Star Wars: The Circle is Almost Complete

[Jace, Extat]

15 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

So its fairly clear from the last 10-15 posts that i should probably stay out of this thread after i watch the film tomorrow. A shame, but i’ll find somewhere to gush over it with, even if its via PMs  

You've already decided that you love it unconditionally?

Small wonder that these corporations spend more on advertising than production now.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Just saw it and enjoyed it. I liked Rogue One and even Solo more than 7-9 but it was neverthanless a fun ride.

I think years of prequel memes have damaged my mind though I found a lot of scences funny nobody else seemed to enjoy. 

[HexMachina]

13 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

You've already decided that you love it unconditionally?

Small wonder that these corporations spend more on advertising than production now.

Nope, though many have made clear since well before release they will hate it unconditionally. But i know i will take some enjoyment at least, and will get emotional to see CF’s last scene, and i just don’t have the energy these days to deal with the toxicity and negativity that has permeated this franchise. I just want to simply discuss my enjoyment somewhere, which clearly isnt going to be this thread. And thats fine! Just, not for me

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Nope, though many have made clear since well before release they will hate it unconditionally. But i know i will take some enjoyment at least, and will get emotional to see CF’s last scene, and i just don’t have the energy these days to deal with the toxicity and negativity that has permeated this franchise. I just want to simply discuss my enjoyment somewhere, which clearly isnt going to be this thread. And thats fine! Just, not for me

That's fair, I suppose.

I'm actually getting excited for this thing now. I expect it'll suck and the reviews are what have turned over my interest engine, but as someone pointed out the reviewers fucking loved TLJ.

I think it's going to blow, and I'm a little sad that it looks like my pet theory won't be working out. But it'd also be kinda fun if it was really, really, good but the internet thinks people want to read negative articles so it gets savaged upon review. I'm definitely interested, so I guess I should be happy. Oh well, here's to Sheev!

[Jen'ari]

37 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

So its fairly clear from the last 10-15 posts that i should probably stay out of this thread after i watch the film tomorrow. A shame, but i’ll find somewhere to gush over it with, even if its via PMs  

I'm watching it tomorrow too, couldn't face a midnight showing then getting up at about 6 am when the little one tends to wake up.

[HexMachina]

1 minute ago, Jen'ari said:

I'm watching it tomorrow too, couldn't face a midnight showing then getting up at about 6 am when the little one tends to wake up.

Finishing work early and going direct from there, do not pass the flat, do not collect £200  I don’t think i could make it through a day of work going to the midnight showing though. 

I hope you enjoy it! Will someone be baby sitting Mini-Sith? I guess she is still a bit you g for the cinema

[Jen'ari]

1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Finishing work early and going direct from there, do not pass the flat, do not collect £200  I don’t think i could make it through a day of work going to the midnight showing though. 

I hope you enjoy it! Will someone be baby sitting Mini-Sith? I guess she is still a bit you g for the cinema

I'm going with a friend at lunch time, other Mrs Sith is going to be babysitting, she's not really into SW and is 7.5 months pregnant so has no desire to come along.

I'm really looking forward to seeing all the films with Mini Sith in a few years time when she's old enough to watch and enjoy them.

[Werthead]

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 It was pretty hard to watch Mark Hamill in the ensuring years.  Kind of sad joke for many.  But he continued on and did what work he could get from voice work to a parody of himself in that Kevin Smith film.

Hamill became one of the most respected voice actors in the industry and created what is for many people the most definitive version of the Joker ever created, whom he then played and developed through multitudes of different TV shows and video games.

There's a reason Hamill always rejected going on those "where are they now?" programmes and reality things, because his career was pretty damn good and he didn't give a toss if it was away from the general public eye.

Quote

 

I still cannot believe they commissioned a trilogy without laying out the plot.

 

This did happen with the originals, or at least the plot that Lucas laid out when he started writing Ep IV in 1973/74 was nothing like what we got in 1977, and his vision for Episodes V and VI in 1977 was fairly dramatically different to what we got by 1983. And the original plan for Episode VI was so different (and arguably stronger) that when Lucas decided to ditch it and change the whole thing to a merchandising exercise, original producer Gary Kurtz walked out on the company and the project.

That was more of a case of Lucas changing his mind every five seconds, but certainly the original trilogy was very much made on the fly with people changing their minds every few minutes on the big picture was. Arguably it still helped that Lucas was overseeing the whole thing, but even then you just have to listen to how grumpy he is about ESB because of how much Kasdan and Kershner changed things without his permission (because he was fighting every single day with the studio over budget overruns) to see that he considers ESB the weakest film in the first six and that he had to course-correct from it by taking a much more key role in the making of RotJ.

