Why did Aegon the Conqueror didn't have more children?

[dsjj251]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:31 PM, Lord Varys said:

There is no reason to assume anything of that. It is not impossible, of course, but it would be very strange considering that we do know all of Aerion's children were dragonlords by the time of their wedding, meaning Aerion would have allowed other houses/people to acquire Vhagar and Meraxes had he actually intended to marry his daughters outside the family.

Also, we have no idea when Lord Aerion died, whether he even lived to see his children grow up. Aegon was already Lord of Dragonstone when he fought against the Volantenes and it seems his and Visenya's visits to the Arbor and Oldtown and possibly even Lannisport happened at a time when he was a lord as well (there is no talk about them being fostered elsewhere by their father).

Let me rephrase.

 

Marring both sisters is uncommon, so it is likely Aerion would have married Rhaenys to someone else. Add in the age gaps and all 3 being dragon riders before getting married, as well as marriage proposals from Kings who follow the faith of the seven.

 

Its looks clear that the marriages between the 3 happened relatively recent to the conquest itself. 

[Jaak]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:31 PM, Lord Varys said:

There is no reason to assume anything of that. It is not impossible, of course, but it would be very strange considering that we do know all of Aerion's children were dragonlords by the time of their wedding, meaning Aerion would have allowed other houses/people to acquire Vhagar and Meraxes had he actually intended to marry his daughters outside the family.

We are told that unlike incest, polygamy had not been a Targaryen custom. Aegon married Visenya for duty and Rhaenys for love.

Meaning that people in on Targaryen customs - like Aerion - expected Aegon to marry just Visenya - and Rhaenys to marry someone else.

Who?

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Let me rephrase.

Marring both sisters is uncommon, so it is likely Aerion would have married Rhaenys to someone else. Add in the age gaps and all 3 being dragon riders before getting married, as well as marriage proposals from Kings who follow the faith of the seven.

Its looks clear that the marriages between the 3 happened relatively recent to the conquest itself. 

Sure, Rhaenys may have married another person, but, again, we have no idea whether Aerion Targaryen even lived long enough to arrange a match for his youngest daughter.

However, the idea that it was considered to marry Rhaenys to some savage Westerosi king rather than, say, to Aethan Velaryon or even Orys Baratheon (assuming the boy was Aerion's son) seems very far-fetched to me. The Targaryen came with five dragons to Dragonstone, yet no dragonriding Targaryen woman between the Doom and the Conquest ever married into a Westerosi royal family as far as we know.

[It is pretty unconceivable that that happened, considering it would have allowed the Westerosi to actually learn how to deal with dragons before the Conquest.]

1 hour ago, Jaak said:

We are told that unlike incest, polygamy had not been a Targaryen custom. Aegon married Visenya for duty and Rhaenys for love.

Meaning that people in on Targaryen customs - like Aerion - expected Aegon to marry just Visenya - and Rhaenys to marry someone else.

Who?

See above. I really don't feel confident assuming Aerion lived very long after the birth of his children. But even if he did - we have no idea whether he had any ideas who his children should marry.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Clearly the reader is expected to wonder whether either prince is the son of the Conqueror, but why? I suspect it's to show just how important riding a dragon is. When young Aenys's health improved after bonding with, and then riding, Quicksilver, the rumors lost credence. This will matter when our Aegon, the noblest lad that ever lived, has an opportunity to mount a dragon, and probably for Jon Snow too. 

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Clearly the reader is expected to wonder whether either prince is the son of the Conqueror, but why? I suspect it's to show just how important riding a dragon is. When young Aenys's health improved after bonding with, and then riding, Quicksilver, the rumors lost credence. This will matter when our Aegon, the noblest lad that ever lived, has an opportunity to mount a dragon, and probably for Jon Snow too. 

I don't know. I think it is more a variation of the parentage theme we get with Cersei's children.

You would have a point there if Rhaenyra's elder sons mounting their dragons would have somehow completely shut down those bastard rumors (which they did not) or if Hugh and Ulf - who ended up riding the most 'royal dragons' there were, Vermithor and Silverwing, the mounts of the Old King and the Good Queen - had profited in a meaningful manner from this fact.

If dragons were truly important, Ulf wouldn't have been poisoned and Hugh wouldn't have been slain.

[HexMachina]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:00 AM, Lord Varys said:

I don't know. I think it is more a variation of the parentage theme we get with Cersei's children.

You would have a point there if Rhaenyra's elder sons mounting their dragons would have somehow completely shut down those bastard rumors (which they did not) or if Hugh and Ulf - who ended up riding the most 'royal dragons' there were, Vermithor and Silverwing, the mounts of the Old King and the Good Queen - had profited in a meaningful manner from this fact.

If dragons were truly important, Ulf wouldn't have been poisoned and Hugh wouldn't have been slain.

Not to mention that bastard or no, they were undoubtedly of Targaryen blood through their mothers anyway

[dsjj251]

On 11/14/2019 at 4:05 PM, Lord Varys said:

Sure, Rhaenys may have married another person, but, again, we have no idea whether Aerion Targaryen even lived long enough to arrange a match for his youngest daughter.

However, the idea that it was considered to marry Rhaenys to some savage Westerosi king rather than, say, to Aethan Velaryon or even Orys Baratheon (assuming the boy was Aerion's son) seems very far-fetched to me. The Targaryen came with five dragons to Dragonstone, yet no dragonriding Targaryen woman between the Doom and the Conquest ever married into a Westerosi royal family as far as we know.

[It is pretty unconceivable that that happened, considering it would have allowed the Westerosi to actually learn how to deal with dragons before the Conquest.]

I dont really see the argument that Targaryens actually cared about blood nobility to that extent.  Aegon married one of his sons to a  Hightower, Jaehaerys was fine with the possibility of marrying his daughters to Arryns, Blackwoods, Lannisters, Manderlys and more . While none of these matches would have resulted in a dragon being controlled by a different house,  it seems to me it was understood that the dragons belonged to House Targaryen regardless. It also seems as though "bonding" is real and only those of Targaryen blood could do that, so its not like a dragon could pass from say the child of an Arryn-Targaryen match  to an Arryn-Royce cousin if the first died with no issue. 

As for Aerion, we have no idea when he died, but we know Aegon wasnt lord when he first mounted his dragons, nor was he when he and Visenya traveled Westeros. 

Since we know the painted table wasnt commissioned til after that, I would say they didnt get married until 4 years before conquest or later. 

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

I dont really see the argument that Targaryens actually cared about blood nobility to that extent.  Aegon married one of his sons to a  Hightower, Jaehaerys was fine with the possibility of marrying his daughters to Arryns, Blackwoods, Lannisters, Manderlys and more . While none of these matches would have resulted in a dragon being controlled by a different house,  it seems to me it was understood that the dragons belonged to House Targaryen regardless. It also seems as though "bonding" is real and only those of Targaryen blood could do that, so its not like a dragon could pass from say the child of an Arryn-Targaryen match  to an Arryn-Royce cousin if the first died with no issue. 

