusing to punish Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys’ murders does make him to blame. Tywin killed those children in Robert’s name and Robert not only accepted the wrapped up mutilated bodies he also rewarded him. And like I said him claiming the throne signed their death warrant, why do you think he sent people after Viserys and Dany? 
 

Robert should have killed himself. He was a horrible king, father, friend and human being. 

[The Wolves]

1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

Because most of em were dead. And those that were left were handled by Cregan Stark. 

Viserys most have 2 personalities than. Because the one I remembered wouldnt stop yapping about how he was going to take his throne back and kill all the traitors. 

Yeah, I really can't respect your opinion after this comment. 

So? There were still people who he would blame for his brothers deaths or his mothers‘ but where was the war started over that? Did Jaehaerys start a whole war with the realm for following his mad uncle, or for killing his brother? Did the Starks destroy whole houses and start multiple wars because their vessels kept rebelling and killing their family? 
 

“Take back the throne” being the key word. Viserys thought this way because he was the only Targaryen male alive and he believes the throne belonged to him. I don’t know why we are talking about Viserys, Aegon would have been proclaimed king(and Aerys decree wouldn’t have mattered)Aegon would have had the Martells(who don’t have any love for Rhaegar or Aerys)and a bunch of nobles one his council to rule. Viserys would not have mattered. 
 

That’s fine. I’m pointing out that everyone have choices and each choice has a consequence. Arryn, Ned and Jon were sitting in an impenetrable castle at the beginning of winter when the rebellion started. They could have waited it out. What was Aerys going to do march to the Vale during winter to get two men? 

[frenin]

15 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but Mortimer was killed because he took royal power and ruled, not because of vengeance. 

That was one of the many charges against him, him overthrowing his King was among those changes too.

 

 

19 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Aegon still came into power at 16yrs and there was no punishment from the leftover Greens. 

Who were those leftover Greens??

 

 

20 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Viserys lived through the death of his father, brother, and mother, his home was taken and him and his baby sister ran out of their home. His niece and nephew murdered and He feared for his life for about 15yrs everyday. He carried the Targaryen name and sister and was responsible for their survival. He had every right to pray for vengeance. 
 

Then you agree he wanted revenge right?? I wont  even get into your double standards here

 

 

22 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Robert refusing to punish Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys’ murders does make him to blame. Tywin killed those children in Robert’s name and Robert not only accepted the wrapped up mutilated bodies he also rewarded him. And like I said him claiming the throne signed their death warrant, why do you think he sent people after Viserys and Dany? 

Robert refusing to punish their murder made him guilty of not punishing those murders, nothing more.

Tywin killed those children in his name.

 

Since Robert only sent people after Viserys and Dany when they were about invade Westeros...

 

24 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Robert should have killed himself. He was a horrible king, father, friend and human being

Lmao.

[frenin]

3 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

They could have waited it out. What was Aerys going to do march to the Vale during winter to get two men? 

Exactly, that's what he would do.

[The Wolves]

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

So you blame Robert for the deeds of Cersei and LF, and you blame Jon Arryn for getting murder... If anything Robert is the victim in these situations. Robert had plenty of faults but you don't adress any of them and blame him for the action of others...What's next you gonna blame Hoster for getting ill?

The rebels had every right to fight for their lifes, and they don't have any blame for events that happened after their deaths. Cersei and Jaime are the ones that usurped the sucession line and Stannis the one that hold on information without telling anyone then flee the city letting his brother to die.

No, I blame Robert for being a horrible king and his reign being the reason that a civil war has happened. His house was not right and yes he has blame. Tell me how he gets so drunk that his wife the queen can have sex right next to him with his Kingsguard which is her brother? How does he not pay attention to his treasure that he’s millions in debt? How does the King who is of House Baratheon be surrounded by Lannister? How does a king go hunting drunk when two great houses are at each other’s throat? Why was Joffery so unprepared for ruling and everything doctrine in him about ruling from his crazy mother? Why was Jaime still a Kingsguard after murdering the previous king? Why was House Lannister rewarded for their treachery and murders? Why wasn’t the Red Keep sweep of people like Pycell and the eunuch? 
 

