Sophelia Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 This march is massive, slow going I'm less than half way to Trafalgar Square so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Government lost to the Letwin amendment and only got 306 votes to Letwin's 322. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Letwin amendment passes Boris Johnson thanks everyone for giving up their time but says alas the opportunity to have a meaningful vote has been passed up. He says he is not dismayed by the result. He continues in the strong belief that the best thing for the UK and the EU is to leave on 31 October. "I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/19/brexit-mps-vote-boris-johnson-deal-super-saturday-erg-tory-rebels-labour-live-news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Mindwalker said: "I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so." Someone better pass him a spade to start digging that ditch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Bercow said that was probably just a figure of speech. Gotta love that sneaky dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 The fact Letwin only won by 16 looks very grim for Remain. If eight or more of the votes for Letwin are independent Tory votes who intend to back the deal (not all of whom backed Letwin) then it looks like Boris has the numbers for the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Yep, Brexit is happening good and hard I'm afraid. All you need to do to see this is find 8 mps who did vote for Letwin or abstained but do intend to vote for the deal. And it is depressingly easy to find at least six: Onn, Champion (from Labour) Boles, Clarke, Letwin, Sanbach (Con). If you give Boris Hammond (maybe not) Gauke and Lady Hermon it is over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Oddly Kate Hoey voted against the Letwin motion, even though I thought she wasn't backing the deal out of loyalty to the DUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said: Oddly Kate Hoey voted against the Letwin motion, even though I thought she wasn't backing the deal out of loyalty to the DUP. Presumably she wants a no deal Brexit, or at least thinks it preferable to delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 So, does a VONC go through the moment an extension request is made? The delay has been (ostensibly) to force the request, and the request wil be allowed if parliament is rebelling like that (but may not just to let us talk about it) The longer Pasty Cockwomble is left in #10, the worse his election chances, so does Corbyn hold off in the hopes of an extension anyway, gamble on a denial of this deal, and then file VONC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Which Tyler said: So, does a VONC go through the moment an extension request is made? The delay has been (ostensibly) to force the request, and the request wil be allowed if parliament is rebelling like that (but may not just to let us talk about it) The longer Pasty Cockwomble is left in #10, the worse his election chances, so does Corbyn hold off in the hopes of an extension anyway, gamble on a denial of this deal, and then file VONC? I think a VONC could now be very tight as the DUP might vote for it. They are really angry. However, there are still enough Labour-Independents who don't want Corbyn as PM for it to pass, I think. Any other Labour leader might still be able to stop Johnson here but not Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: So, does a VONC go through the moment an extension request is made? The delay has been (ostensibly) to force the request, and the request wil be allowed if parliament is rebelling like that (but may not just to let us talk about it) The longer Pasty Cockwomble is left in #10, the worse his election chances, so does Corbyn hold off in the hopes of an extension anyway, gamble on a denial of this deal, and then file VONC? Furious calculations in Labour HQ on this. Boris "getting Brexit done" in whatever mode will give him an electoral boost. So having a GE after a deal confirmation vote is won would seem to be handing the keys to #10 to Boris. Having an election before is therefore preferable, but Boris can also present himself as having come up with a deal and been thwarted by Parliament, or just delayed since Boris now looks more likely to win the vote (although it's still very tight). However, Boris will have broken his promise to leave by 31 October and we can see the Brexit Party is going to go hammer and tongue in the GE campaign. The last few polls seemed to put them on maybe 1 seat max, down from a few more earlier, but that was when it looked like we were going get a no-deal, which is in the Brexit Party's wheelhouse. Them and Boris going in different directions puts them back in play, at least in siphoning off maybe a couple of Tory seats. The LibDems could snap up a few more and the SNP is likely to demolish their presence in Scotland. So in a GE anything could still happen. Quote I think a VONC could now be very tight as the DUP might vote for it The chances of the DUP effectively voting Corbyn into power, or helping do so, are negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 WTF. Nigel Dodds saying the DUP will examine all amendments to the bill to consider voting in favour of amendments which are in Northern Ireland's interests, including a new referendum. Are the DUP really saying that they now could vote in favour of a referendum? Or is it showboating to get Boris to reconsider the deal? Extraordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Werthead said: WTF. Nigel Dodds saying the DUP will examine all amendments to the bill to consider voting in favour of amendments which are in Northern Ireland's interests, including a new referendum. Are the DUP really saying that they now could vote in favour of a referendum? Or is it showboating to get Boris to reconsider the deal? Extraordinary. I did say they were really angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 So this Super Saturday turned a bit limp, didn't it? So instead you will have Brexit Tuesday. 2 hours ago, Werthead said: Furious calculations in Labour HQ on this. Boris "getting Brexit done" in whatever mode will give him an electoral boost. So having a GE after a deal confirmation vote is won would seem to be handing the keys to #10 to Boris. Having an election before is therefore preferable, but Boris can also present himself as having come up with a deal and been thwarted by Parliament, or just delayed since Boris now looks more likely to win the vote (although it's still very tight). So Corbyn's 9-dimensional chess was just a very ordinary game of checkers played by a headless chicken afterall. He almost fooled me there. But seriously to get outplayed by Boris fucking Johnson. Corbyn should throw himself from the Tower Bridge. Lesson of the day, you don't get rewarded for handwringing. 8 minutes ago, Werthead said: Are the DUP really saying that they now could vote in favour of a referendum? Or is it showboating to get Boris to reconsider the deal? Extraordinary. Nope, not showboating. The NI in the EU regulatory area was a no-no for them. That is existential. I mean the very idea that they would idly by and watch their precious Union (Jacks) getting taken away from them was a bit of a stretch to begin with. That one tops their priority list, they are very predictable in that way. But that they would be the ones to pull the plug on Brexit, that is indeed a very funny little twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 That makes sense. So they might be willing to sacrifice Brexit altogether and stay in the EU as part of the UK, perhaps having realised that pulling Northern Ireland out of the EU against its will might screw them over in a GE and then screw the unionist movement over in a unification referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I saw a suggestion on Twitter that the government will get the UK Ambassador in Brussels to sign the letter, rather than Johnson doing It himself. The alternative is for Swinson to get over herself and support a Corbyn-led GNU, (or Corbyn to get over himself and support a unity candidate, but I think that less likely) and then they can have a VNC on Monday with an election to follow the extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Dunt seems to think, the EU will take theri sweet time responding to the incoming extension request, to increase the pressure on Westminster to get that deal thru. So the extension might come as late as 31st of October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Is the wording significant when Prometheus said he wouldn't negotiate an extension? Technically it's rather an application than a negotiation, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Mindwalker said: Is the wording significant when Prometheus said he wouldn't negotiate an extension? Technically it's rather an application than a negotiation, isn't it? He wants to give the impression he isn't going to obey the law, when he actually is. As they say, Classic Dom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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