Rhaenys Targaryen was a dragonlord before her marriage. If she had been married to some great Westerosi king or lord she would have lived with him in said guy's kingdom, taking her huge dragon Meraxes with her.

This has nothing to do with blood purity but with keeping one of the family dragons in the family and, more importantly, in the Dragonstone kingdom of the Targaryens,

I don't doubt that the Targaryens of Dragonstone married spare daughters without dragons to Westerosi nobility in the region, but definitely not dragonlords with dragons.

Jaehaerys I later had a very rigid dragon policies. He only allowed three of his children to become dragonriders - two sons, one daughter. The daughters he intended to marry outside the family were not permitted any dragons.

It is clear that the king could control access to dragon hatchlings and eggs produced on Dragonstone or in the Dragonpit, but if, say, Daemon's marriage with Rhea Royce had been a success, then Daemon's sons or grandsons by her certainly could have claimed Caraxes after Daemon's death - even if Caraxes had never produced any eggs of his own.

10 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

As for Aerion, we have no idea when he died, but we know Aegon wasnt lord when he first mounted his dragons, nor was he when he and Visenya traveled Westeros. 

Since we know the painted table wasnt commissioned til after that, I would say they didnt get married until 4 years before conquest or later. 

There is no indication for any of that. Nowhere is stated when Aegon became lord. He could have already been Lord of Dragonstone when he visited the Arbor and Oldtown, just as he could already have been Lord of Dragonstone when he fought against the Volantenes.

[Bael's Bastard]

Rhaenys was already a dragon rider when she informed Jaehaerys of her intention to wed Corlys, so Jaehaerys apparently wasn't as rigid about preventing dragonriders from marrying out as you seem to think.

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Bael's Bastard said:

Rhaenys was already a dragon rider when she informed Jaehaerys of her intention to wed Corlys, so Jaehaerys apparently wasn't as rigid about preventing dragonriders from marrying out as you seem to think.

With the Velaryons there was clearly an exception, possibly due to their close kinship. Jaehaerys I also didn't refuse to grant young Laenor a dragon hatching, never mind the fact that he was the main rival of his own son, Prince Baelon.

Not to mention that later nobody stopped Laena from claiming Baelon's Vhagar - although that may have only happened during the reign of Viserys I (although it would be even stranger if he permitted her from getting this dragon, considering what amount of power that granted House Velaryon, his main rivals). Throughout most of Viserys I the Velaryons had the raw dragon power to reduce KL to ashes with the king lacking the means to stop them, considering he had no dragon of his own and the Velaryons three of them.

More importantly, Princess Rhaenys was second in line to the Iron Throne at the time of her marriage. Should Aemon I rule and never father any sons, Rhaenys Targaryen (or her son, should she have predeceased her father) would have succeeded her father on the throne, one imagines. She was of the eldest branch of the royal house, the branch who was expected to continue the dragonrider thing.

The younger daughters were, insofar as they were not married to princes of House Targaryens, just pawns on the marriage market. Jaehaerys I makes it pretty clear that the only thing he ever expected from his daughters was to marry and produce children of their own. They clearly did not need dragons for that. Else both Saera and Viserra had long had dragons when they died/were disgraced. Daella, we know, was afraid of dragons, so there it is clear why she didn't have a dragon when she was married. With the other daughters it was clearly a desire not to share (that even extends to Maegelle - I'm not sure why a septa should not also have a dragon), obviously caused by the whole Aerea fiasco.

This even extends to Vaegon. FaB confirms the youth was only sent to the Citadel rather late - at the age of fifteen. He was more than old enough to have at least been given a hatchling if you consider at what ages Aenys, Maegor, Jaehaerys I, and Alysanne were given/offered dragons. But it is clear the king was in no rush to give his own son a dragon even at a time when he still intended for him to marry and continue the line of House Targaryen (and as is true for a Maegelle there is no internal reason why a maester or archmaester should not be able to have a dragon).

In fact, the way how Aemon and Baelon and Alyssa became dragonriders shows that Jaehaerys I was having nothing of the hatchling-giving or eggs-laying-nonsense. He restricted access to dragons very harshly, and one assumes the three children of his who were allowed to mount dragons had to petition him first, and he decided when (or if) they were ready or capable of doing this.

He let's it slip (although only after her downfall) that he wouldn't have allowed Saera to become a dragonrider.

[Bael's Bastard]

Simply put, the Velaryons were the most likely and well equipped to actually rival the Targaryens, yet Jaehaerys gave his blessing to Rhaenys and Corlys, and even after Rhaenys the dragonrider wed Corlys, Jaehaerys did not refrain from doing things which they could and did take offense to, like passing ovet Rhaenys and her children for Baelon and his. He clearly lacked an early and consistent policy such as you have invented in your head.

[Lord Varys]

27 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Simply put, the Velaryons were the most likely and well equipped to actually rival the Targaryens, yet Jaehaerys gave his blessing to Rhaenys and Corlys, and even after Rhaenys the dragonrider wed Corlys, Jaehaerys did not refrain from doing things which they could and did take offense to, like passing ovet Rhaenys and her children for Baelon and his. He clearly lacked an early and consistent policy such as you have invented in your head.

No, it is quite clear that Jaehaerys I had an altogether different approach to dragons than Viserys I. Jaehaerys I jealously guarded them, even from his own family, after the Aerea incident, whereas Viserys I threw dragons and dragon eggs at every child his family produced. This was not done by Jaehaerys I. No child of his but Aemon (allegedly) got a dragon egg in his cradle (and it doesn't seem that a dragon hatched from that egg) whereas the later Targaryen children all got such eggs.

It is quite clear King Jaehaerys I guarded his dragons even from his own children, and did not permit all of them (confirmed for Saera) to become a dragonrider. And why shouldn't Jaehaerys I give his granddaughter his blessing in 90 AC? Aemon Targaryen, Rhaenys's father was still alive and well, part of the branch of House Targaryen that should, in his mind, continue the royal bloodline. Not to mention that she arranged her marriage after becoming a dragonrider, whereas Jaehaerys I did neither permit his daughters to arrange their own marriages. And he only did permit Alyssa a dragon after she had married Baelon, meaning the fact that she was remaining in the family certainly could have been the reason why she was allowed a dragon and Maegelle and Vaegon and Daella and Saera and Viserra were not.

Even after Rhaenys and her unborn child were passed over, this didn't mean, one assumes, that the Velaryons were pariahs. Laena and Laenor were not that much older than Rhaenyra or a son Viserys and Aemma could have produced in the 90s, meaning that the way to close the rift between the two branches could have been to make Laena the bride of Baelon's first grandson (and the future king after Baelon I and Viserys I).