The truth I think is that you can make up a whole story and mythology by the seat of your pants and it works out pretty well (Deep Space Nine is probably the gold standard for this) and you can do it and you fall flat on your face (BSG being the gold standard for that, from much of the same team), and laying out a detailed mythology ahead of time can still fail to work out (see almost every second-rate epic fantasy ever) and you can do it and it works pretty well (like Babylon 5). Having a singular vision in charge of all three movies would be better, but it's hard to see how that would be accomplished: people talk about Feige but the comparison is not accurate, but Feige's trick is to give each writer-director team almost 100% complete control over their movie but he then steps in and adds a few story points that resonate through multiple movies. The big event moves in the MCU have had the same writing and directing team in place to oversee them. The only way to replicate that with the sequel trilogy would have been to go back to a movie every 3 years and having the same team involved in all three, and Disney didn't want to do that up-front.

Quote

 

Then the books with post ROTJ storylines which seemed the most we could ever hope for.  But then the prequels.  And then at last these movies.  Even though it wasn't what I was hoping for, I did enjoy TFA but that's the end for me and at this point I'm going to go back to the disregarded by Disney books where Luke is still alive and we have Jaina, Anakin and Jacen Solo as the next generation.  That will be the storyline for me.  For me, my interest has always been Luke.

 

It will be interesting to make more a determination if the EU or the new trilogy is a better continuation of the canon, and barring some kind of miracle from Ep IX the determination now I think will be that the EU was better. It had Zahn and Stover, it had KotOR (which is probably still canon in the new canon as well, but they still won't confirm it), it had the Jedi Knight trilogy, it had the X-wing books and games and it had a lot of great ideas. Even its "young Han and Lando" books were better than Solo. It did have Anderson's books, which I always assumed would tank the argument in the new canon's favour, but then Disney employed Chuck Wendig so even the "Well, the old EU did have the shittiest Star Wars tie-in fanfiction ever written," argument disintegrated. The new canon has to rely heavily on Rogue One, Rebels, the Darth Vader comics and the really good bits of The Last Jedi that worked to do its heavy lifting, which isn't really cutting it in comparison (and maybe The Mandalorian, although that also seems somewhat divisive).

[Corvinus85]

There is the LucasFilm story group, but their duties mainly deal with making sure lore stuff doesn't get messed up from one story to another, and really weren't given any authority, afaik. Maybe they should have been given some authority.

[Lord Varys]

The third trilogy was an utter mess. It is not really worth talking much about it. They salvaged some things in this movie, but only with Rey and babyface. The premise of the movie as such is basically the same as in the first of the new ones (find some place and then destroy some stuff).

The audacity of giving us this shitty opening crawl after what they pulled the last movie - starting a completely different story in medias res after it essentially ended in medias res the last time is an utter disgrace.

They still didn't know what to do with the main cast, Rey and babyface aside (the idea that the pilot fellow and Rey are suddenly the best of friends when they hardly interacted in the first two movies is, well, surprising). Even Lucas knew better than that, both with the OT and the PT (TPM and the Binks debacle aside). And many of the supporting cast members introduced in the last two episodes had essentially no roles at all. There is no proper love triangle, nor any continuation of the plot any of those people seemed to have, instead we get introduced new secondary characters.

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

It will be interesting to make more a determination if the EU or the new trilogy is a better continuation of the canon, and barring some kind of miracle from Ep IX the determination now I think will be that the EU was better. It had Zahn and Stover, it had KotOR (which is probably still canon in the new canon as well, but they still won't confirm it), it had the Jedi Knight trilogy, it had the X-wing books and games and it had a lot of great ideas. Even its "young Han and Lando" books were better than Solo. It did have Anderson's books, which I always assumed would tank the argument in the new canon's favour, but then Disney employed Chuck Wendig so even the "Well, the old EU did have the shittiest Star Wars tie-in fanfiction ever written," argument disintegrated. The new canon has to rely heavily on Rogue One, Rebels, the Darth Vader comics and the really good bits of The Last Jedi that worked to do its heavy lifting, which isn't really cutting it in comparison (and maybe The Mandalorian, although that also seems somewhat divisive).

There is little to determine there. The old EU is light years better than that. A lot of the post-Endor stuff is still nonsense, of course, but even its worse aspects are better than the new movies in the aspect that counts - make this a believable setting. The new movies have a bunch of humans sitting in jungle worlds and a bunch of ships defying 'the evil guys'. It was basically the OT story for retards, and while there was not much to be seen for galactic civilization in the OT it was quite clear that not all worlds are backwater places but are places the rebels deliberately seek out to hide there.

