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Doctor Who II


AncalagonTheBlack

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I hope they get Phoebe Waller-Bridge in. 

I'm okay with it- I mostly enjoy Chibnall's run, he has good ideas, though Timeless Child is a cheek even though I don't hate it the way some do- but it's a bit unmemorable, largely because he's a bad writer of dialogue.  I have enjoyed the visual style he brought to the table. Hopefully being one contained story in eight episodes mean the final season has a bit more polish when it needs it.


And I hope whoever takes over at least some of the time sticks with his notions of historical episodes like Rosa and the Punjab one.

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On 1/8/2021 at 5:49 PM, Werthead said:

That's probably been Nu-Who's biggest problem. The original series changed style and tone every few seasons, sometimes being sillier and more lighthearted, sometimes more serious and more of a drama (and, very briefly, actually exploring harder SF ideas in the late Baker/early Davison era). The new show's been pretty consistent at being a lightweight show since 2005 and could probably stand to have the tone and style changed more dramatically, even if just as a one-off, one-episode experiment.

For most parts, yes. But to Nu-Who also had pretty strong episodes.

The Ecclestone season had the The Empy Child/The Doctor Dances, Father's Day.

Tennant had Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Human Nature/Family of Blood, The Girl in the Fireplace.

Smith had The Doctor's Wife (that one is imho up there with any episode from the classic era), The Girl who waited, Amy's Choice.

There's also a difference in story telling. Classic Who had those longer mini-arcs. Which allows better story telling, than most monster of the week stuff. Which is in part born out of financial necessities. As in using the same set for a 4 episode arch was simply cheaper (esp. in the Hartnell/Troughton eras), than using it just once. Yes, Moffatt tried to and consistently failed to go into that direction. And there really hasn't been a Douglas Adams writing for NuWho.

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My vote for new showrunner would be J. Michael Straczynski, who'd bring serious SF credibility (Babylon 5) and a reputation for writing progressive storylines and characters (via Sense8). Yeah, he's American, but fuck it, he's said he'd do it enough times, even at the appalling pay the BBC offers.

For a new Doctor, I think the logic would be that reverting to a male actor would be taken in some quarters as a suggestion that 13 was an aberration of some kind, rather than the eventual new normal which would be considering both male and female actors for the role; they might want 14 to be another woman just to bed in the idea that no, it wasn't a one-off situation. Realistically, they probably need to get the new showrunner spooling up ASAP to make the decision.

2 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Finally! Three series makes sense and I can totally buy the rumours that her agent told her to get out since the terrible performance of the show will hurt her career, but for the showrunner to leave after such a short period is a huge surprise. But if the show continues, it will make no difference who is in charge while the BBC continue to push their agenda.

The show's performance has been fine and mostly comparable to the Capaldi era, excepting the massive bump at the start of the Whittaker period which briefly raised it to the heights of the Tennant epoch. That's made the later ratings performance look much worse than it really was. Its international sales and profile remains reasonably strong (interestingly, since my perception was that the USA's obsession with Who is firmly over and they've moved on, but apparently it's still doing okay over there as well).

I do think the show is in an awkward place where it's simply looking far too cheap to reasonably compete with American shows, most of which have much higher budgets; Star Trek: Discovery has seven times the budget, Wheel of Time has more than twelve times the budget and the new Lord of the Rings show has almost thirty times the budget (you could film two-and-a-half seasons of Who for a single episode of Neo-LotR). But the BBC simply can't give them more money under their current scrutiny, despite the vast profits the show rakes in, so it will continue to lose episodes, look cheaper and eventually become unproduceable, unless they enter into a deal with Netflix or Amazon.

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12 minutes ago, Werthead said:

 

For a new Doctor, I think the logic would be that reverting to a male actor would be taken in some quarters as a suggestion that 13 was an aberration of some kind, rather than the eventual new normal which would be considering both male and female actors for the role;

 

The only way they'll pick a man is if it's a PoC. Obviously they could pick a PoC that is a lady but... Certain segments will cry about this and complain if it's not a white guy, but fuck them people. Just as long as it's someone good, and not Richard Ayoade. 

 

Also I hope we get an answer to JoDoctor in the remaining episodes. 

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2 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

The only way they'll pick a man is if it's a PoC. Obviously they could pick a PoC that is a lady but... Certain segments will cry about this and complain if it's not a white guy, but fuck them people. Just as long as it's someone good, and not Richard Ayoade. 

Also I hope we get an answer to JoDoctor in the remaining episodes. 

If it is someone like Ayoade, I'd hope they'd pull a Jon Pertwee where they're hired for their comedic touch, but they see it as a gateway to serious dramatic roles and come in and play the role much more straight and dramatic.

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5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

If it is someone like Ayoade, I'd hope they'd pull a Jon Pertwee where they're hired for their comedic touch, but they see it as a gateway to serious dramatic roles and come in and play the role much more straight and dramatic.

 

9 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

The only way they'll pick a man is if it's a PoC. Obviously they could pick a PoC that is a lady but... Certain segments will cry about this and complain if it's not a white guy, but fuck them people. Just as long as it's someone good, and not Richard Ayoade. 

 

Also I hope we get an answer to JoDoctor in the remaining episodes. 