And we see how such overtures were made with Viserys-Laena and eventually finalized with Laenor-Rhaenyra.

However, it is also quite clear that there wouldn't have been a Dance of the Dragons with actual dragons if Viserys I had kept his dragons in the Dragonpit, only allowing his chosen heir and her children dragons of their own, and keeping all the 'lesser Targaryens' away from them.

How it came that Laenor was given a hatchling and how Laena acquired Vhagar are interesting question - but the former at least could have been done without the consent of Jaehaerys I if Meleys had produced viable eggs on Driftmark. How Laena got her hands on Vhagar is a different question, but the dragon would have been kept in the Dragonpit after Baelon's death (considering that the prince died in KL), so my guess would be that Laena was given permission to mount a dragon in the Dragonpit early on during the reign of Viserys I and she claimed Vhagar.

[dsjj251]

7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Rhaenys Targaryen was a dragonlord before her marriage. If she had been married to some great Westerosi king or lord she would have lived with him in said guy's kingdom, taking her huge dragon Meraxes with her.

This has nothing to do with blood purity but with keeping one of the family dragons in the family and, more importantly, in the Dragonstone kingdom of the Targaryens,

I don't doubt that the Targaryens of Dragonstone married spare daughters without dragons to Westerosi nobility in the region, but definitely not dragonlords with dragons.

There is no evidence of this, nor the argument that the Targaryens would care in the first place, as long as the person riding the dragon had Targaryen blood, they seemed to be fine with it. 

 

Quote

Jaehaerys I later had a very rigid dragon policies. He only allowed three of his children to become dragonriders - two sons, one daughter. The daughters he intended to marry outside the family were not permitted any dragons.

It is clear that the king could control access to dragon hatchlings and eggs produced on Dragonstone or in the Dragonpit, but if, say, Daemon's marriage with Rhea Royce had been a success, then Daemon's sons or grandsons by her certainly could have claimed Caraxes after Daemon's death - even if Caraxes had never produced any eggs of his own.

 

You are going to have to quote where this is mentioned 

 

Quote

There is no indication for any of that. Nowhere is stated when Aegon became lord. He could have already been Lord of Dragonstone when he visited the Arbor and Oldtown, just as he could already have been Lord of Dragonstone when he fought against the Volantenes.

We can assume dragon riding age and marriage after puberty, so the earliest would be Rhaenys at 13 marrying a 15 year old Aegon . Again, the marriage proposals also make it seems that Aegons marriages are relatively newer than this. For example, Sharra Arryn has 2 young sons, her husband cant be long dead. And for Ronnel to be small enough to sit on Visenya's lap, i would say he isnt  much older than 5 or 6, his brother being a year or 2 younger. 

Which is how I get the 4 years number being the earliest they could have gotten married.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

There is no evidence of this, nor the argument that the Targaryens would care in the first place, as long as the person riding the dragon had Targaryen blood, they seemed to be fine with it. 

There is evidence for this - the fact that no one mentioned anything about a female Targaryen dragonlord with a dragon living with her Westerosi lordly or kingly husband in his land. We also have the clumsy attempts of the Westerosi kings and lords to fight against the Targaryen dragonriders during the Conquest - which they certainly would have been better at if some of their peers had had dragonlord wives with dragons in the past.

They would have then seen dragons used in war before, and would have already tested various strategies against them. They might have even killed dragons before, considering no Targaryen brought to Westeros by some Targaryen wife before the Conquest is still alive by the time of the Conquest.

3 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

You are going to have to quote where this is mentioned 

You can read it in FaB. Jaehaerys I jealously guarded his own dragons. He did not give any of his children dragon eggs or hatchlings (aside from Aemon whose egg apparently did not hatch), and he did not suffer his children to hang out with dragons all the time. They were kept in the Dragonpit, only Silverwing and Vermithor were allowed in the Red Keep.

The only daughter he permitted a dragon was Alyssa - after she had been married to her own brother Baelon, which ensured her dragon would remain in the family.

Maegelle, Vaegon, Daella, Saera, Viserra, and Gael were not given any dragons, and it explicitly said that the king wouldn't have allowed Saera a dragon.

But I lay out that all above.

This goes back to Aerea stealing a dragon. You can also draw it from both Rhaena's and Jaehaerys I's concern that other houses (the Lannisters in Rhaena's case) and the Volantene triarchs in Jaehaerys I's case) may acquire Targaryen dragons and thus become dragonlords themselves. This is not something they want to see happening.

We don't know how strict Lord Aerion and the Dragonstonian Targaryens were about this, of course, but considering what kind of danger a Meraxes could pose for Dragonstone if she were to fall in the hands of an ambitious house after Rhaenys's death makes it very unlikely Lord Aerion ever entertained the notion to marry his dragonriding daughter to any powerful outsider - not in Westeros and especially not in the Free Cities (where the nobles wouldn't even need Targaryen blood to claim a dragon of their own, considering their strong Valyrian blood).

3 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

We can assume dragon riding age and marriage after puberty, so the earliest would be Rhaenys at 13 marrying a 15 year old Aegon . Again, the marriage proposals also make it seems that Aegons marriages are relatively newer than this. For example, Sharra Arryn has 2 young sons, her husband cant be long dead. And for Ronnel to be small enough to sit on Visenya's lap, i would say he isnt  much older than 5 or 6, his brother being a year or 2 younger. 

Which is how I get the 4 years number being the earliest they could have gotten married.

You confuse things. For one, there is standard age when you become a dragonrider. Many Targaryens claimed their dragons at a very early age.

Aegon I is born 27 BC, meaning he was 25 when the Conquest started. That could mean he was married to both his sisters (Visenya is two years older than Aegon, Rhaenys 1-2 years younger) for about ten years by that time. It could even be some years more if the marriages were not immediately consummated - it could also be fewer years, we don't know. But we cannot rule out that they were married for a pretty long time.

Sharra Arryn offers her own hand to Aegon only during the Conquest. Her age and children have nothing to do with Aegon or his sisters nor their marriages. She considered herself a potential third wife to Aegon.

The fact that Lord Aerion is essentially never mentioned when we hear something about Targaryen stuff before the Conquest (Aegon fighting Volantis, Aegon & Visenya visiting Westeros, Aegon planning to conquer Westeros) we can be reasonably sure he is dead for quite some time by 2 BC when the Conquest begins. I'd feel confident guessing the old man has to be dead for at least five years by that time, perhaps somewhat longer.

One has also to consider that Lord Aerion himself may have had dragon of his own, and since the Targaryens apparently had only three of them by the time of the Conquest it may have been one of the dragons of his children - which would mean Aerion would then have died before the marriage of his children.