The PT very much broadened the setting, yet there is nothing to be seen of that in the new movies (and that includes Rogue One).

The way to go with the new movies - and especially if you had the singular chance to work with the OT cast - would have been to really focus on them and the next generation - like the EU essentially did.

The Han Solo trilogy by A. C. Crispin is definitely one of the best pieces of Star Wars literature, and gave us a much, much better story for Han than the Solo movie.

And this new thing is most definitely the worse Dark Empire (but I must say I've a soft spot for the rip off of King Ommin's body support system from 'The Freedon Nadd Uprising' in the new movie) - but it could have been the better one. Playing that card was not the greatest of ideas but as a premise it certainly could have worked had it been the premise since TFA - which it most definitely wasn't. Anything but this k

One could also have done great work if one had used the new movies to establish a new era and new characters and then continue with a TV show featuring the new generation.

But as those movies stand they are best forgotten sooner rather than later. At least insofar as this continuity is concerned. And that's what would remain if they are not going to scrap it - which they should.

[RumHam]

5 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Just saw it and enjoyed it.

And that's what matters to me right now. Honestly I enjoyed the objectively terrible prequel trilogy in theaters (ROTS was probably the last time I saw a movie more than once in theaters). I'v enjoyed the new movies so far. Afterwards you pick them apart.

Honestly I'm not even a fan of the original Star Wars. Empire is pretty good and Jedi has a lot of good stuff. When I was a kid there wasn't nearly as much good stuff out there*, so something being "mostly good" meant a lot more than it does today. 

*I'm talking about the 4-5 US broadcast channels and Beta/VHS tapes. 

[The Anti-Targ]

I haven't decided I'll hate this movie unconditionally. I'm just too jaded by every main sequence Star Wars movie since The Return of the Jedi (and I only really liked that because I was a dumb kid at the time) that I just can't be bothered risking wasting 3 hours of my time. I only have 5% confidence that I'll actually like it. Best case scenario is I think it's meh and glad that this trilogy is over.

Everyone else in my family is excited for it and I wish them good luck with seeing it.

[Lord Varys]

16 minutes ago, RumHam said:

And that's what matters to me right now. Honestly I enjoyed the objectively terrible prequel trilogy in theaters (ROTS was probably the last time I saw a movie more than once in theaters). I'v enjoyed the new movies so far. Afterwards you pick them apart.

The last one with its weird 'changes in the formula' would have been a great ending, but it was a terrible middle movie. However, I've to admit that the first times the twists really were effective.

The PT movies are terribly executed, but behind all the strange stuff there is a compelling and interesting story. The new ones don't even have that. The story is a rehash of the OT and the plot is even more shallow than the old ones insofar as premises and content are concerned.

Lucas did something new with the PT movies. He tried. The Disney goons did not.

16 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Honestly I'm not even a fan of the original Star Wars. Empire is pretty good and Jedi has a lot of good stuff. When I was a kid there wasn't nearly as much good stuff out there*, so something being "mostly good" meant a lot more than it does today. 

*I'm talking about the 4-5 US broadcast channels and Beta/VHS tapes. 

Star Wars isn't the kind of thing you get into as an adult, anyway, so that's perfectly fine.

[Kalbear]

Maybe it's my feed, but holy crap are the reviews harsh. 

[Nictarion]

The review I’ve been waiting for the most is out, and it’s not a particularly good one (although not terrible either). Sounds like a mixed bag. It’s spoiler free btw. 

 

[Luzifer's right hand]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

And that's what matters to me right now. Honestly I enjoyed the objectively terrible prequel trilogy in theaters (ROTS was probably the last time I saw a movie more than once in theaters). I'v enjoyed the new movies so far. Afterwards you pick them apart.

Honestly I'm not even a fan of the original Star Wars. Empire is pretty good and Jedi has a lot of good stuff. When I was a kid there wasn't nearly as much good stuff out there*, so something being "mostly good" meant a lot more than it does today. 

*I'm talking about the 4-5 US broadcast channels and Beta/VHS tapes. 

A SFX heavy movie does not need to be especially good for me to enjoy it in an IMAX or 4DX cinema though. It is probably the worst plotted movie I have seen in cinema this year and I have seen Terminator: Dark Fate and a lot of scences in the movie made no sense except that they looked awesome.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

A SFX heavy movie does not need to be especially good for me to enjoy it in an IMAX or 4DX cinema though. It is probably the worst plotted movie I have seen in cinema this year and I have seen Terminator: Dark Fate and a lot of scences in the movie made no sense except that they looked awesome.

Did Dark Fate already come out?Jesus.

