Ormond Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Separation of church and state goes both ways, and advocating for or against gay marriage is a church explicitly diving into politics and the governments wheelhouse. Now I agree with the idea of eliminating tax exempt status for all religious organizations, but sitting there and asking about how you can believe in separation of church and state and be for removing tax exempt status on religious organizations engaged in politic advocacy is a little odd when it's the religious organization that's the one violated separation of church and state. How could someone come up with that idea while believing in separation of church and state? Because they believe in separation of church and state and churches have been sticking their noses into state affairs for far to long. And the liberal denominations have been advocating FOR same sex marriage, as well as for decent treatment of undocumented immigrants, gun control, and a lot of other "liberal" issues. If you want to do away with all tax exemption, fine, but eliminating it just for some on the basis of their advocating against a current government policy is going to come back and bite you sooner or later. You only have separation of church and state when the government gives the same sort of tax exemption (or lack of same) to all religious denominations. P.S. Here's a link to the PCUSA Office of Public Witness "Take Action" page to show some of what liberal religious advocacy looks like. http://capwiz.com/pcusa/home/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said: I agree with @Ormond. It would be one thing to advocate revoking the tax-exempt status for all religious organizations. Yeah I agree with agreeing with Ormond. I'm all for getting rid of it altogether, but pretty much every church, or even religious organization, ultimately engages in political advocacy one way or another. You think black churches haven't been essential to the Democratic Party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 From WaPo (limited clicks): Turkish forces deliberately firing at U.S. soldiers in yesterday's shelling incident. Quote Turkish forces who launched multiple artillery rounds near a U.S. Special Operations outpost in northeastern Syria on Friday have known for months that Americans were there, according to four current and former U.S. officials, raising questions whether Turkey is trying to push American troops farther from the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I think if you want to limit or based on political activity then it should be on any political activity, not just that one particular issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Anybody see what Warren's doing re: lying Facebook ads? Really interested to see how this lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 hours ago, larrytheimp said: Anybody see what Warren's doing re: lying Facebook ads? Really interested to see how this lands I think it's an interesting tactic and I'm curious to see if it bears fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Whoa. By way of WaPo (CNN link). Trump ordered Sondland to text "no quid pro quo". Quote The US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, is expected to tell Congress this week that President Donald Trump relayed to him directly in a phone call the content of a text message that Sondland sent denying quid pro quo, The Washington Post reported Saturday, citing a person familiar with his testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Ormond said: According to the reporting I've seen, O'Rourke did not advocate for the removal of tax exemption for all churches, but just for those who oppose same sex marriage. I worked for almost 40 years to get my denomination (Presbyterian Church USA) to allow same sex marriage. But the idea of the government deciding which religious organizations do and do not deserve a tax exemption on the basis of their stance on particular issues is abominable. How can someone who believes in the separation of church and state at all even come up with that idea? If he had actually advocated for the elimination of tax exemption for all religious organizations, that would be treating all religions equally. But to use the tax code to reward or punish beliefs the present government agrees with is incredibly dangerous. Do we want the next Republican administration to deny tax exemption to religious organizations that support abortion rights or provide aid to undocumented immigrants? Agreed. When Government starts telling religious organizations what their religious principles must and must not be to receive “tax exempt status” the State is “establishing” an approved State faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin of Ice Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 19 hours ago, Ormond said: According to the reporting I've seen, O'Rourke did not advocate for the removal of tax exemption for all churches, but just for those who oppose same sex marriage. I worked for almost 40 years to get my denomination (Presbyterian Church USA) to allow same sex marriage. But the idea of the government deciding which religious organizations do and do not deserve a tax exemption on the basis of their stance on particular issues is abominable. How can someone who believes in the separation of church and state at all even come up with that idea? If he had actually advocated for the elimination of tax exemption for all religious organizations, that would be treating all religions equally. But to use the tax code to reward or punish beliefs the present government agrees with is incredibly dangerous. Do we want the next Republican administration to deny tax exemption to religious organizations that support abortion rights or provide aid to undocumented immigrants? Yeah... I hate to agree, because I'm directly opposed to what the asshole fundamentalists want and I hate the hold right wing Christianity has had on the political direction of this country during my life, but government showing favor to certain religious groups over others is bad even when it's targeting people I don't agree with or who are using their religion as a club to hurt others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 The Icing on the Giuliani 3 Stooges' Cake -- "Rudy Giuliani’s Ukraine smear case started with splashy Hollywood deal gone bad — and a cameo from Jack Nicholson". This ever-expanding cluster Eff around Ukraine, Russia, the election, campaign donations, the rethugs, the bedbug and all their associates is just so frackin' gangster (not gangsta or gangstar, etc. -- this is all WHITE GUYS and and only an occasional gal, used as honey pot spy, like Maria Butina); it is the mafia. But not like the Coppola mythmaking operatic tragic events of the fictional, filmic Corleone family, or the invitable betrayals and catch-ups of Scorsese in Casino or Good Fellas, but the bloody, yet bumbling gang that couldn't shoot straight -- complete with doses of becoming Hollywood big shotism. