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Davos4Pres

Is it likely for Bronn to return later on?

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After the farce with the Stokeworths it is likely he is aware of Cersei's paranoia. I think in the essentially inevitable event that Daenerys makes her way to Westeros he may accompany her, potentially due to Tyrion's eventual involvement, akin to what occurred in the show with him as Hand of the Queen. He is a semi-former sellsword, so he could possibly end up joining the Second Sons or even the Golden Company (who I know are working for Young Griff). Even though he was not necessarily the most loyal of characters I do think he had some fondness for Tyrion, so I think it's plausible for his return. Thoughts?

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I think Bronn mostly benefited from having a good tv actor and a lot of good lines.  Book Bronn isn't quite as exciting, and I don't expect was meant to be as long term of a character.

Right now he's a jump upped sellsword who's married into nobility, but is sharp enough to keep himself safe.  For him to go any higher he's going to need to have other skills.  Cersei doesnt' seem to hold a huge grudge against him, but if she manages some sort of power grab he might need to head for the hills.

If it turns out he's a good battle commander, I could see him making a come back leading troops for Dany and Tyrion.  But she's not really short for hanger ons at this point.

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Bronn is a sellsword.  He is most likely to sell his services to the Golden Company and die in their service.  He really has nowhere else to go except sell his services to Aegon or Doran.  Families who hate the Lannisters.  Daenerys Targaryen is too far for him to serve.  

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26 minutes ago, The Way of the Dragon said:

Bronn is a sellsword.  He is most likely to sell his services to the Golden Company and die in their service.  He really has nowhere else to go except sell his services to Aegon or Doran.  Families who hate the Lannisters.  Daenerys Targaryen is too far for him to serve.  

Aegon would have no reason to support Bronn, and every reason to strip him of his wife's title so he  can reward one of own allies.  Aegon's biggest weakness is he's going to need to make a lot of new loyal lords and enrich his supporters.  

Dany won't be in Essos forever.  Assuming GRRM ever writes another book anyway.

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I believe he'll be back, or at least he'll be mentioned in later on Tyrion's POVs. The way we last heard of him in the Cersei chapter didn't seem too final for me. I don't see him keeping the Stokeworth castle forever. I think that when Tyrion comes back to Westeros, he'll at least wonder about Bronn's whereabouts, and either contact him or merely remember him.

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Another example of show watchers getting confused as to the significance of a character.  Book!Bronn is pretty much done with.  He was there to help Tyrion a bit, but also to show the extent to which money can't buy Tyrion's way out of every problem.  He pops up in the narrative here and there again to emphasize how poor of a ruler Cersei is, and how her capricious and cruel decisions (a) almost always backfire on her, and (b) how truly powerless she is to punish those who defy her without the consent of her allies.  In other words, she's eroding her own grasp on power by driving away the Tyrells & Co, because without them she doesn't even have the ability to punish an upjumped sellsword who is usurping a noble family's seat (effectively) and spitting in her face while doing so.

Jerome Flynn was a great actor and had great rapport with Peter Dinklage, so like everything else the show was known for, they decided to destroy everything that made the show good by thinking that audiences tuned in for nudity, clever quipping, and "shocking!" surprise twists.  GRRM is, you know... not a f**King moron like Benioff and Weiss, and thus won't be shoehorning tertiary characters into every possible scene he can.

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On 10/21/2019 at 6:13 AM, Davos4Pres said:

 He is a semi-former sellsword, so he could possibly end up joining the Second Sons or even the Golden Company (who I know are working for Young Griff). Even though he was not necessarily the most loyal of characters I do think he had some fondness for Tyrion, so I think it's plausible for his return. Thoughts?

He is a lord of sorts now, he doesn't need to join a sellsword company. I got no idea what he is going to do once Aegon takes KL, but it is highly likely he joins Tyrion again once he shows up. So Tyrion's army will be composed of Second's Sons, Vale's Mountain Clan and "scum" hired by Bronn. This pattern is not causality.

I expect Bronn to survive the series (same with B. B. Plumm), I don't think he ends in the BS positions like in the show. But maybe a petty kingdom or something like that?

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Yes he has an arc. The unscrupulous sellsword will come to know friendship and loyalty and eventually gamble his own life for a friend, and lose the gamble.

Naming Lollys's child Tyrion is the firs step in that direction. It is (was) Bronn's character to only ever act in his own material best interest, but this is an act of loyalty (to Tyrion) that gained Bronn nothing but the ire of the queen.

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:03 PM, argonak said:

Right now he's a jump upped sellsword who's married into nobility, but is sharp enough to keep himself safe.  For him to go any higher he's going to need to have other skills.  Cersei doesnt' seem to hold a huge grudge against him, but if she manages some sort of power grab he might need to head for the hills.

In aFfC she held enough a grudge against Bronn naming Lollys' son Tyrion to send Falese and her husband to Stokeworth to kill him. Except she picked the wrong people to do the work, for Falese's husband challenged him to a duel and got killed. When Falese returned, Cersei stifled any possibility of her confirming Cersei wanted Bronn assassinated by having Falese disappear as an experiment.

There's been reports that Bronn has been gathering and hiring his own men. Bronn certainly is up to something. Combine it with the ward of Rosby holding Rosby and Cersei trying to get her hands on the lands for the crown, and we can predict that the ward of Rosby and Bronn are quite likely to enter into an alliance to protect their lands from being confiscated by the crown. With Kevan and Pycelle dead, the way is open for Cersei to attempt a power grab, especially since Varys tried to implicate the Tyrells. Meanwhile news of Aegon VI and GC conquering the Stormlands is spreading.