If he had for some reason ridden Rhaenys's Meraxes before his death - and she claimed his dragon only after her father's death - then he could have had some outside marriage plans for her. But that would mean he must have been around until she was old enough to marry - which we also don't know. But if his dragon was Balerion, then Aegon could have claimed him only after his father's death - and that means his father would have to have been dead by the time of the Volantis affair.

In fact, we do know that Aegon seems to have arranged his own marriages, since Gyldayn claims Aegon decided to marry both his sisters. He also implies that Aegon made the choice to marry Visenya - there is no indication that either marriage was arranged by a parent of the siblings.

With all that we basically have no idea what went before the Conquest aside from a pretty good guess that Aerion wasn't around until shortly before the Conquest and the chance that the siblings were married for quite some time before the Conquest (although the evidence for the former is stronger than for the latter).

[dsjj251]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There is evidence for this - the fact that no one mentioned anything about a female Targaryen dragonlord with a dragon living with her Westerosi lordly or kingly husband in his land. We also have the clumsy attempts of the Westerosi kings and lords to fight against the Targaryen dragonriders during the Conquest - which they certainly would have been better at if some of their peers had had dragonlord wives with dragons in the past.

They would have then seen dragons used in war before, and would have already tested various strategies against them. They might have even killed dragons before, considering no Targaryen brought to Westeros by some Targaryen wife before the Conquest is still alive by the time of the Conquest.

You can read it in FaB. Jaehaerys I jealously guarded his own dragons. He did not give any of his children dragon eggs or hatchlings (aside from Aemon whose egg apparently did not hatch), and he did not suffer his children to hang out with dragons all the time. They were kept in the Dragonpit, only Silverwing and Vermithor were allowed in the Red Keep.

The only daughter he permitted a dragon was Alyssa - after she had been married to her own brother Baelon, which ensured her dragon would remain in the family.

Maegelle, Vaegon, Daella, Saera, Viserra, and Gael were not given any dragons, and it explicitly said that the king wouldn't have allowed Saera a dragon.

But I lay out that all above.

This goes back to Aerea stealing a dragon. You can also draw it from both Rhaena's and Jaehaerys I's concern that other houses (the Lannisters in Rhaena's case) and the Volantene triarchs in Jaehaerys I's case) may acquire Targaryen dragons and thus become dragonlords themselves. This is not something they want to see happening.

We don't know how strict Lord Aerion and the Dragonstonian Targaryens were about this, of course, but considering what kind of danger a Meraxes could pose for Dragonstone if she were to fall in the hands of an ambitious house after Rhaenys's death makes it very unlikely Lord Aerion ever entertained the notion to marry his dragonriding daughter to any powerful outsider - not in Westeros and especially not in the Free Cities (where the nobles wouldn't even need Targaryen blood to claim a dragon of their own, considering their strong Valyrian blood).

You confuse things. For one, there is standard age when you become a dragonrider. Many Targaryens claimed their dragons at a very early age.

Aegon I is born 27 BC, meaning he was 25 when the Conquest started. That could mean he was married to both his sisters (Visenya is two years older than Aegon, Rhaenys 1-2 years younger) for about ten years by that time. It could even be some years more if the marriages were not immediately consummated - it could also be fewer years, we don't know. But we cannot rule out that they were married for a pretty long time.

Sharra Arryn offers her own hand to Aegon only during the Conquest. Her age and children have nothing to do with Aegon or his sisters nor their marriages. She considered herself a potential third wife to Aegon.

The fact that Lord Aerion is essentially never mentioned when we hear something about Targaryen stuff before the Conquest (Aegon fighting Volantis, Aegon & Visenya visiting Westeros, Aegon planning to conquer Westeros) we can be reasonably sure he is dead for quite some time by 2 BC when the Conquest begins. I'd feel confident guessing the old man has to be dead for at least five years by that time, perhaps somewhat longer.

One has also to consider that Lord Aerion himself may have had dragon of his own, and since the Targaryens apparently had only three of them by the time of the Conquest it may have been one of the dragons of his children - which would mean Aerion would then have died before the marriage of his children.

If he had for some reason ridden Rhaenys's Meraxes before his death - and she claimed his dragon only after her father's death - then he could have had some outside marriage plans for her. But that would mean he must have been around until she was old enough to marry - which we also don't know. But if his dragon was Balerion, then Aegon could have claimed him only after his father's death - and that means his father would have to have been dead by the time of the Volantis affair.

In fact, we do know that Aegon seems to have arranged his own marriages, since Gyldayn claims Aegon decided to marry both his sisters. He also implies that Aegon made the choice to marry Visenya - there is no indication that either marriage was arranged by a parent of the siblings.

With all that we basically have no idea what went before the Conquest aside from a pretty good guess that Aerion wasn't around until shortly before the Conquest and the chance that the siblings were married for quite some time before the Conquest (although the evidence for the former is stronger than for the latter).

Instead of trying to individually quote this, im going to hit some high point. 

 

1. The Targaryens arrived on Dragonstone in 114 BC, Aegons conquest started 112 years later. We literally know nothing about Westeros in that time period other than 3 major events.  War between the Iron Islands and the Stormlands for control of the Riverlands, and even that is assumed and could have technically happened before 114 BC, Westerosi participating in the multiple wars between the Daughters of Valyria, And the War/battle between the Reach and Stormlands.  Other than that, we know nothing.

We are told that there are multiple wars between these factions, so it is possible Aerion/Aegon participate in one and no one from Westeros saw the Dragons, but it is also possible they did.

The point overall is that there is no mention what so ever to marriages in the sense you argued. 

2. Jaehaerys Children - 

There were only 2 adult dragons that were riderless when Jaehaerys had living children old enough to ride. One was Dreamfyre, after Rheana died, the other was Balerion. All the other dragons mentioned in the story were either not born yet, wild, or we dont know their birth to confirm them. 

to add to this, Daella was terrified of dragons, Vaegon and Maegelle both swore them off in favor of religion and academics,

Only Saera carried for them, and Fire and Blood never says Aegon forbade her from having one, it says she tried to steal one after he imprisoned her for sleeping with 3 young knights. 

Gael  was young. By the time they would have been 12. Balerion  was claimed by Viserys I (93 AC), Leaving Dreamfyre as the only known ridable dragon.   Viserra could have claimed either, but we have no actual indication as to if she tried and failed, or was forbidden to do so. 

3.

Known dragon riding ages. 

