Jump to content

What was the biggest mistake/butterfly effect in ASOIAF history?


Is he a ham?

Recommended Posts

  1. Daenys being such a dreamer
  2. A couple of randoms shepherds learning how to tame dragons.
  3. Jaeharys deciding that Baelon should inherit.
  4. Daemon nor riding over Gwayne Corbray, they sill would not get the w but it's always funny.
  5. Baelor not banging his wife.
  6. Baelor Breakspear deciding that was a great idea to participate in a trial by seven to save a hedge knight.
  7. Duncan meeting Jenny of Oldstones.
  8. Duncan's siblings following Duncan's path.
  9. Aegon 5 not forcing his kids to obey.
  10. Ghost of High heart, in anyway you want it.
  11. Jaeharys 2 being a total asshole to his kids.
  12. Aegon 5 letting Jaeharys 2 have his way and ruining his grandkids.
  13. Aegon 5 and Summerhall.
  14. Tytos actually getting to inherit.
  15. Elyn Reyne, in anyway you want it.
  16. Rhaegar, in anyway you want it.
  17. That little grey eyed shy kid saying hi to the nousy black haired boy up there in Eyrie, while old Jon thinks to himself, those kids are marvelous.
  18. Steffon and Cassandradying at the Shipbreak
  19. Patchface, just wait for it.
  20. Barri B pulling a miracle at Duskendale.
  21. Jaime listening to Cersei.
  22. Baelor Breakwind
  23. Brandon hearing about Lyanna.
  24. The day Tywin decided to destroy Tysha and lie about it.
  25. Aerys post Harrenhall, in anyway you want it.
  26. Old Jon's big buckets.
  27. Old Jon deciding it's a great idea to bring some young lad called Petyr to court.
  28. Domeric Bolton wanting to know his bro.
  29. Cersei deciding to not give him Robert children.
  30. Robert post Robellion, in anyway you want it.
  31. Robert's and Cersei's marriage, thanks Old Jon.
  32. Robert deciding that banging his coz was a great idea.
  33. Cersei deciding that banging her bro was a great idea.
  34. Lysa, in anyway you want it.
  35. Bran deciding to climb that day.
  36. Ned out of mercy, trying to save Cersei's children.
  37. The boar.
  38. AGOT Sansa, in anyway you want it.
  39. Mirri Mazduur.
  40. Stannis keeping his mouth shut for several months, leading to both Robert's and Ned's deaths but to Renly and Robbs crownings.
  41. Renly and Robb's crowning, in any way you want them.
  42. Balon deciding attack the North.
  43. Theon being total scum.
  44. Melisandre, in anyway you want it.
  45. Tyrion getting out of the Eyrie, the man singlehandely partially won the war for the Lannisters.

That's the biggest that comes to me on top of my head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd actually think that whatever or whoever did something to create or cause the Others to do what they did is the worst thing.

Perhaps it was some First Man breaking the Pact, perhaps something else. But the Others - who really embody the sins of forefathers - are what have the greatest effect on everything. In the end these people are all dancing on volcano their ancestors prepared for them. And they have no idea about that.

What lesson could that teach the reader?  The players have got to have choice.  It's the choices the players are making right now that are causing the Others to move.  Martin can't teach his readers a lesson if his actors are victims. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Texas Hold Em said:

The repercussions are gonna be catastrophic. 

Like what? The wildlings have been let through the wall, the others are coming & will either be defeated or destroy humanity (or maybe work with humanity in some form), the wall will likely fall - rendering the NW completely null & useless. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Texas Hold Em said:

What lesson could that teach the reader?  The players have got to have choice.  It's the choices the players are making right now that are causing the Others to move.  Martin can't teach his readers a lesson if his actors are victims. 

There is absolutely a lesson to be learned if the actors are victims. Why wouldn't there be? I think it could teach plenty of lessons to the reader & there are plenty of lessons to be taken from the series with or without the others but I don't agree that George's main point in writing the series is to teach a lesson anyway. It is ultimately to entertain. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Texas Hold Em said:

What lesson could that teach the reader?  The players have got to have choice.  It's the choices the players are making right now that are causing the Others to move.  Martin can't teach his readers a lesson if his actors are victims. 

The author is not trying to teach the reader a lesson. This is fantasy literature written for entertainment, not something that's supposed to educate us.

The idea is that the people in those books will finally learn that their entire culture - the whole First Men-Children Pact thing - is based on a lie. And that their ancestors were the ones who told their children those lies to be able to better sleep at night.

Coming to terms with the fact that the Others actually do have a right to kill them all because they are the bad guys is going to be tough - but then, if you don't want to die you can try to fight back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hoster betrothing Catelyn to Brandon Stark. That particular snowball led to Littlefinger persuading Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and start off the War of the Five Kings. I don't think that the Brandon/Catelyn match was a suitable one as Robert Baratheon, a man very much like Brandon, showed with his own marriage with Cersei.

