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Alyn Oakenfist

TWOW in July 2020 seems ever more likely

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, LynnS said:

The question for me isn't about whether or not George will be around to write ADOS; but whether or not, I'll be around to read it.  

I feel the same, also very discouraged  by the rush of HBO ending, thinking it might happen the same to the ASOIAF because GRRM wants to end the series in 2 books and I consider more books are needed for it.

Edited by Melq

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8 minutes ago, Melq said:

I feel the same, also very discouraged  by the rush of HBO ending, thinking it might happen the same to the ASOIF because GRRM wants to end the series in 2 books and I consider more books are needed for it.

Tbh I'd rather have a bit of a rushed ending and an imperfect one, than no ending at all. And it won't be difficult for GRRM to top D&D. Most ppl could imo. to me it felt like something they put together during one night while drinking. Like they didn't even try. worse than 8th grade school report :D at least there you've got to respect the themes or you'll get a bad grade lol

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On 5/8/2020 at 8:14 AM, Nagini's Neville said:

How has this conversation turned so morbid ?

The TWOW-subforum regularly oscillates form sardonism over sarcasm and cynicism to nihilism, speckled with light glimpses of madness and hope, the bane of humankind (Nietzsche was right with that one).

You must forgive us, we are sitting here for a while. ;)

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11 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Storylines can end abruptly. Ask, Ned, Robb, Tywin, even Joffrey. Their end was not rushed. It was great moments, logical.
I think ASoIaF can end in two books.

All those deaths were books 1-3; before the pace ground to a halt.

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35 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

All those deaths were books 1-3; before the pace ground to a halt.

Books 4 & 5 were moving characters, having them experience things that redefine them. Drawing the background of the Ice & Fire war. What would have been the five years gap. The pace should accelerate. Ok, not with Arianne or Sansa preview chapters (but they are old chapters). The Frosaken was different. Victarion too.

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1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Storylines can end abruptly. Ask, Ned, Robb, Tywin, even Joffrey. Their end was not rushed. It was great moments, logical.
I think ASoIaF can end in two books.

Yeah, maybe GRRM should just have the other kill them all- there's a way to wrap up the story quickly- in two or maybe just one book :lol:

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1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Books 4 & 5 were moving characters, having them experience things that redefine them. Drawing the background of the Ice & Fire war. What would have been the five years gap. The pace should accelerate. Ok, not with Arianne or Sansa preview chapters (but they are old chapters). The Frosaken was different. Victarion too.

....Except as someone else said, the sample chapters from Winds don't show any acceleration or any tightening up of the writing, but the same over written, overly detailed-needs-a-good-edit style of the last two books.  

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12 minutes ago, Dot Com said:

How likely is it that he releases TWOW in two volumes at the same time. 

From the logical pov I think it is very likely. He has always said that the last books will be longer than the previous ones and we have a bunch of stuff from adwd and affc moved to winds. If adwd was too big it doesn t make sense that winds won t be much bigger and not fit between covers. In adition, grrm didn t like to publish affc and adwd separatly so it is unlikely that he will ever do anything like that.

 

The problem here is from the comercial pov. It doesn t make sense to publish 2 books at the same time… Maybe they can invent some technical reson to have a month of interval between books without pissing of the fans, but I doubt it… Maybe they can have a special price so that people buy the 2 books at the same time?

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6 minutes ago, divica said:

Maybe they can have a special price so that people buy the 2 books at the same time?

Lol it would probably cost $70 like an AAA video game. 

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3 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Books 4 & 5 were moving characters, having them experience things that redefine them. Drawing the background of the Ice & Fire war. What would have been the five years gap. The pace should accelerate. Ok, not with Arianne or Sansa preview chapters (but they are old chapters). The Frosaken was different. Victarion too.

Look at victarion's part. From memory we have 2 barristan, 2 tyrion and 1 victarion to describe part of the battle. So just this battle of meeren will take at least around 10 chaps. That is more than 10% of the book...

Then you can add arianne's and griff's portions until the end of their battle. I will easily take more than 5 chaps (we already have 2 from ari and I doubt grrm will bring ari there and describe the battle in less than 3 chaps…)

Then you have stannis battle and theon's fate. More a couple of chaps...

 

You can easily see that at least 30% of the book will be dealing with stuff that comes from adwd and will happen within a very short time frame in the story. It is completly unbelivable that the story can end within 2 books. 

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6 minutes ago, Dot Com said:

Lol it would probably cost $70 like an AAA video game. 

that seems a little too much...

But if they can come up with a good solution to selling 2 books at the same time then I completly believe winds might take 2 volumes.

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2 minutes ago, divica said:

You can easily see that at least 30% of the book will be dealing with stuff that comes from adwd and will happen within a very short time frame in the story. It is completly unbelivable that the story can end within 2 books. 

That's what discourages me.. and GRRM have been stuck nearly 10 years trying to get all POVs together in Westeros when he could keep writing 2-3 more books... Seems he's decided to end it in 2 books and that could cause the very same rush ending of HBO, with horrible quality.