Rheana - 12

Maegor - 25-27 (born in 12 AC, claimed Balerion after death of his father in 37 AC, rode him by 39 AC)
 

Aemon - 17/18(born in 55, mounted Caraxes after Tourny in Duskendale, 72 AC or shortly after)

Baelon 16-17 (born 57, Mounted Vhagar after Tourny at Old Oak, 73 AC or shortly after)

Alyssa 15+ (born 60, claimed Meleys after marriage to Baelon in 75 AC 

Rhaenys 13+ (Claimed Meleys after the death of her mother)

Leanor 7+( claimed, but did not ride Seasmoke til later on)

Laena  12(born 93,rode Vhagar in 105 AC)

I could keep going, but I think it is reasonable to say 12/13 is a good age to start from when it comes to dragon riding, and the books say They(Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys) were all dragon riders before marriage

4A. Because of the dragon riding age, I made the same 10 year argument as yourself.  None of the books say Sharra offers herself as 3rd wife, nor does King Durrandon his daughter. It is possible, but unlikely for those who follow the faith of the 7. It is far more reasonable for them to believe Aegon unmarried than to offer themselves and their daughters to him as 3rd wives. 

4B, Becuase of this and the age of Sharras last born child, that is where im getting the 4 number from. Does it technically matter, no, but it shows she believes both herself and Aegon are free to marry. 

5. Aerion being alive may be the reason you dont here about Dragons in the other conflicts. He may have forbid it. 

6. You are right about the small number of Dragons and the possibilities behind it,  But that could also mean he just died and Rhaenys just because a dragon rider. 


We are both arguing theories based on little information. 

 

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

1. The Targaryens arrived on Dragonstone in 114 BC, Aegons conquest started 112 years later. We literally know nothing about Westeros in that time period other than 3 major events.  War between the Iron Islands and the Stormlands for control of the Riverlands, and even that is assumed and could have technically happened before 114 BC, Westerosi participating in the multiple wars between the Daughters of Valyria, And the War/battle between the Reach and Stormlands.  Other than that, we know nothing.

You have a minor point, but it is not fully correct we don't know anyhting about the Century of Blood in Westeros. We know Harwyn Hardhand conquered and ruled the Riverlands in that era, followed by his son Halleck and his grandson Harren, and there is no intention that they had any issues whatsoever with the Targaryens on Dragonstone. We know somewhat less about the Stormlands of the era, but we do know that Argilac's campaign in the Disputed Lands happened decades before Aegon's making it clear they had nothing to do with each other.

We also know the Targaryens prior to Aegon usually looked east rather than west, possibly not even bothering to concern themselves with Westeros at all (I don't think that's completely accurate, there would have been some ties with some houses close to their island kingdom like the Darklyns, Masseys, Bar Emmons, Estermonts, Tarths, etc.) but we have no reason to imagine the Targaryens gave a damn about the savages of Westeros prior to Aegon the Conqueror.

21 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

We are told that there are multiple wars between these factions, so it is possible Aegon participate in one and no one from Westeros saw the Dragons, but it is also possible they did.

We can be reasonably sure that the Targaryens did not intervene in any conflict in the lands that would later be the Crownlands - if they had the history of the Riverlands and Stormlands and Iron Islands covering that era would have mentioned them. I mean, sure, perhaps some great-great-aunt or -uncle of Aegon's married some Dornish lord or Reach or Western lord and took his dragon there, but chances of something like that happening are very slim.

George could still invent stuff like that but it fit not well into established canon.

21 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

The point overall is that there is no mention what so ever to marriages in the sense you argued.

We have enough evidence for me - and I'm not even sure what you are arguing in favor anymore? That Lord Aerion wanted to marry Rhaenys to some Westerosi lord? That was your original point, was it not? We have no positive evidence for that at all.

21 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

2. Jaehaerys Children - 

There were only 2 adult dragons that were riderless when Aegon had living children old enough to ride. One was Dreamfyre, after Rheana died, the other was Balerion. All the other dragons mentioned in the story were either not born yet, wild, or we dont know their birth to confirm them. 

You have to go back and reread FaB. There were more dragons in the Dragonpit and on Dragonstone that are mentioned by name. When Aerea is young there are many more dragons than just Dreamfyre, Vhagar, and Balerion on Dragonstone:

Quote

Dragonstone did have one thing King’s Landing largely lacked: dragons. In the great citadel under the shadow of the Dragonmont, more dragons were being born every time the moon turned, or so it seemed. The eggs that Dreamfyre had laid on Fair Isle had all hatched once on Dragonstone, and Rhaena Targaryen had made certain that her daughter made their acquaintance. “Choose one and make him yours,” the queen urged the princess, “and one day you will fly.” There were older dragons in the yards as well, and beyond the walls wild dragons that had escaped the castle made their lairs in hidden caves on the far side of the mountain. Princess Aerea had known Vermithor and Silverwing during her time at court, but she had never been allowed too close to them. Here she could visit with the dragons as often as she liked; the hatchlings, the young drakes, her mother’s Dreamfyre…and greatest of them all, Balerion and Vhagar, huge and ancient and sleepy, but still terrifying when they woke and stirred and spread their wings.

There was no shortage of dragons in those days. We don't get precise numbers, but the images those words evoke are about a dozen or more dragons on Dragonstone in those days, not just a handful.

And the Dragonpit did later not only house many unnamed dragons, too. They may have died of natural or unnatural causes, those on Dragonstone could have been devoured by the Cannibal, etc.

Aemon can pick from an unknown number of young dragons in the Dragonpit:

Quote

His mount was blood-red Caraxes, fiercest of all the young dragons in the Dragonpit. The Dragonkeepers, who knew the denizens of the pit better than anyone, called him the Blood Wyrm.

And that's year prior to Rhaena's death, meaning that Dreamfyre was still at Harrenhal.

There were more dragons around, and even if they died all very quickly (which doesn't seem the case when there were still dragons there for Saera to claim when she tried to reach the Dragonpit - or while Viserra was daring her suitors to put their hands in the mouths of dragons) then there would have still been Dreamfyre for another child of Jaehaerys I, Balerion, of course, and also Meleys after Alyssa's death (she would have not immediately passed to Rhaenys).

41 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

to add to this, Daella was terrified of dragons, Vaegon and Maegelle both swore them off in favor of religion and academics,

Daella has an excuse - but there is none for Maegelle, Vaegon, Saera, Viserra, and Gael. Vaegon, as I laid out, joined the Citadel at the age of fifteen, not as a young boy. There are multiple dragonriders who claimed their dragons at a very early age, Jaehaerys I and Alysanne included.

There is no internal reason why an archmaester and a septa could not have a dragon - they do have the ability and had they bonded with and claimed a dragon before they said their vows - which both Maegelle and Vaegon could have done - then they would have been a dragonriding archmaester and a dragonriding septa.

I certainly assumed prior to FaB that both Vaegon and Maegelle were given to the Faith and the Citadel as preteens - but this turned out to be not the case. Thus their careers are not the explanation as to why they never became dragonriders.

41 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Only Saera carried for them, and Fire and Blood never says Aegon forbade her from having one, it says she tried to steal one after he imprisoned her for sleeping with 3 young knights.