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-parnas-giuliani-hollywood-ukraine-jack-20191013-fwvrksqt3rh43bmuxwlzrtmeja-story.html Quote A Hollywood deal that went sideways gave federal investigators clues to unravel the explosive scheme to dig up dirt on Joe Biden in Ukraine — a plot that could land America’s Mayor behind bars. Lev Parnas, one of Rudy Giuliani’s shady Soviet emigre partners in an alleged scheme to boost President Trump’s reelection, also once scammed a friend out of $350,000 that he claimed was a loan to help fund a proposed flick called “Memory of a Killer,” a Long Island federal judge ruled.... .... “The lesson to be learned is to pay your bills,” said Robert Hantman, a lawyer for Michael Pues, the friend bilked by Parnas. “This is a case of arrogance and greed. This never would have come out if he had just paid my client back.” [guess for whom else not playing bills is SOP?] Court papers in the soured movie deal case refer to the questionable donation to America First Action, raising the tantalizing possibility that the illegal cash at the heart of the effort to buy GOP political influence was actually the proceeds of the unpaid debt from “Memory of a Killer.” Court papers in the bad debt case mentioned the political donation, giving prosecutors leads they may have used to build a case against Parnas and Fruman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Zorral said: The Icing on the Giuliani 3 Stooges' Cake -- "Rudy Giuliani’s Ukraine smear case started with splashy Hollywood deal gone bad — and a cameo from Jack Nicholson". This ever-expanding cluster Eff around Ukraine, Russia, the election, campaign donations, the rethugs, the bedbug and all their associates is just so frackin' gangster (not gangsta or gangstar, etc. -- this is all WHITE GUYS and and only an occasional gal, used as honey pot spy, like Maria Butina); it is the mafia. But not like the Coppola mythmaking operatic tragic events of the fictional, filmic Corleone family, or the invitable betrayals and catch-ups of Scorsese in Casino or Good Fellas, but the bloody, yet bumbling gang that couldn't shoot straight -- complete with doses of becoming Hollywood big shotism. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-parnas-giuliani-hollywood-ukraine-jack-20191013-fwvrksqt3rh43bmuxwlzrtmeja-story.html Dafuq? That sounds so incredibly stupid, even by Giuliani standards. At least I know what John Oliver's Last Week Tonight update on Stupid Watergate will feature. At least there are now two comedically silly fall guys with Perry and Giuliani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 i expect fraud cases to be byzantine, baroque--these guys are by contrast using the strategy So Insipid No One Will Ever Believe Adults Tried It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Rojava is no more all thanks to Trump. Scum bag piece of shit. Hervin Khalsa was a Kurdish human right activist, she killed by Turkish backed jihadists. A lot of that is happening. turkey is ethnically cleansing northern Syria, and it’s all thanks to the scumfuck in the White House. and his supporters that voted him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Turkish military / militias are beheading Kurdish fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Saw on BBC that the Kurds are dealing with Assad. Can’t say I blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Everything everybody said would happen is happening and even more. The blowback on the US and US military and US citizens and voters is going to be incalcuble. On top of it all, bedbug's sending of troops and munition to Saudi -- remember what set Osama Bin Laden off? " Pullback Leaves Green Berets Feeling ‘Ashamed,’ and Kurdish Allies Describing ‘Betrayal’ " This is what I've been reading everywhere ever since the announcement of the latest Putin shopping list that bedbug has fulfilled for his masters. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/kurds-syria-turkey-trump.html? Quote “I’m ashamed,” said another officer who had also served in northern Syria. Both officers spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid reprisals from their chains of command. And the response from the Kurds themselves was just as stark. “The worst thing in military logic and comrades in the trench is betrayal,” said Shervan Darwish, an official allied with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. Everything these guys have fought and shed blood, lost friends and limbs, and died for, with a few words from a murderous tyrant (or two) has been snatched away from them -- this is years of their lives! ISIS prisoners escaped and immediately reforming fighting, armed units -- Can't we remove him from office NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Triskele said: So....is there any chance of all out war between Turkey and Syria? Based on no evidence and my own gut feeling? Doubt it. Highly unlikely Assad wants a full scale war against a strong county after a major civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 40 minutes ago, Triskele said: So....is there any chance of all out war between Turkey and Syria? No... at least not between only those two. Keep in mind that Turkey is much more powerful than Syria and is a member of NATO. Realistically, messing with them is just not worth it -- that's why they feel confident enough to invade Syria in the first place. Realistically, the Syrians will go to the UN and ask the Turks to leave and the UN might support them because this is just too flagrant a violation of international law. However, if that doesn't work out, it's just barely possible that Iran will get further involved on behalf of their ally (which at this point is practically a client state). Syria alone against Turkey isn't going to happen, but Iran and Syria against Turkey is not entirely implausible (and NATO may stay out of it because Turkey is clearly the aggressor here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Altherion said: No... at least not between only those two. Keep in mind that Turkey is much more powerful than Syria and is a member of NATO. Realistically, messing with them is just not worth it -- that's why they feel confident enough to invade Syria in the first place. Realistically, the Syrians will go to the UN and ask the Turks to leave and the UN might support them because this is just too flagrant a violation of international law. However, if that doesn't work out, it's just barely possible that Iran will get further involved on behalf of their ally (which at this point is practically a client state). Syria alone against Turkey isn't going to happen, but Iran and Syria against Turkey is not entirely implausible (and NATO may stay out of it because Turkey is clearly the aggressor here). U.N. won't do a thing about Turkey invading Syria. Two permanent members of the Security Council have given them a green light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 8:31 AM, Simon Steele said: Agreed. I think it's a risk, but Beto strikes me as someone who is saying things we've heard for years but current politicians fear conservative backlash (we ARE coming for your AR15s). It's a gamble to get the disenfranchised involved when it could impact the conservatives disenfranchised more than the liberal. But Beto almost beat Cruz on this and I think playing it safe (Biden) keeps more people home. Get voters excited. It's worth remembering that ~75% of Americans are religious, and a lot of them aren't conservative. If all religious people voted conservative there'd be bugger all Democrats in congress or the senate, and there'd never be a Democrat President, past or future. There are plenty of leftish religious people who agree with the religious exemption. It's probably not an issue they will turn their vote on, but it might decrease enthusiam for voting, and would certainly decrease their likelihood of voting Beto in the primaries. Making left and right a religious divide is a losing election strategy for the side that's trying to marginalise religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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