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11 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Books 4 & 5 were moving characters, having them experience things that redefine them. Drawing the background of the Ice & Fire war. What would have been the five years gap. The pace should accelerate. Ok, not with Arianne or Sansa preview chapters (but they are old chapters). The Frosaken was different. Victarion too.

I think that is unduly harsh on the Alayne sample chapter.  We are suddenly plunged into a tourney at the Gates of the Moon that appears to come out of nowhere.  An awful lot happens in the Vale very quickly during this chapter, including meeting and redefining the relationship between Sansa and Harry the Heir.  More happens in this chapter, in terms of moving pieces, than the majority of the Sansa/Alayne arc in Feast!  (Which I loved by the way, I'm not complaining!)

I think there is a feeling with all of the released chapters that things are really ramping up - while still having the complexity and depth of AFFC/ADWD.  The development of Arianne as a character over those sample chapters is top notch.

8 hours ago, divica said:

Look at victarion's part. From memory we have 2 barristan, 2 tyrion and 1 victarion to describe part of the battle. So just this battle of meeren will take at least around 10 chaps. That is more than 10% of the book...

Then you can add arianne's and griff's portions until the end of their battle. I will easily take more than 5 chaps (we already have 2 from ari and I doubt grrm will bring ari there and describe the battle in less than 3 chaps…)

Then you have stannis battle and theon's fate. More a couple of chaps...

 

You can easily see that at least 30% of the book will be dealing with stuff that comes from adwd and will happen within a very short time frame in the story. It is completly unbelivable that the story can end within 2 books. 

I don't think that the number of chapters dictates the size of the book.  AFFC has significantly longer chapters than any other in the series, while AGOT has the shortest - yet when events are coming thick and fast, such as Arya at the Red Wedding, the chapters tend to be shorter.  I think that Victarion I is the shortest chapter that has been released so far.  There may be a number of viewpoints covering the events of the Battle for Meereen, but that doesn't mean that it will take up a huge chunk of the novel.

I do agree with you that GRRM is likely to struggle to complete the story in two novels unless he releases them in Parts.

Though, surely we are getting to the point (as with ADWD, as with AFFC) that Martin's publishers are pressuring him to release some new material - maybe another book, or maybe another split - but they will be looking to publish something soon?

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Overall, I enjoyed both AFFC and ADWD, but what makes them somewhat frustrating is that they are both building up towards various climaxes that we'll only see in the first half of TWOW.

 

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22 minutes ago, Loras said:

I think that is unduly harsh on the Alayne sample chapter.  We are suddenly plunged into a tourney at the Gates of the Moon that appears to come out of nowhere.  An awful lot happens in the Vale very quickly during this chapter, including meeting and redefining the relationship between Sansa and Harry the Heir.  More happens in this chapter, in terms of moving pieces, than the majority of the Sansa/Alayne arc in Feast!  (Which I loved by the way, I'm not complaining!)

I think there is a feeling with all of the released chapters that things are really ramping up - while still having the complexity and depth of AFFC/ADWD.  The development of Arianne as a character over those sample chapters is top notch.

I don't think that the number of chapters dictates the size of the book.  AFFC has significantly longer chapters than any other in the series, while AGOT has the shortest - yet when events are coming thick and fast, such as Arya at the Red Wedding, the chapters tend to be shorter.  I think that Victarion I is the shortest chapter that has been released so far.  There may be a number of viewpoints covering the events of the Battle for Meereen, but that doesn't mean that it will take up a huge chunk of the novel.

I do agree with you that GRRM is likely to struggle to complete the story in two novels unless he releases them in Parts.

Though, surely we are getting to the point (as with ADWD, as with AFFC) that Martin's publishers are pressuring him to release some new material - maybe another book, or maybe another split - but they will be looking to publish something soon?

They wanted him to split TWOW in 2018. 

Per GRRM in the comments:

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2018/04/25/fire-blood-on-the-way/

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3 hours ago, Loras said:

I think that is unduly harsh on the Alayne sample chapter.

I didn't say I didn't like Alayne chapters. I don't see where the Vale and Dorme are going. But I'm interested.

11 hours ago, divica said:

Look at victarion's part. From memory we have 2 barristan, 2 tyrion and 1 victarion to describe part of the battle. So just this battle of meeren will take at least around 10 chaps. That is more than 10% of the book...

Victarion, Barristan, Tyrion released chapters are excerpts, not full chapters. Victarion had a longer reading at Miscon 2012.

I don't think the battles will have lengthy chapters. None had so far, the Blackwater (mostly 2 Davos and Tyrion chapters), the Wall, Robb conquest, the Riverlands rampage. GRRM is all in preparation and aftermath. I'm not a fan of battle packed books. For me AFFC and ADWD were as good, if not better, than the previous 3.

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The chances he's working on two books at the same time are about zero, same with releasing two books at the same time, odds are zero of that happening.  I can't imagine he would do another disastrous geographic split either.  I expect Winds to be very similar to Dance, with very long chapters, unnecessary POVs, and not a lot of forward plot motion.  

It is May 10, meaning the window for a release in July is almost, but not quite, closed. 

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