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DMC

US Politics: A Mickey Mouse Operation

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I kind of thought that given the circles she runs in and the bot army she has helping her it was obvious gabbard is being groomed as a russian asset. That doesnt mean she is a spy or even an agent - it means, like Trump, she's being used to improve russian goals. Being staunchly pro Assad is a good example. So is her saying so publicly that Trump didnt collude with the Russians and the Mueller report was bullshit. So was her going against the magnitsky act. 

Jill Stein is more overt here given her multiple trips and speaking gigs in Russia, but it isn't exactly a secret or a reach. 

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The problem is the use of the loaded term "asset," as well as suggesting the Russians are "grooming" Gabbard for a 3rd party run (which is completely unfounded and fairly batshit for someone of Clinton's stature to suggest).  The language suggests intent on behalf of Gabbard and Stein when there's absolutely no evidence of such.  It is very dangerous to start casting aspersions that are tantamount to treason on individuals simply based on their foreign policy beliefs, however misguided those beliefs are.  Anyone that lived through Dubya's Iraq War should understand this. 

A better term for Gabbard and Stein (and Trump for that matter) may be "useful idiots," but even that has Red Scare connotations I'm not crazy about.

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Oh don't get me wrong, I think Clinton fucked well and truly up. (though on the grand scheme of things it's not particularly newsworthy). Gabbard is now going to go for the "fuck you Clinton" vote, which from judging here has a number of people willing to vote for whatever that is, and even better it's a woman so they can be all 'see, I'm not misogynistic' about it. Gabbard is just not that relevant, and even if she runs 3rd party it's likely not going to draw that many people away. 

Also also, the amount of vitriol over this actual line is pretty disproportionate:

Quote

“I’m not making any predictions, but I think they’ve got their eye on someone who’s currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She’s the favorite of the Russians

Gabbard is clearly the favorite of the Russians, by twitter bot metrics and RT mentions. She speculates that she would be the candidate if Jill Stein doesn't give it up. It was definitely not something she should have jumped into, mind you, but seriously - you'd think that Clinton called her a traitor and thought she should be killed or something. 

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Yeah, like I said on Friday, Clinton's comments are mostly just confusing and dumb.  All they do is grant Gabbard more attention at a time when she barely has enough money to continue running for president.  But I also think it's important to make clear that throwing this language around of Russian "assets" or "grooming" is incredibly irresponsible and should be condemned.  I didn't like it when many on the right implied or outright labeled everybody up to and including John Murtha as a traitor and coward, and I don't like it now.

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Anne Sacoolas can fuck right off!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-50134394

So the diplomat's wife who killed a kid in the UK and fled, pleading diplomatic immunity actively WANTS to be interviewed by UK police - in america, and whilst maintaining her immunity - Mrs Sacoolas "wants to be personally interviewed by officers from Northamptonshire Police in order for them to see her and the devastation this has caused her and her family".

I mean, sod the greiving parents, can't they just understand how upsetting it is to kill someone and flee from justice?

Edited by Which Tyler

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I really don't get why everyone is going after Clinton on this. If I'm around a gathering of people and someone stands up and says "Someone in this room is a murderer and is planning to kill again tonight." and then someone else (who is prominently carrying a knife and has notes on their murder plans tucked into their back pocket) reacts by saying "How dare you defame my character like this!" it's not the person who said that someone is a murderer who is the asshole.

And half of this is probably coming from people who also wonder why Obama wasn't more forceful in calling out Trump for being a Russian stooge back in 2016. But Clinton said it, so by definition it must be bad right? That fucking Killary bitch needs to shut up and learn her place, after all.

Edited by Paladin of Ice

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9 hours ago, Triskele said:

Taibbi has thoughts on Hillary (and the Russia's behind it accusations more generally).  Pretty sure he himself has been accused of being a Russian asset of some kind.  He forgot to mention Greenwald unless I missed it.  

ETA:  For the record, I think Taibbi is too dismissive of how much legit reason to worry about Russia that there is right now, but I also think that Clinton should not be talking about this like she is.  Those things can certainly both be true.

Yeah, I dunno wtf happened to Taibbi (or Greenwald for that matter).  I think it's telling that he's trying to create a parallel between people against the Iraq War being "pro-Saddam" and anyone questioning Russian involvement being "Russian assets".  He lived on Russia for awhile and I think he's just paranoid about a new Red Scare.  This seems as misguided and far-fetched as the people who think "the GOP wouldn't be in bed with Russia because that'd be socialist".  

Re: Clinton, she said the quiet part out loud, and Gabbard is whacky as hell, and her response only confirmed she's not got the stuff for the job, but I think there's just not much here.  Yeah, of course the Russians support Gabbard.  

Agree with @Paladin of Ice about where a lot of the kickback at Clinton comes from, but I think there's also some more legitimate frustration at Clinton for still being a divisive voice on the left from those who see her as 'the party establishment' and she's not even running.    Personally, I don't see why anyone should get worked about what she says.  She's said lots of stuff in this same vein in a bunch of snarky and often funny tweets over the last few years, although it's usually directed at the right.  

If Gabbard had a higher profile I think less of the left would have an issue with Hillary taking shots like this, or if it had been framed as part of a broader statement about how we need to focus on securing our elections from foreign interference.  But this is essentially a tone argument.  She's not even running and I get why it might chafe some people a bit but fuck, get over it.  

At least we got Gabbard's wild response out of it which did make me lol.  Hopefully she drops out soon and this shit can just be drowned out by the next news cycle.

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Warren joining protesting teachers in Chicago. How bad must it be there? Chicago has among the highest paid teachers in the nation. Given rising housing costs (and everything else) but mostly stagnating wages, I always thought the idea that cities need to build nice, affordable living units for their teachers is necessary. Something your lowest paid teacher (just starting) can afford (not fifty percent of their check).