There is a lot of textual evidence for my case:

Quote

Grand Maester Elysar wrote of the princess in 69 AC, when she was only two. “Seven save us all when she is older. The Dragonkeepers had best lock up the dragons.” He had no notion how prophetic those words would be.

Indicating that the king was not giving his children (or anyone, for that matter) access to his dragons without permission. If it were different the Grand Maester would never presume to write a Targaryen could be barred from claiming a dragon - in fact, it would be his/her natural right - which it is not, at least not under Jaehaerys I.

Quote

She would not have that time. That very night, Princess Saera sealed her fate. Instead of remaining in her rooms as she had been instructed, she slipped away whilst visiting the privy, donned a washerwoman’s robes, stole a horse from the stables, and escaped the castle. She got halfway across the city, to the Hill of Rhaenys, but as she tried to enter the Dragonpit, she was found and taken by the Dragonkeepers and returned to the Red Keep.

Alysanne wept when she heard, for she knew her cause was hopeless. Jaehaerys was hard as stone. “Saera with a dragon,” was all he had to say. “Would she have taken Balerion as well, I wonder?” This time the princess was not allowed to return to her own chambers. She was confined to a tower cell instead, with Jonquil Darke guarding her day and night, even in the privy.

The bold does not imply that Jaehaerys I ever had any indication to allow his daughter Saera a dragon. She is compared to Aerea before, and her actions are not exactly seen in a positive light.

41 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Gael and Viserra were both young. By the time they would have been 12. Balerion  was claimed by Viserys I (93 AC), Leaving Dreamfyre as the only known ridable dragon.

The Dragonpit would have had at least Dreamfyre, there would have been hatchlings and drakes on Dragonstone.

Also, to be clear, later dragons like Seasmoke, Syrax, Sunfyre, and Tessarion are not confirmed to have hatched from cradle eggs. They could have been all young dragons who hatched on Dragonstone (or in the Dragonpit) to be handed to the children in question. In fact, for Sunfyre it is effectively confirmed that he is no cradle egg dragon since his birthplace is confirmed as Dragonstone.

It is thus not impossible that many of the dragons mentioned above did in fact hatch at some point during the reign of Jaehaerys I rather than being dragons that were only small hatchlings a couple of months or years old when they acquired their riders (less likely for Tessarion who was apparently still pretty young during the Dance, but not so much for the others).

[dsjj251]

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

You have a minor point, but it is not fully correct we don't know anyhting about the Century of Blood in Westeros. We know Harwyn Hardhand conquered and ruled the Riverlands in that era, followed by his son Halleck and his grandson Harren, and there is no intention that they had any issues whatsoever with the Targaryens on Dragonstone. We know somewhat less about the Stormlands of the era, but we do know that Argilac's campaign in the Disputed Lands happened decades before Aegon's making it clear they had nothing to do with each other.

We also know the Targaryens prior to Aegon usually looked east rather than west, possibly not even bothering to concern themselves with Westeros at all (I don't think that's completely accurate, there would have been some ties with some houses close to their island kingdom like the Darklyns, Masseys, Bar Emmons, Estermonts, Tarths, etc.) but we have no reason to imagine the Targaryens gave a damn about the savages of Westeros prior to Aegon the Conqueror.

We can be reasonably sure that the Targaryens did not intervene in any conflict in the lands that would later be the Crownlands - if they had the history of the Riverlands and Stormlands and Iron Islands covering that era would have mentioned them. I mean, sure, perhaps some great-great-aunt or -uncle of Aegon's married some Dornish lord or Reach or Western lord and took his dragon there, but chances of something like that happening are very slim.

George could still invent stuff like that but it fit not well into established canon.

We have enough evidence for me - and I'm not even sure what you are arguing in favor anymore? That Lord Aerion wanted to marry Rhaenys to some Westerosi lord? That was your original point, was it not? We have no positive evidence for that at all.

You have to go back and reread FaB. There were more dragons in the Dragonpit and on Dragonstone that are mentioned by name. When Aerea is young there are many more dragons than just Dreamfyre, Vhagar, and Balerion on Dragonstone:

There was no shortage of dragons in those days. We don't get precise numbers, but the images those words evoke are about a dozen or more dragons on Dragonstone in those days, not just a handful.

And the Dragonpit did later not only house many unnamed dragons, too. They may have died of natural or unnatural causes, those on Dragonstone could have been devoured by the Cannibal, etc.

Aemon can pick from an unknown number of young dragons in the Dragonpit:

And that's year prior to Rhaena's death, meaning that Dreamfyre was still at Harrenhal.

There were more dragons around, and even if they died all very quickly (which doesn't seem the case when there were still dragons there for Saera to claim when she tried to reach the Dragonpit - or while Viserra was daring her suitors to put their hands in the mouths of dragons) then there would have still been Dreamfyre for another child of Jaehaerys I, Balerion, of course, and also Meleys after Alyssa's death (she would have not immediately passed to Rhaenys).

Daella has an excuse - but there is none for Maegelle, Vaegon, Saera, Viserra, and Gael. Vaegon, as I laid out, joined the Citadel at the age of fifteen, not as a young boy. There are multiple dragonriders who claimed their dragons at a very early age, Jaehaerys I and Alysanne included.

There is no internal reason why an archmaester and a septa could not have a dragon - they do have the ability and had they bonded with and claimed a dragon before they said their vows - which both Maegelle and Vaegon could have done - then they would have been a dragonriding archmaester and a dragonriding septa.

I certainly assumed prior to FaB that both Vaegon and Maegelle were given to the Faith and the Citadel as preteens - but this turned out to be not the case. Thus their careers are not the explanation as to why they never became dragonriders.

There is a lot of textual evidence for my case:

Indicating that the king was not giving his children (or anyone, for that matter) access to his dragons without permission. If it were different the Grand Maester would never presume to write a Targaryen could be barred from claiming a dragon - in fact, it would be his/her natural right - which it is not, at least not under Jaehaerys I.

The bold does not imply that Jaehaerys I ever had any indication to allow his daughter Saera a dragon. She is compared to Aerea before, and her actions are not exactly seen in a positive light.

The Dragonpit would have had at least Dreamfyre, there would have been hatchlings and drakes on Dragonstone.

Also, to be clear, later dragons like Seasmoke, Syrax, Sunfyre, and Tessarion are not confirmed to have hatched from cradle eggs. They could have been all young dragons who hatched on Dragonstone (or in the Dragonpit) to be handed to the children in question. In fact, for Sunfyre it is effectively confirmed that he is no cradle egg dragon since his birthplace is confirmed as Dragonstone.

It is thus not impossible that many of the dragons mentioned above did in fact hatch at some point during the reign of Jaehaerys I rather than being dragons that were only small hatchlings a couple of months or years old when they acquired their riders (less likely for Tessarion who was apparently still pretty young during the Dance, but not so much for the others).

