US Politics: A Mickey Mouse Operation

[Ice Queen]

50 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I can't agree on Katie Hill. She acknowledged that it was inappropriate to have an affair with a subordinate, and I think that's the key phrase. I don't think anyone is upset about the affair part, it's the subordinate part.

Should she step down? Maybe, maybe not, but I think it's objectively worse than what Franken was railroaded for. Ultimately I've always been in favor of congressional censure on ethics issues (if it doesn't explicitly break a law) and let the voters figure it out. I hated that congress was talking about censuring Roy Moore before he was even (theoretically) voted in. The voters knew about his actions and if they voted him in, they would have been saying who gives a shit? That's the piece of shit they wanted to represent their voice.

Hill wasn't even in Congress yet, so I don't think the subordinate part is relevant. And even if it is, so what? Again, men do this shit all the time and that's just fine and dandy.

[Gertrude]

8 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

Hill wasn't even in Congress yet, so I don't think the subordinate part is relevant. And even if it is, so what? Again, men do this shit all the time and that's just fine and dandy.

It was a campaign staffer and it wasn't a thing the voters could know about at the time. It's connected to her public office in a real way so I think it's fair game. In her resignation she admitted that it was inappropriate - she said it herself and she didn't have to. She could have just sited the harassment issues of her husband (ex-husband?) and not wanting to drag herself and others through this mudpit. If it's wrong, it's wrong and we shouldn't rebound with whataboutisms.

Like I said, it's her decision to step down or not, I don't think it's required in this case. I don't think it's a case of misogyny here, rather it's driven by bad actors (husband, partisan politics).

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, Gertrude said:

It was a campaign staffer and it wasn't a thing the voters could know about at the time. It's connected to her public office in a real way so I think it's fair game. In her resignation she admitted that it was inappropriate - she said it herself and she didn't have to. She could have just sited the harassment issues of her husband (ex-husband?). If it's wrong, it's wrong and we shouldn't rebound with whataboutisms.

Like I said, it's her decision to step down or not, I don't think it's required in this case. I don't think it's a case of misogyny here, rather it's driven by bad actors (husband, partisan politics).

I agree it's her decision to step down. Maybe it's the abuse talking but if she resigns then HE wins. He gets what he wants, and so do the Republicans.

Rule #1 of dealing with abusive ex husbands: never give them what they want. Break their power over you and don't under any circumstances allow them to rule your life, no matter what.

I have no doubt she is suffering--he has done the worst possible thing to her short of killing her because that's what abusive men do. But if she drops out, she is setting women in politics back decades. She's showing that we're not tough enough to go right in the gutter with the men and slog it out. We're always afraid exes are going to do something to get back at us and most of them do just that, although it usually involves the children. 

I'm sorry, I just think she should stand and fight. 

[Gertrude]

2 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

I'm sorry, I just think she should stand and fight. 

Personally, I do too. I think the only thing we disagree on is that what she did, minor as it is, doesn't matter. It matters a little, but it's far from fatal and what is being done to her because of it is so much worse. And while I said it wasn't specifically misogynistic, I do think it gained the traction it did because of the salacious details of a threesome and bisexuality, and that's gross. (the reaction to it, not that it happened)

[Bonnot OG]

The worst thing about the Hill situation is her scumbag ex releasing revenge porn and republicans throwing it around crying foul when they’ve supported & still support numerous rapists at every level of government.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

This is the part that I hate. What is being done to Hill via the photos, etc is disgusting and needs to be fought. This makes it look like leadership is only crunching the numbers and looking at optics. While I know this is how the game is played, it's disgusting and cowardly nonetheless. She should be supported whatever her decision is, not be pressured behind doors. Real talk about how this is going to play, sure, but pressure - no.

Agreed.  And even looking at this from a purely political standpoint - Hill might be the first MC targeted via revenge porn, but she almost certainly won't be the last.  In the long run, it would have been better strategically for the Dem leadership to publicly stand by her and send a clear message that such despicable efforts will not be tolerated.  Instead Pelosi's response sends the message that these loathsome tactics will work, encouraging the right to double such efforts.

[Ice Queen]

39 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Personally, I do too. I think the only thing we disagree on is that what she did, minor as it is, doesn't matter. It matters a little, but it's far from fatal and what is being done to her because of it is so much worse. And while I said it wasn't specifically misogynistic, I do think it gained the traction it did because of the salacious details of a threesome and bisexuality, and that's gross. (the reaction to it, not that it happened)

I agree. For all that Democrats are supposed to be pro-LGBTQ and love Mayor Pete, they can't stand the thought of two women having sex with each other or a threesome.