So, Stormlands south of KL, Rosby and Stokeworth north of KL in the Crownlands, and a tug-of-accusations-war between Cersei and Tyrells. George set up the Rosby ward and Bronn in Stokeworth situation as a tactical gun on the wall. He didn't write about them just for giggles and show what type of person Cersei is alone. They will be used. My bet is on them blockading trade and food from entering KL from the northern gates. The Tyrells block food coming from their region, and if not them, the Ironborn will be burning it all. Nothing will be coming from the Stormlands, let alone Dorne. 

Meanwhile most of Cersei's Lannisters are either engaged in the Riverlands OR sailing for the Arbor. Aside from BwB, RL houses ready to rebel the moment their hostages are free, Rosby and Stokeworth can even try to prevent/delay the remainder from getting back to KL. Even if they end up overpowered, them being troublesome can have big consequences. Sort of like Rochester Castle played its part in the war between King John and the rebellious barons.

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I don't think Bronn is done. Stokeworth and Rosby lost their heads of their houses in quick succession with the deaths of Lady Tanda and Gyles. The odds that Bronn had something to do with Tanda's accident are good, imo. And Gyles had been dying for a long time. 

So Cersei instead of trying to help Falyse by sending men to root out Bronn or siege the castle decided to give her to Qyburn instead, leaving the way completely open for Bronn to take over the castle and the lands. She is paranoid of him enough that she wants him dead, but doesn't think about the implications of having him become the new lord. 

And instead of dealing with the Rosby inheritance, she decided that she will instead usurp those lands. And not just that, the Stokeworths also have a claim to the Rosby lands.

Both Houses were Targaryen supporters and there's one just now who landed in the stormlands at the head of a mercenary army. 

Like as not, Bronn is a political player now if he wants to be one. He can move House Stokeworth to continue to support the Lannister regime, he go ahead and support Aegon, or he can stay out of the whole thing altogether. Him being at the head of a House because of Lollys' mental state makes him important.

There's three Houses in the crownlands that can drop House Lannister in the blink of an eye and Stokeworth is one of them.

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4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

In aFfC she held enough a grudge against Bronn naming Lollys' son Tyrion to send Falese and her husband to Stokeworth to kill him. Except she picked the wrong people to do the work, for Falese's husband challenged him to a duel and got killed. When Falese returned, Cersei stifled any possibility of her confirming Cersei wanted Bronn assassinated by having Falese disappear as an experiment.

There's been reports that Bronn has been gathering and hiring his own men. Bronn certainly is up to something. Combine it with the ward of Rosby holding Rosby and Cersei trying to get her hands on the lands for the crown, and we can predict that the ward of Rosby and Bronn are quite likely to enter into an alliance to protect their lands from being confiscated by the crown. With Kevan and Pycelle dead, the way is open for Cersei to attempt a power grab, especially since Varys tried to implicate the Tyrells. Meanwhile news of Aegon VI and GC conquering the Stormlands is spreading.

So, Stormlands south of KL, Rosby and Stokeworth north of KL in the Crownlands, and a tug-of-accusations-war between Cersei and Tyrells. George set up the Rosby ward and Bronn in Stokeworth situation as a tactical gun on the wall. He didn't write about them just for giggles and show what type of person Cersei is alone. They will be used. My bet is on them blockading trade and food from entering KL from the northern gates. The Tyrells block food coming from their region, and if not them, the Ironborn will be burning it all. Nothing will be coming from the Stormlands, let alone Dorne. 

Meanwhile most of Cersei's Lannisters are either engaged in the Riverlands OR sailing for the Arbor. Aside from BwB, RL houses ready to rebel the moment their hostages are free, Rosby and Stokeworth can even try to prevent/delay the remainder from getting back to KL. Even if they end up overpowered, them being troublesome can have big consequences. Sort of like Rochester Castle played its part in the war between King John and the rebellious barons.

Bronn has been gathering men, but the number is less than half a dozen.  He's still on the very small scale, just trying to hang on to his hard bitten gains.  He's no threat to a Great Lord, and Cersei even thinking he is just show's how small minded she remains.  IMO, Bronn was just used as a convenient character to highlight how petty Cersei is, and how even her smallest schemes back fire because she's completely incapable of gaining the loyalty of competent people.  Unlike television shows, a feudal lord has to rule with the consent of their vassals or affinity members.  Cersei has repeatedly pissed off everyone who ought to be her close supporters, and done everything to destroy the fragile alliance her father built and maintained.

If Jamie is really gone, Cersei's support network is going to evaporate.  She will be unable to maintain any of her alliances or affinities.  I would expect even the Castellan of Casterly rock to start defying her.  

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8 minutes ago, argonak said:

Bronn has been gathering men, but the number is less than half a dozen.  He's still on the very small scale, just trying to hang on to his hard bitten gains. 

That's why I mentioned Rochester Castle: held by a few, and yet they held out for 3 weeks against the siege by King John. Three weeks that allowed Louis to invade, while King John's naval forces failed. Now transpose that into Westeros in the political times of tWoW. Three weeks of no food getting past the road. Three weeks of an army entailed in besieging a low garisoned castle lorded by a sellsword of no birth, while the Golden Company invades and advances, and Cersei Lannister paid for a royla fleet that sailed away and abandoned her to play pirate at the Stepstones. ;)

Edited by sweetsunray

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