1. My point in context of the first paragraph was that we are not told of marriages among any of the Great Houses, or the other Targaryen children not married to each other for the 100 years before conquest.  So there is no evidence either way on that one.  However, the regions tended to marry within each other. My guess is that there are some Celtigars and Bar Emmons who have Targaryen blood, or may have been half Targaryen and been dragon riders themselves

2. When it comes to involvement with conflicts, I was actually referring to your comment saying that people would have known how to tame/take down a dragon if Targaryens had married away dragon riding women. I was pointing out that Westerosi men participated in the war where Aegon attack Volantis, and would have seen what ever tactics they used as well. 

3. I specifically said adult dragons for this reason. The young dragons cant be ridden;  And some of the older ones are too sluggish to fly, just as Balerion would be in 93 AC

4. Your Aerea quotes are from 51 AC.  Aemon didnt claim Caraxes until 72 A.C. , thats 20 years. Its very possible that the young dragons at Dragonstone are any combination of  the dragons claimed by others in the next 30 years. 

And besides, we know that when the Dance happens, there are only 5 unclaimed dragons that arent hatchlings  . 

 

5. Seasmoke and Tessarion are the same size, and Seasmoke is too small to ride when Leanor bonds with him. Rhaenyra names Syrax herself, and Sunfyre is "young" and smaller than the later in 120 AC, so while they could have been born  during the reign of King Jaehaerys I, they would have all been born late in his reign and not ridable, possibly after the deaths of the children you believe could have claimed them. 

 

6, Vaegon and Maegelle are both described as bookish, it is more likely than not that they just werent interested in dragons.  And since most of Jaehaerys children didnt claim dragons until 15+, you cant even argue that they should have claimed dragons younger. 

Also, im fine with your Saera argument, but that seems more like Saera being wild than Jaehearys outright barring his children from being dragon riders. Isnt it more likely dragons are treated like cars, and you need to be "ready" and stable to ride one ? Especially since Rhaenys, Viserys, and Laenor claimed a dragon during his reign, and Laenor did not have the title of prince and was the heir to Driftmark. It is possible Deamon claimed Caraxes before the old kings death as well. 

[Lord Varys]

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

1. My point in context of the first paragraph was that we are not told of marriages among any of the Great Houses, or the other Targaryen children not married to each other for the 100 years before conquest.  So there is no evidence either way on that one.  However, the regions tended to marry within each other. My guess is that there are some Celtigars and Bar Emmons who have Targaryen blood, or may have been half Targaryen and been dragon riders themselves

We have it confirmed there were not Velaryon dragonriders prior to Laena and Laenor Velaryon, meaning that this kind of thing is exceedingly unlikely. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the Targaryen mother of Valaena Velaryon was likely no dragonrider herself - not just because there was a shortage of dragons at that point, but also because the Targaryens may not have wanted the Velaryons to have any. Else they certainly could have had some by the time of the Conquest and thereafter. In fact, Alyssa Velaryon certainly could have been a dragonrider. She would have had the blood for the thing, but nobody ever gave her a dragon.

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

2. When it comes to involvement with conflicts, I was actually referring to your comment saying that people would have known how to tame/take down a dragon if Targaryens had married away dragon riding women. I was pointing out that Westerosi men participated in the war where Aegon attack Volantis, and would have seen what ever tactics they used as well. 

No, this wasn't the case. Argilac campagined in Essos two decades or more before the Conquest, at a time when Aegon wasn't involved there.

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

3. I specifically said adult dragons for this reason. The young dragons cant be ridden;  And some of the older ones are too sluggish to fly, just as Balerion would be in 93 AC

There were other young dragons large enough to be ridden by the time Aemon mounted his dragon.

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

4. Your Aerea quotes are from 51 AC.  Aemon didnt claim Caraxes until 72 A.C. , thats 20 years. Its very possible that the young dragons at Dragonstone are any combination of  the dragons claimed by others in the next 30 years. 

And besides, we know that when the Dance happens, there are only 5 unclaimed dragons that arent hatchlings  . 

Sure, there is no guarantee that all of them would still be around, but the impression one gets - actually the knowledge we have - implies that there were dragons enough for more than just three children of Jaehaerys I to become dragonriders.

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

5. Seasmoke and Tessarion are the same size, and Seasmoke is too small to ride when Leanor bonds with him. Rhaenyra names Syrax herself, and Sunfyre is "young" and smaller than the later in 120 AC, so while they could have been born  during the reign of King Jaehaerys I, they would have all been born late in his reign and not ridable, possibly after the deaths of the children you believe could have claimed them. 

This doesn't really matter much because we do know that dragons do not grow to equal size or even at the same speed. Meraxes died over a century before Vhagar yet her skull is still larger than Vhagar's. Vermithor is larger than Silverwing despite they being about the same age, Dreamfyre is effectively confirmed to have been older than Vermithor and Silverwing both, yet she is smaller than Vermithor at her death.

And we do know that allegedly the Dragonpit slowed the growth of the dragons, making the later generations somewhat smaller, which could very well mean that Tessarion suffered from that to no small degree, unlike the dragons which were kept on Dragonstone or Driftmark or in the Red Keep (like Silverwing and Vermithor).

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

6, Vaegon and Maegelle are both described as bookish, it is more likely than not that they just werent interested in dragons.  And since most of Jaehaerys children didnt claim dragons until 15+, you cant even argue that they should have claimed dragons younger.

I certainly can claim that Maegelle could have been given a dragon hatchling at a young age - as is the case for their own parents and King Aenys and Queen Rhaena and many other later Targaryens and Velaryons - and I certainly can also claim that Vaegon could have decided to emulate his older brothers a fortnight before his father decided to send him to the Citadel (or even thereafter).

It would be interesting to have a basis for there being an individual reason why those Targaryens did not become dragonriders - but we only have that for Daella - there is no explanation given for Maegelle, Vaegon, Saera, Viserra, and Gael.

In fact, George seems to have written himself into a corner, having so many young dragons during the reign of Viserys I making it difficult to add new ones hatching from cradle eggs during the reign of Jaehaerys I - which is likely why he dropped the cradle egg theme he tried to introduce with Jaehaerys/Alysanne (which is given only as a legend and is thus possibly not accurate) and then with Aemon (where the egg seems to lead nowhere, since it is never again mentioned). But the way to deal with that could certainly have been to have more dragons die of natural and unnatural causes during the reign of Jaehaerys I - or have even some simply disappear (like, say, having a prince or princess take his/her dragon across the Sunset Sea, down the Summer Sea, to Sothoryos or what not to never return).

Dreamfyre and even Balerion definitely could have had another rider between Rhaena-Helaena and Aerea-Viserys.