I remember going to see Terminator 3 with my dad. He was so... disappointed.

[The Mother of The Others]

What about Terminators vs. Transformers?    Pitting terminators against only humans is what made them one-dimensional characters, always with the killing.    I'd like more crossovers like Freddy vs. Jason- - - - What if Mothra got in Sideous' face and they threw down?    Porgs vs. Minions.    Hermoine vs. Nicholas Cage.   

And that was a perty good summary (#316) of the StarWars journey, Mr. Lord.  (Prequels were real installments of the story, even if somewhat pained; Disney rearranged the furniture )

[Darryk]

Havent seen the new one yet but I imagine it's a lazy rehash of ROTJ with bland characters, just as TFA was a lazy rehash of ANH with bland characters, and even though everyone seems to have this weird idea in their head that TLJ was a "fresh take" on Star Wars, in actuality it was just a lazy rehash of ESB with bland characters and some ridiculous fanservice in the form of Yoda appearing and laughing like a gremlin for no reason.

The original trilogy holds up pretty well, except for the ewoks in ROTJ. The plotting was tight, the characters were iconic, and the world was imaginative. ESB was actually impeccably crafted by Irvin Kirschner, with great pacing and atmosphere and strong character interaction.

People keep saying "well you just liked it cause you were a kid, and the kids of today will like the new ones the same" I don't buy it. There's not a single character from the new movies who will stand out in people's memories like Vader, Han Solo, Obi-wan etc; who's gonna give a crap about frigging Po Dameron in twenty years. And Finn? They had a chance to do something interesting by making him a former storm trooper, but they might as well have must made him a smuggler cause his storm trooper backstory doesn't seem to have any significance on his character arc.

As for Rey, there's no heroes journey, no struggle; you don't get to see her grow and develop the way you did with Luke on his journey from whining farm boy to brash star pilot to sanguine Jedi Knight. I've got no issue with progressive filmmaking, in fact I was quite happy when I heard they were casting a woman in the lead (George Lucas briefly played with the idea of  making the Luke character female in ANH anyway), but at least tell a compelling story.

The one thing this Disney rehash trilogy has achieved is given me a newfound appreciation for the prequels. I mean, don't get me wrong, they were awful films. But at least they expanded on the world, tried to tell a different story, and managed to introduce SOME memorable characters, like Darth Maul and Qui Gon.

 

[Darryk]

11 hours ago, lady narcissa said:

I did want to add one thing that I do like about the new trilogy - it has brought Mark Hamill back to the public eye.

I admit I totally crushed on Mark Hamill when I was 7 years old.  I had stickers of him all over my school folders.  Even when I got older and all my school friends switched their allegiance to Harrison Ford, I stayed true.  It's always hard to watch actors/actresses who come into their popularity due to one iconic role continue their success in Hollywood.  It's a tough hurdle to overcome and a lot don't make it.  And let's face it, not all turn out to be people you really want to continue to root for.  And a lot are really not great actors but for that one role.  It was pretty hard to watch Mark Hamill in the ensuring years.  Kind of sad joke for many.  But he continued on and did what work he could get from voice work to a parody of himself in that Kevin Smith film.

But after TFA and his non speaking role but oh so soulful look on the cliff, all my friends looked at me and were like, oh helloooooo, damn he looks good!!!!! And I was all uhhhh where have you all been these past 30 years?  And suddenly Mark Hamill was cool again.  A cultural icon.  He won't ever be a great actor or get really challenging interesting roles but he is no longer someone to make fun of or feel sorry for.  And its has been great to see he is still married to his wife and has good relationship with his kids and he does lots of wonderful charity work with sick children.  And despite what must be his obvious disappointment over his limited role in this new trilogy, but for a few minimal cryptic comments, he has remained pretty classy about this whole thing, just seemingly grateful for the fans and the work he does get to do.  7 year old me made a good choice.

I'm also glad they put Mark Hamill back in the limelight and got him to live a healthier lifestyle, but they wasted him. The one interesting thing about TFA was that Luke had disappeared and no one knew what he'd been up to for all these years. I thought that was an interesting hook. Maybe he's seeking out lost Jedi secrets? Maybe he feels the Jedi lost their purpose, and is travelling to ancient Jedi temples to try find out how the order began? Maybe he senses a greater darkness behind the emperor and is trying to prepare for what's coming?

Nope, he's hanging out on an island drinking cow tit milk. Rian Johnson's grand idea was to turn Luke into grumpy Yoda, except without the mystical "I'm just putting on an act to test you" aspect. Well done, Rian, you ""subverted my expectations", in that I thought you were gonna do something interesting but you did something boring and lazy.