Everything I mentioned above have helped lead to TWOT5Ks. When did Robert not have the power to change any of these outcomes? He knew what Joffery was and what Cersei was whispering in his ear, yet he wanted to run across the ocean and not fix it. I’m not blaming Robert for anyone’s actions I’m blaming him for the lack of his. 
 

The rebels did have the right to fight for their lives. But they in their right helped throw millions of people’s lives in chaos. They changed the world and reading ASOIAF it wasn’t for the better IMO. 

[The Wolves]

24 minutes ago, frenin said:

That was one of the many charges against him, him overthrowing his King was among those changes too.

 

 

Who were those leftover Greens??

 

 

Then you agree he wanted revenge right?? I wont  even get into your double standards here

 

 

Robert refusing to punish their murder made him guilty of not punishing those murders, nothing more.

Tywin killed those children in his name.

 

Since Robert only sent people after Viserys and Dany when they were about invade Westeros...

 

Lmao.

What double standard? I’m arguing that Viserys has a legit cause to want revenge. People are using Viserys to say “look he did grow up to want revenge” and I’m saying that what was taken from him and what he suffered at the rebels hands at 8yr old is why he wants revenge. 
 

The rebels weren’t doing anything for revenge(unless it was Robert killing Rhaegar)they went to war for self preservation. 

[The Wolves]

30 minutes ago, frenin said:

Exactly, that's what he would do.

No he wouldn’t. Aerys haven’t left the keep for years. His son and heir Is missing and it’s dangerous and stupid to try to march on the Vale in winter. Aint nobody was marching to the Vale. 

[frenin]

18 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

What double standard? I’m arguing that Viserys has a legit cause to want revenge. People are using Viserys to say “look he did grow up to want revenge” and I’m saying that what was taken from him and what he suffered at the rebels hands at 8yr old is why he wants revenge. 

 

18 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

The rebels weren’t doing anything for revenge(unless it was Robert killing Rhaegar)they went to war for self preservation. 

The double standard comes from you blaming the rebels for fighting for their life but at the same time saying that it's perfectly fine if Viserys want revenge.

 

16 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

No he wouldn’t. Aerys haven’t left the keep for years. His son and heir Is missing and it’s dangerous and stupid to try to march on the Vale in winter. Aint nobody was marching to the Vale. 

Yeah, because Aerys can't order his lords or KG to march against the Eyrie right?? It's dangerous and very stupid randomly killing the Lord of the North, the heir of Winterfell, the heir of the vale, several northern, valemen and riverlander highborns and yet he did it anyway.

[BalerionTheCat]

22 hours ago, The Wolves said:

I don’t care what anyone says about Rhaegar, but the fact that he saw his father and the danger he was to the realm and wanted him removed is a reason I can’t and won’t dislike him. 
 

Rhaegar was the only one who was doing something regarding Aerys and his craziness. 

I'm with you on that. There is too much undisclosed about Rhaegar and Lyanna to draw hasty conclusions. Ned lost the most from him. Still, he doesn't seem to imagine him as a rapist.

Quote

For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.

 

22 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Stop blaming Aerys and Rhaegar for the choices these characters have made. They all had a choice. Jon didn’t have to call the banners when his king demanded Ned and Robert’s head. Ned nor Robert dint have to call their banners either, they could have waited it out.

They had to call the banners. If only to stop the insanity. What is insane is that half the kingdom still followed Aerys after he killed Brandon and Rickard Stark, Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn and Jeffory Mallister. Even Tywin would have joined the king without the rebellion. He nearly did it anyway.

[Eli Cross]

Robert hated the Targs.  The trio will need allies to sneak them out of his reach.  But KL was surrounded and it will take somebody like Varys to sneak them out of the besieged city.

[Jeeves]

The difference will be little to none.  Their titles would be taken away for sure.  They will live as prisoners at best.  Robert will still have the throne. 

[Pontius Pilate]

On 10/13/2019 at 9:08 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

How good it did to Viserys!

Illyrio and Varys were more likely preventing Rhaegar to depose his father and stop the madman raving. fAegon is why they did it. Including the plot of debarking mad Viserys with a band of savage dothrakis while they had "true Aegon" in reserve.

That is only a theory on your part.