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US politics - When the Barr's so low.

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think a better definition of middle class

this sort of difficulty haunts definitions derived from weberian and durkheimian concepts.  always comical when the beancounters draw a line between one penny and another--this side of the polemos is poverty, that side is not.

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

James Mattis was pretty funny at the Al Smith dinner last night:  "I earned my spurs on the battlefield; Donald Trump earned his spurs from the doctor."

I liked his Meryl Streep comment.  He helped create this monster though.

2 minutes ago, sologdin said:

think a better definition of middle class

this sort of difficulty haunts definitions derived from weberian and durkheimian concepts.  always comical when the beancounters draw a line between one penny and another--this side of the polemos is poverty, that side is not.

There is a moral dimension that is (perhaps) uniquely American associated with poverty, wealth, and definitions thereof.  It makes the lines both funnier and more understandable.

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Only the best people.

Sean Hannity Flips Out Over Mick Mulvaney’s ‘Idiotic’ News Conference
Trump’s acting chief of staff admitted the White House withheld aid from Ukraine for political help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-idiotic-mick-mulvaney_n_5da93bdce4b04c4d24e9dd9e

Quote

 

Fox News host Sean Hannity was stunned on Thursday when White House acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney’s admitted that President Donald Trump withheld aid from Ukraine as a quid pro quo to pressure the country into investigating Democrats. 

“What is Mulvaney even talking about?” Hannity said on his radio show in comments posted online by Media Matters. “I just think he’s dumb. I really do. I don’t even think he knows what he’s talking about. That’s my take on it.” 

Earlier in the day, Mulvaney said that the Trump administration links foreign aid to favors “all the time.”

“I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy,” Mulvaney said. “That is going to happen. Elections have consequences.”

Later, Mulvaney attempted to walk back the admission, claiming the media distorted his comments. Hannity, a staunch Trump defender, insisted the president was innocent, despite Mulvaney’s confession. 

 

 

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WTF Harris Campaign???????

Recall that viral photograph of Pelosi literally standing up to bedbug in a gathering in which it was literally ALL MEN except her?  Someone on Harris's campaign substituted her image standing up for bedbug's.  Was the point supposed to be that Harris can stand up to Pelosi or what?  

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/466386-campaign-aide-replaces-trump-with-kamala-harris-in-viral-meltdown-photo

The aide captioned it, “Time for an upgrade.”