Another relic of our Puritan heritage, I suppose. Although I can't help but think if photos of Lindsay Graham having sex with teenage boys were released, he'd win re-election in a landslide.

I'm a Democrat, but I think we need to do some soul searching as a party. We need to keep in mind here that she's a victim of domestic violence (and the husband has proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt), and she's being victimized again. I expect that from Republicans, but not from Dems or liberals. The quest for fairness and equality is turning into the Inquisition.

[DMC]

18 minutes ago, Triskele said:

And if Sessions wins that seat but Trump wins re-election how undignified would Sessions look doing what Trump wants with everyone vote? 

Meh if Sessions was worried about dignity he wouldn't have accepted the AG job in the first place.  Frankly I'm a bit surprised he hasn't already announced he's running - the primary field looks terrible, gotta assume the NRSC has been begging him.

[Fragile Bird]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the bigger takeaway is that she just really wanted to get this out of her life, and I can't blame her for that. If she wanted to survive, she could have. 

Is she the first MoC to be investigated over this since the rules were changed? Seems odd that a rule change meant to largely protect younger women claimed a young woman as a victim. 

A reporter on CNN said that there are more than 700 pictures of her out there on some site, according to some Republicans who have seen them. Not a nice situation to be in.

[karaddin]

I wouldn't be shocked, given his clearly abusive nature on display now, if the entire relationship was the idea of her ex-husband and something he pushed her into. Turning around and using the thing you coerced someone into doing as a tool to punish them later is very much in line with how abusive fucks behave.

[Gaston de Foix]

13 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:

The worst thing about the Hill situation is her scumbag ex releasing revenge porn and republicans throwing it around crying foul when they’ve supported & still support numerous rapists at every level of government.

This.  There need to be journalistic standards that prevent the publication of this information. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

A reporter on CNN said that there are more than 700 pictures of her out there on some site, according to some Republicans who have seen them. Not a nice situation to be in.

I’m not sure the number matters. Once you have one, you have as many as you need if the person doesn’t want to deal with it. Perhaps this is my male privilege showing, but I’d just go with the Jaromir Jagr approach. Give zero f***s.

[Jace, Extat]

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m not sure the number matters. Once you have one, you have as many as you need if the person doesn’t want to deal with it. Perhaps this is my male privilege showing, but I’d just go with the Jaromir Jagr approach. Give zero f***s.

Apathy is underrated.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

This.  There need to be journalistic standards that prevent the publication of this information. 

So this is about ethics in journalism? 

 

 

 

(I'm sorry) 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Apathy is underrated.

I wouldn’t call it apathy, birthday girl. Just tune out people who want to shame you over your sex life. It’s shockingly effective. I wish more people would realize this.

[Gaston de Foix]

3 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

So this is about ethics in journalism? 

 

 

 

(I'm sorry) 

In large part, yes.  The Daily Mail published these photos purely for the purpose of titillation.  If this was a British citizen, they would have been bound by the ECHR right to respect for family life,  But the worst of British journalism and American free-speech absolutism has led to her resignation. 

[Jaxom 1974]

I've recently realized that 45 probably doesn't realize al Baghdadi's first name isnt actually Al.  Just sayin'. I know this isn't a major revelation for most of you...

[argonak]

5 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I've recently realized that 45 probably doesn't realize al Baghdadi's first name isnt actually Al.  Just sayin'. I know this isn't a major revelation for most of you...

I don't imagine most americans are familiar with international naming systems, we barely speak our own language.  Thats why we have journalists and politicians supposedly, to be better informed and help us out in that regard.  Doesn't seem to be workign well the past few decades though.

[Ormond]

41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I wouldn’t call it apathy, birthday girl. Just tune out people who want to shame you over your sex life. It’s shockingly effective. I wish more people would realize this.

Easier said than done for many people depending on their personality. And also because of cultural and social factors I'm sure the percentage of men who can easily "just tune this out" is way higher than the percentage for women. 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m not sure the number matters. Once you have one, you have as many as you need if the person doesn’t want to deal with it. Perhaps this is my male privilege showing, but I’d just go with the Jaromir Jagr approach. Give zero f***s.

I think the number of photos the husband posted is a big indicator of what a POS he is. It was also done to indicate how evil and wicked she was, IMO, because a decent woman might allow one or two pictures be taken but only a wanton liberal bitch would allow so many pictures to be taken, right?