It's so wrong that the role is no longer based on the actor's skill but on their skin colour or gender. Its stuff like this that is ruining entertainment and the BBC with their inclusion and diversity policy are just as bad or worse.

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6 minutes ago, Werthead said:

If it is someone like Ayoade, I'd hope they'd pull a Jon Pertwee where they're hired for their comedic touch, but they see it as a gateway to serious dramatic roles and come in and play the role much more straight and dramatic.

I really like Ayoade and he’s the sort of quirky character that could be good, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest he has serious acting chops.. he’s better at showing  how to act really badly.

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Just now, Ghostlydragon said:

It's so wrong that the role is no longer based on the actor's skill but on their skin colour or gender

 

In this one particular instance the choice will be made in part on skin colour or gender, most likely, to avoid a perception of caving to sexists.

But they still won't be picking some random person off the street, they'll still be sifting a pretty massive talent pool to pick for the best person. And once they have established beyond takebacks that the Doctor can be whoever, the role will be based on the actor's skill but with a much bigger pool to pick from than when it was just white men.

 

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

I really like Ayoade and he’s the sort of quirky character that could be good, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest he has serious acting chops.. he’s better at showing  how to act really badly.

Yeah, I like Ayoade as a comedian well enough, but people seem to want him to be the Doctor basically because his whole persona is an incarnation of the Doctor anyway. He can't act as far as I can tell. 

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Definitely not clear who could take over from Chibnall if they continue the tradition of passing it down through the writers. Nina Metivier and Vinay Patel both rising stars, have developed their own projects and the ones that seem the most committed to DW. Patel has written for this years series so he’s now on the same number of episodes Chibnall had before becoming showrunner.

If we’re just throwing names out I’d like to see Brian Eastley and Jamie Brittain. Jack Thorne or PWB if we’re shooting for the moon, doubt either of those would want to be a showrunner. The Doctor, I don’t really care. Be better if it was a non white woman though.

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12 minutes ago, Ghostlydragon said:

It's so wrong that the role is no longer based on the actor's skill but on their skin colour or gender. Its stuff like this that is ruining entertainment and the BBC with their inclusion and diversity policy are just as bad or worse.

This attitude automatically assumes that a black person or a woman will be inferior to a white actor in the same role, which is, of course, ridiculous. There are plenty of extremely talented actors and actresses of whatever ethnicity who could excel in the role (as indeed has been the case for many years, with Paterson Joseph being the favourite to take over the role and is rumoured to have turned it down before Matt Smith accepted).

The BBC has taken the view that neither Britain nor the world and certainly not a fictional planet called Gallifrey are homogenously white and male, and they are spreading their casting nets wider than that.

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18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This attitude automatically assumes that a black person or a woman will be inferior to a white actor in the same role, which is, of course, ridiculous. 

No it doesn’t. It’s just stating what we all know to be the case, that the BBC will make a conscious decision to cast based on race / gender first, it’s really unlikely they will go and cast a white male for the role now for the reasons stated above. That has nothing to do with suggesting anyone is worse than anyone else.

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4 hours ago, dog-days said:

Jodie Whittaker and Chris Chibnall to leave Doctor Who in 2022

Didn't have a problem with Jodie Whittaker, but am relieved that Chibnall's going and not doing a two-doctor run like Davies and Moffat. 

I don’t like Chibnall either.  Whittaker is a great Doctor 

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24 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No it doesn’t. It’s just stating what we all know to be the case, that the BBC will make a conscious decision to cast based on race / gender first, it’s really unlikely they will go and cast a white male for the role now for the reasons stated above. That has nothing to do with suggesting anyone is worse than anyone else.

Sure, Jan. By the way, I have an absolutely magnificent bridge I'd like to sell you.

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29 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Betfair has Michaela Coel as the favourite currently, but also Michael Sheen as second favourite even though he’s a white man and thus apparently uncastable :dunno:


Sheen's been in the odds for every doctor for the last while, along with Nathalie Dormer. Can't really see the BBC going for either.

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7 minutes ago, sifth said:

Chibnall leaving will only improve this shows quality, though I worry the damage is already done.

Of course it has. Dr Who is the only show I can think of to change the past for no good reason. Something like star wars can just pretend the disney trilogy never existed and set stories before it but doctor who has changed the history of the show to a point it can't just pretend never happened (unless it was all lies the master came up with).

And getting a far better, proven sci-fi writer in will help loads, but he or she needs to take charge and not allow the BBC to interfere and push their agendas into the show.

Unless of course the show is gonna be put on a break for a while. With the expense and with how unpopular it is atm, I'm sure the BBC would love to give it a rest for a while. I imagine it isn't that different right now to how it was in 1989.

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2 minutes ago, Ghostlydragon said:

doctor who has changed the history of the show to a point it can't just pretend never happened 

 

Mate, this is Doctor Who. The Doctor is a living agent of retcons. The past can be whatever the present showrunner wants it to be. 

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3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

Mate, this is Doctor Who. The Doctor is a living agent of retcons. The past can be whatever the present showrunner wants it to be. 

True but they used to follow established lore. Moffat remembered that there are thirteen lives in a regeneration cycle. But as Chibnall was able to write whatever he wanted, it changed what was established.

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