How stupid can people be?  Presumably, he's fired now.

~~~~~~~~~~

In the meantime, Sanford kicks off his campaign in Philly.  1 person showed up.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/mark-sanford-campaign-kickoff-in-philadelphia-donald-trump-2020-20191016.html

Another somebody who is real, real, you know, real smart.

For some reason some NPR program gave Sanford about a half hour interview last week.  He sounded a real idiot, except for saying bedbug has to go.  But his reasons as to why we should all have him instead made no sense at all.

 

 

Edited by Zorral

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Only the best people.

Sean Hannity Flips Out Over Mick Mulvaney’s ‘Idiotic’ News Conference
Trump’s acting chief of staff admitted the White House withheld aid from Ukraine for political help.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-idiotic-mick-mulvaney_n_5da93bdce4b04c4d24e9dd9e

 

I'm still waiting for Hannity to be water boarded.  I don't condone torture, but he volunteered.

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1 hour ago, mormont said:

Re: Pence. Consider this:

- If Trump is gone, as previously noted, something absolutely huge has happened. Something bigger than all the crap that's happened so far. It's not credible that Pence, in that scenario, is unscathed, untainted by any involvement. Politically, he will be damaged goods.

- Following on from that, if Trump is gone, he's going to turn on his former allies, including Pence. It will be vicious and public and he will dish any dirt he has and make up more. 

- And if Trump is gone, depending on timing, Republicans may not meekly turn over the nomination to a weakened Pence. Some may see an opportunity. 

In sum, if Trump is gone, Pence is not going to serenely walk onto the main stage as if nothing has happened. He's going to be neck deep in shit from the start, with significant obstacles to being elected to overcome. 

Yeah, these are all important things to remember. I see a lot of "but wouldn't President Pence be worse?" talk, and the easy answer is "no". 

1) Pence doesn't command the loyalty of Trump's base, so they're not going to support him no matter what he does like they do with Trump. 

2) Other Republicans aren't scared of Pence like they are of Trump.

3) Not much has been said about this, but Trump makes sure that Pence is involved in some way with every shady thing that goes on under Trump's watch - just look at how he involved Pence in the Ukraine scandal. You can be rest assured: if Dear Leader goes down, he's going to take Pence down with him (and Pompeo, Barr, and probably a few others for good measure).

What's very interesting to me is that, despite Yertle the Turtle's campaign bluster about being the one who will stop impeachment dead in its tracks, he has already committed to holding the impeachment trial in the Senate. Which to me means he's getting enough pressure from his caucus to run this thing above-board. Which means that there are probably more Republican Senators who think that there may be more "there" there than have publicly made statements about the inquiry.

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29 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Yeah, these are all important things to remember. I see a lot of "but wouldn't President Pence be worse?" talk, and the easy answer is "no". 

1) Pence doesn't command the loyalty of Trump's base, so they're not going to support him no matter what he does like they do with Trump. 

2) Other Republicans aren't scared of Pence like they are of Trump.

3) Not much has been said about this, but Trump makes sure that Pence is involved in some way with every shady thing that goes on under Trump's watch - just look at how he involved Pence in the Ukraine scandal. You can be rest assured: if Dear Leader goes down, he's going to take Pence down with him (and Pompeo, Barr, and probably a few others for good measure).

What's very interesting to me is that, despite Yertle the Turtle's campaign bluster about being the one who will stop impeachment dead in its tracks, he has already committed to holding the impeachment trial in the Senate. Which to me means he's getting enough pressure from his caucus to run this thing above-board. Which means that there are probably more Republican Senators who think that there may be more "there" there than have publicly made statements about the inquiry.

The Trump-Pence "suicide pact" is partly why I think Moscow Mitch will support Trump to the bitter end and beyong.  The last thing they want is Interim President Pelosi going into an election.  The manacles on the DoJ would finnally be removed, and the democrats aren't going to have any reason to hold back after the GOP's behavior.  There's an entire generation of Democrats that are pretty much ready to scream "Lock them up," and at this point El Naranja is just literally admitting his crimes in television interviews.

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32 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

3) Not much has been said about this, but Trump makes sure that Pence is involved in some way with every shady thing that goes on under Trump's watch - just look at how he involved Pence in the Ukraine scandal. You can be rest assured: if Dear Leader goes down, he's going to take Pence down with him (and Pompeo, Barr, and probably a few others for good measure).

It’s classic mafia behavior. You make everyone complicit in the crime so they don’t break ranks (i.e., Trump’s fixation on loyalty). It’s worth noting that Trump’s mentor, Roy Cohn, was a mafia lawyer, and also, it was nearly impossible to work in construction in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s in NYC without interacting with the mob. There are a number of stories that pretty clearly connect Trump to mob and I’m still shocked it’s not covered more.

Also, on the subject about what happens if Trump is removed, why haven’t more people speculated that he’d run again? Who knows what the outcome would be, but as long as he’s not in prison, I see no reason to see why he wouldn’t give it a shot.

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11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It’s classic mafia behavior. You make everyone complicit in the crime so they don’t break ranks (i.e., Trump’s fixation on loyalty). It’s worth noting that Trump’s mentor, Roy Cohn, was a mafia lawyer, and also, it was nearly impossible to work in construction in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s in NYC without interacting with the mob. There are a number of stories that pretty clearly connect Trump to mob and I’m still shocked it’s not covered more.