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1 minute ago, Simon Steele said:

Warren joining protesting teachers in Chicago. How bad must it be there? Chicago has among the highest paid teachers in the nation. Given rising housing costs (and everything else) but mostly stagnating wages, I always thought the idea that cities need to build nice, affordable living units for their teachers is necessary. Something your lowest paid teacher (just starting) can afford (not fifty percent of their check).

From what I've read, the Chicago teachers' strike is more about improving conditions for the students. More nurses and social workers, air conditioning, getting rid of mold, etc.

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13 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I always thought of him more as a Round Mound of Political Rebound, myself.

Psh, there’s no way Mittens throws someone through a window, and he certainly wouldn’t tell a judge that his only regret was that they were on the first floor.

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28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Psh, there’s no way Mittens throws someone through a window, and he certainly wouldn’t tell a judge that his only regret was that they were on the first floor.

Please tell me whatever you're alluding to (reality? Show? Wrestling?) happened after the Nineties? (Or else Babylon 5 just stole that joke.) Sorry for OT.

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1 hour ago, Simon Steele said:

Warren joining protesting teachers in Chicago. How bad must it be there? Chicago has among the highest paid teachers in the nation. Given rising housing costs (and everything else) but mostly stagnating wages, I always thought the idea that cities need to build nice, affordable living units for their teachers is necessary. Something your lowest paid teacher (just starting) can afford (not fifty percent of their check).

So. . . basically government housing support for low income people?  (Although why are teachers, a critical social support job with a relatively high entrance investment requirement, so poorly paid anyway, is a seperate question.)

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1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

Please tell me whatever you're alluding to (reality? Show? Wrestling?) happened after the Nineties? (Or else Babylon 5 just stole that joke.) Sorry for OT.

Charles Barkley, aka The Round Mound of Rebound, once chased a man down because he threw a drink in his face and threw him through a bar window. At trial he said his only regret was that they were on the first floor. Barkley is a retired HoF basketball player who stands 6’7 and has a very large frame. The guy he threw through the window was 5’2. It’s worth noting that Barkley was once one of the most hated guys in sports, but now is a lovable figure. The only heel turn to baby face more shocking than his in main stream white America is that of Snoop Dogg, who went from most feared rapper in America to hosting shows with Martha Stewart, a fellow criminal.

Edited by Tywin et al.

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Charles Barkley, aka The Round Mound of Rebound, once chased a man down because he threw a drink in his face and threw him through a bar window. At trial he said his only regret was that they were on the first floor. Barkley is a retired HoF basketball player who stands 6’7 and has a very large frame. The guy he threw through the window was 5’2. It’s worth noting that Barkley was once one of the most hated guys in sports, but now is a lovable figure. The only heel turn to baby face more shocking than his in main stream white America is that of Snoop Dogg, who went from most feared rapper in America to host shows with Martha Stewart, a fellow criminal.

Only one of those two has ever been to prison, IIRC.

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Fascinating. If this was the 1996 incident, then... well, I think it must have been between 1993 and 1994 (first two seasons) of B5, when a similar story was told about Ivanova. So maybe he stole the more or less witty riposte from the show.

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5 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Only one of those two has ever been to prison, IIRC.

Incorrect.  According to Wikipedia:

Quote

Shortly after graduating from high school, Broadus [Snoop Dog] was arrested for possession of cocaine and for the following three years was frequently in and out of prison.[14] In 1990, he was convicted of felony possession of drugs and possession for sale.

 

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29 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Only one of those two has ever been to prison, IIRC.

I mean, there was that murder charge though…I’ve maintained that the founding fathers would have a heart attack if you teleported them to our time. That goes double for Biggy and Pac if they saw Snoop today.

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10 hours ago, DMC said:

But I also think it's important to make clear that throwing this language around of Russian "assets" or "grooming" is incredibly irresponsible and should be condemned. 

Yah -- "Collecting Enormous Revenue From Lying Political Ads That Aid and Assist the Russians With Getting the Election Results They Want" is much more accurate -- at least when it comes to Zuckerberg and FB!

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/10/21/20925872/facebook-political-ads-russia-iran-zuckerberg-press-conference

And now the Big $uck is backing, big time, Buttigiege, which explains a lot about how his rhetoric changed in the last couple of weeks.  That's some really endless supply of $$$$$$$$ plus endless platform for throwing him into consciousness of voters  as they read obsessively the posting on their exs' walls . . . .

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-21/zuckerberg-offered-advice-in-hiring-to-buttigieg-in-rare-move

I keep thinking that Netflix documentary, The Great Hack, which is about all this, has new parts coming . . . .

 

@argonak 

Quote

So. . . basically government housing support for low income people?  (Although why are teachers, a critical social support job with a relatively high entrance investment requirement, so poorly paid anyway, is a seperate question.)

Don't leave out that the teachers are now also supposed to take bullets for our kids as well, carry guns, have gun training, etc.

But we don't want to pay them, o no! It will give them ideas way above their station.  After all, I don't get summers off, and cushy days of teaching and working only 4 hours a day.

Edited by Zorral

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I watch the Chicago news on cable with my brother, and the strike has been covered a lot. The average teacher will be paid $72,000 a year if the offer is accepted. I think I heard the range is $60k to just under $100k.

Since when was $72k ‘badly paid’?

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42 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I watch the Chicago news on cable with my brother, and the strike has been covered a lot. The average teacher will be paid $72,000 a year if the offer is accepted. I think I heard the range is $60k to just under $100k.

Since when was $72k ‘badly paid’?

When you have a high cost of living, I'd guess?

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