On Jon going to rescue Jeyne/Arya: what would have happened if he made no plans to rescue her and she showed up at Castle Black?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Hoster betrothing Catelyn to Brandon Stark. That particular snowball led to Littlefinger persuading Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and start off the War of the Five Kings. I don't think that the Brandon/Catelyn match was a suitable one as Robert Baratheon, a man very much like Brandon, showed with his own marriage with Cersei.

On Jon going to rescue Jeyne/Arya: what would have happened if he made no plans to rescue her and she showed up at Castle Black?

Cat didn't have a brother to bang, it would've been fine.

Nah, seriously, Cat is not Cersei and  Robert and  especially post Robellion Robert is not Brandon.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Long Night and the Others return prophecy was given 1000's of years before. So it's not one recent mistake which brought it. I believe Rhaegar did something he thought was necessary to survive the Others. For example, having the PtwP.

Maybe the first mistake was First Men coming to Westeros. Or the Andals and their gods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The Long Night and the Others return prophecy was given 1000's of years before. So it's not one recent mistake which brought it. I believe Rhaegar did something he thought was necessary to survive the Others. For example, having the PtwP.

If Rhaegar ever believed in the Others we would know. Somebody would have mentioned that Rhaegar cared about the NW and the Watch when this was never so much as hinted at. Rhaegar would also have visited the Wall, one assumes, rather than just hectoring his old uncle with letters and doing nothing to help the Watch (that we are aware of).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If Rhaegar ever believed in the Others we would know

There are plenty of things we don't know. And it is GRRM way of telling his story. We know however he believed in the prophecy of the PtwP and something about Ice and Fire. And we know by Melisandre that the PtwP is linked to the return of the LN. And therefore the Others.

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Somebody would have mentioned that Rhaegar cared about the NW

Given the current state of the NW, or if his prophecies included its failure (even Old Nan refers to this eventuality), or its inadequacy to deal with the LN, then Rhaegar would no more try to support it than the rule of his family. But we know next to nothing about Rhaegar's plans. So we can't say "we would know".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/1/2019 at 9:58 PM, Is he a ham? said:

My choice is Lysa raping Littlefinger.

I'll agree to this. Plus Robb sending Theon to Pyke and Edmure leading his forces against Tywin at the fords, since they were both strongly advised to NOT do these things (by the same person), and these acts had strong repercussions for many people down the line.

Of course, the series is rife with examples of people making mistakes that were completely in-character that seemed like good ideas to them at the time, such as virtually everything Cersei does in AFFC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we are looking for only mistakes made in the Asoiaf series I would think Ned agreeing to become hand would be a big one, or taking his family to KL with him, or Robb sending The on to Pike. 

If we are including historical facts... the first men not keeping a clear WRITTEN account of how they ended he long night. Silly FM never learning to read and written the common tongue!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, north of the wall said:

If we are looking for only mistakes made in the Asoiaf series I would think Ned agreeing to become hand would be a big one, or taking his family to KL with him, or Robb sending The on to Pike. 

If we are including historical facts... the first men not keeping a clear WRITTEN account of how they ended he long night. Silly FM never learning to read and written the common tongue!

Facts. I cant believe they didn't write it down!

But the second biggest mistakes gotta be Ned as hand, however Ned was prepared to decline it. When Robert asked him to be Hand Ned knew his answer, but then Robert threw the curve ball.

Sansa

Cat told Ned that there's no way Ned can decline an invitation to the royal family, itd be suicide.

She goes for a walk, a date with her betrothed. Bam! Nymeria + Joff= Aryas hatred for Lannister

Tells Cersei Neds plan, well bye bye Ned. Stays in KL, well hello Robb. Chats with Margery, Loras in white and half burnt on Dragonstone. Marries Tyrion, all hail king Snow.

I mean the girls playing in the fucking snow when Petyr goes for the swoop and Lysa for the dive.

A little bird? Sansa Stark, you are the butterfly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, frenin said:

Cat didn't have a brother to bang, it would've been fine.

Nah, seriously, Cat is not Cersei and  Robert and  especially post Robellion Robert is not Brandon.

 

I mean that what we hear of Brandon is that he's basically Robert with a Northern flavor: a man who loves fighting and sleeping around. I don't think Brandon was the guy for Catelyn; how well would she have tolerated the same behavior?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I mean that what we hear of Brandon is that he's basically Robert with a Northern flavor: a man who loves fighting and sleeping around. I don't think Brandon was the guy for Catelyn; how well would she have tolerated the same behavior?

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. (Catelyn II, AGoT 6)

She would probably have grown disenchanted with Brandon, but it sounds like she would have tolerated infidelity as long as the bastards were kept away from her and her home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/2/2019 at 8:34 AM, Is he a ham? said:

I'm beginning to realize that this series is just one mistake after another lol.

It annoys me sometimes, I hate books where the plot only works if the characters do something stupid.

Maybe the POV trap kind of hides that a bit because few people think their actions are stupid. 

I would say the decisions by multiple people to meddle with both fire and ice magic is a biggie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...