Also, on the subject about what happens if Trump is removed, why haven’t more people speculated that he’d run again? Who knows what the outcome would be, but as long as he’s not in prison, I see no reason to see why he wouldn’t give it a shot.

If Trump gets impeached and convicted, he'll go to prison.  The antipathy of the majority of the country won't let him fade into the woodwork.  I hope anyway.

Edited by argonak

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, on the subject about what happens if Trump is removed, why haven’t more people speculated that he’d run again? Who knows what the outcome would be, but as long as he’s not in prison, I see no reason to see why he wouldn’t give it a shot.

Isn't there a rule that if the Senate convicts they will also need to pass a sentence which involve barring him from holding any kind of public office, or not. There's a judge who got impeached, but then was able to run for a different office later.

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23 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Isn't there a rule that if the Senate convicts they will also need to pass a sentence which involve barring him from holding any kind of public office, or not. There's a judge who got impeached, but then was able to run for a different office later.

I thought that was a state level thing, but a quick Google search says Article 1, Section 3, Clause 7 prohibits individuals from holding office after they’ve been impeached and removed from office.

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Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

removal from office and disqualification from future office are two separate remedies, maybe? it might be that the issues a severable under the senate's rules insofar as removal is automatic on a conviction but disqualification requires a separate vote.

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3 hours ago, argonak said:

If Trump gets impeached and convicted, he'll go to prison.  

I do not believe this is true. If he's impeached he will be removed from office, and perhaps barred from holding office again, but any prison time would require a separate conviction in another court besides the Senate. 

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So ... Hillary, like so many, believe that Gabbard's a Putin stooge, to pull as an independent 3rd candidate in the election.

So much money, Putin, to subvert the US, the UK, the EU, Ukraine, Turkey -- and now yet another stooge playing politician here.  Where did you get all that frackin' moola?  I dunno --bedbug announced that the US now owns all of the oil in the Middle East. >?< :dunno:

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1 hour ago, Ormond said:

I do not believe this is true. If he's impeached he will be removed from office, and perhaps barred from holding office again, but any prison time would require a separate conviction in another court besides the Senate. 

Yes.  The Senate is limited in the sanction it can apply.  He would need to be criminally indicted and criminally convicted before he could see jail time.

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11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So ... Hillary, like so many, believe that Gabbard's a Putin stooge, to pull as an independent 3rd candidate in the election.

So much money, Putin, to subvert the US, the UK, the EU, Ukraine, Turkey -- and now yet another stooge playing politician here.  Where did you get all that frackin' moola?  I dunno --bedbug announced that the US now owns all of the oil in the Middle East. >?< :dunno:

I caught that story too, and it seems like she said that Jill Stein was a Russian asset like it was something everyone knew. I'm a little surprised she just came out and said it, but maybe these days require more politicians saying what they really think.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/hillary-clinton-suggests-tulsi-gabbard-is-being-groomed-by-russia-for-third-party-run

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32 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yes.  The Senate is limited in the sanction it can apply.  He would need to be criminally indicted and criminally convicted before he could see jail time.

I’m sure the SDNY has a lot of dirt on him and they’re waiting to pounce, but setting that aside, what are the statutes of limitations on federal obstruction charges?

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53 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So ... Hillary, like so many, believe that Gabbard's a Putin stooge, to pull as an independent 3rd candidate in the election.

So much money, Putin, to subvert the US, the UK, the EU, Ukraine, Turkey -- and now yet another stooge playing politician here.  Where did you get all that frackin' moola?  I dunno --bedbug announced that the US now owns all of the oil in the Middle East. >?< :dunno:

The situation did allow Corey Booker to win the Twitter comments though...

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removal from office pursuant to impeachment to protect the office, yeah; senate lacks jurisdiction to punish the underlying offense.

18 USC 3282 - five year statute of limitation for non-capital offenses, running from the date of the offense.  the question becomes whether the statute is tolled by the immunity conferred by the office.

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15 minutes ago, sologdin said:

removal from office pursuant to impeachment to protect the office, yeah; senate lacks jurisdiction to punish the underlying offense.

18 USC 3282 - five year statute of limitation for non-capital offenses, running from the date of the offense.  the question becomes whether the statute is tolled by the immunity conferred by the office.

Much appreciated. As to the bolded, (i) Congress needs to pass a law to clear that up and (ii) it probably won’t matter with Trump. I suspect his behavior would get even worse if he won a second term which would likely lead to him getting charged after leaving office in 2025.

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