13 minutes ago, dsjj251 said:

Also, im fine with your Saera argument, but that seems more like Saera being wild than Jaehearys outright barring his children from being dragon riders. Isnt it more likely dragons are treated like cars, and you need to be "ready" and stable to ride one ? Especially since Rhaenys, Viserys, and Laenor claimed a dragon during his reign, and Laenor did not have the title of prince and was the heir to Driftmark. It is possible Deamon claimed Caraxes before the old kings death as well. 

I'd say the Saera example implies that the king decided who would get a dragon and when - and character traits played into that. A little female Maegor (which is what Saera was) wouldn't get a dragon, and one could certainly also see Alysanne deciding that the beautiful siren that was Viserra was unfit to be a dragonrider as well. And, sure, for Maegelle they could have made a similar decision, deciding that as a septa she wouldn't need a dragon. Vaegon is somewhat different, though. Here it could have helped to have the boy crack a line that it is idiotic to waste any time in one's life to ride a bloody animal, or that nothing is more unpleasant to cling to a dragon's back or something of that sort.

It is quite clear that the Old King's children who became dragonriders did only do that with their father's permission. Had Jaehaerys I not wanted them to get in the Dragonpit the Dragonkeepers wouldn't have allowed them inside - just as they barred Saera from claiming a dragon.

I think it is a given that Viserys and Daemon claimed their dragons only with the king's persmission. Laenor had been given a young dragon by the time of the Great Council, implying but not confirming that this was not done by means of access to the Dragonpit but by means of an egg from Meleys that hatched on Driftmark. Access to such a dragon Jaehaerys I could not control.

[BlackLightning]

On 11/14/2019 at 3:28 PM, Jaak said:

We are told that unlike incest, polygamy had not been a Targaryen custom. Aegon married Visenya for duty and Rhaenys for love.

Meaning that people in on Targaryen customs - like Aerion - expected Aegon to marry just Visenya - and Rhaenys to marry someone else.

Who?

Maybe Orys. Or a Velaryon...or maybe the Qoherys man.

I don't blame Jaehaerys (or Aegon for that matter) for wanting to "keep their cards close to their chest" as far as dragons are concerned. They are both dangerous apex predators (think having a lion for a pet) but they are also weapons of mass destruction. I can see how Jaehaerys was so strict as far as his children were concerned.

But I do think Jaehaerys was very sexist (almost misogynistic). I don't see why he would be so haunted by the Aerea incident.

On 11/21/2019 at 12:30 AM, Lord Varys said:

There is evidence for this - the fact that no one mentioned anything about a female Targaryen dragonlord with a dragon living with her Westerosi lordly or kingly husband in his land. We also have the clumsy attempts of the Westerosi kings and lords to fight against the Targaryen dragonriders during the Conquest - which they certainly would have been better at if some of their peers had had dragonlord wives with dragons in the past.

They would have then seen dragons used in war before, and would have already tested various strategies against them. They might have even killed dragons before, considering no Targaryen brought to Westeros by some Targaryen wife before the Conquest is still alive by the time of the Conquest.

You can read it in FaB. Jaehaerys I jealously guarded his own dragons. He did not give any of his children dragon eggs or hatchlings (aside from Aemon whose egg apparently did not hatch), and he did not suffer his children to hang out with dragons all the time. They were kept in the Dragonpit, only Silverwing and Vermithor were allowed in the Red Keep.

The only daughter he permitted a dragon was Alyssa - after she had been married to her own brother Baelon, which ensured her dragon would remain in the family.

Maegelle, Vaegon, Daella, Saera, Viserra, and Gael were not given any dragons, and it explicitly said that the king wouldn't have allowed Saera a dragon.

But I lay out that all above.

This goes back to Aerea stealing a dragon. You can also draw it from both Rhaena's and Jaehaerys I's concern that other houses (the Lannisters in Rhaena's case and the Volantene triarchs in Jaehaerys I's case) may acquire Targaryen dragons and thus become dragonlords themselves. This is not something they want to see happening.

We don't know how strict Lord Aerion and the Dragonstonian Targaryens were about this, of course, but considering what kind of danger a Meraxes could pose for Dragonstone if she were to fall in the hands of an ambitious house after Rhaenys's death makes it very unlikely Lord Aerion ever entertained the notion to marry his dragonriding daughter to any powerful outsider - not in Westeros and especially not in the Free Cities (where the nobles wouldn't even need Targaryen blood to claim a dragon of their own, considering their strong Valyrian blood).

You confuse things. For one, there is standard age when you become a dragonrider. Many Targaryens claimed their dragons at a very early age.

Aegon I is born 27 BC, meaning he was 25 when the Conquest started. That could mean he was married to both his sisters (Visenya is two years older than Aegon, Rhaenys 1-2 years younger) for about ten years by that time. It could even be some years more if the marriages were not immediately consummated - it could also be fewer years, we don't know. But we cannot rule out that they were married for a pretty long time.

Sharra Arryn offers her own hand to Aegon only during the Conquest. Her age and children have nothing to do with Aegon or his sisters nor their marriages. She considered herself a potential third wife to Aegon.

The fact that Lord Aerion is essentially never mentioned when we hear something about Targaryen stuff before the Conquest (Aegon fighting Volantis, Aegon & Visenya visiting Westeros, Aegon planning to conquer Westeros) we can be reasonably sure he is dead for quite some time by 2 BC when the Conquest begins. I'd feel confident guessing the old man has to be dead for at least five years by that time, perhaps somewhat longer.

One has also to consider that Lord Aerion himself may have had dragon of his own, and since the Targaryens apparently had only three of them by the time of the Conquest it may have been one of the dragons of his children - which would mean Aerion would then have died before the marriage of his children.

If he had for some reason ridden Rhaenys's Meraxes before his death - and she claimed his dragon only after her father's death - then he could have had some outside marriage plans for her. But that would mean he must have been around until she was old enough to marry - which we also don't know. But if his dragon was Balerion, then Aegon could have claimed him only after his father's death - and that means his father would have to have been dead by the time of the Volantis affair.

In fact, we do know that Aegon seems to have arranged his own marriages, since Gyldayn claims Aegon decided to marry both his sisters. He also implies that Aegon made the choice to marry Visenya - there is no indication that either marriage was arranged by a parent of the siblings.

With all that we basically have no idea what went before the Conquest aside from a pretty good guess that Aerion wasn't around until shortly before the Conquest and the chance that the siblings were married for quite some time before the Conquest (although the evidence for the former is stronger than for the latter).

But see that's the problem.

Aerea never stole a dragon. Balerion was her mount.

[Lord Varys]

28 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But I do think Jaehaerys was very sexist (almost misogynistic). I don't see why he would be so haunted by the Aerea incident.

But see that's the problem.

Aerea never stole a dragon. Balerion was her mount.

She took a dragon she apparently couldn't handle and got herself killed. Not to mention the effect it had that a beast like Balerion wasn't under the control of a responsible person.

Afterwards, dragons were shut away.