What was the biggest mistake/butterfly effect in ASOIAF history?

[Angel Eyes]

16 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Facts. I cant believe they didn't write it down!

But the second biggest mistakes gotta be Ned as hand, however Ned was prepared to decline it. When Robert asked him to be Hand Ned knew his answer, but then Robert threw the curve ball.

Sansa

Cat told Ned that there's no way Ned can decline an invitation to the royal family, itd be suicide.

She goes for a walk, a date with her betrothed. Bam! Nymeria + Joff= Aryas hatred for Lannister

Tells Cersei Neds plan, well bye bye Ned. Stays in KL, well hello Robb. Chats with Margery, Loras in white and half burnt on Dragonstone. Marries Tyrion, all hail king Snow.

I mean the girls playing in the fucking snow when Petyr goes for the swoop and Lysa for the dive.

A little bird? Sansa Stark, you are the butterfly

That lies more on Robert and Ned agreeing to the match between Joffrey and Sansa. I personally don't like the match since I think it was stupid, but an impetus for the rest of the story? Not so much.

[Arthur Peres]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

 That lies more on Robert and Ned agreeing to the match between Joffrey and Sansa. I personally don't like the match since I think it was stupid, but an impetus for the rest of the story? Not so much.

Sansa was still pretty stupid. 

Sure she doesn't have any blame for the match, but she was stupid enough to ignore every single sign that Joffrey gave her. Threatning her sister, demanding the death of her pet, seeking fights with her older brother... all signs were there early on. and she was still dumb enough to use Cersei as confessor.

[Hugorfonics]

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

That lies more on Robert and Ned agreeing to the match between Joffrey and Sansa. I personally don't like the match since I think it was stupid, but an impetus for the rest of the story? Not so much.

Of course it is. Ned only went south because of Sansa, and Ned being Hand is the impetus.

Quote

 "Lord Eddard Stark, I would name you the Hand of the King."

Ned dropped to one knee. The offer did not surprise him; what other reason could Robert have had for coming so far? The Hand of the King was the second-most powerful man in the Seven Kingdoms. He spoke with the king's voice, commanded the king's armies, drafted the king's laws. At times he even sat upon the Iron Throne to dispense king's justice, when the king was absent, or sick, or otherwise indisposed. Robert was offering him a responsibility as large as the realm itself. It was the last thing in the world he wanted.

"Your Grace," he said. "I am not worthy of the honor."

Robert groaned with good-humored impatience. "If I wanted to honor you, I'd let you retire. I am planning to make you run the kingdom and fight the wars while I eat and drink and wench myself into an early grave." He slapped his gut and grinned. "You know the saying, about the king and his Hand?"

Ned knew the saying. "What the king dreams," he said, "the Hand builds."

"I bedded a fishmaid once who told me the lowborn have a choicer way to put it. The king eats, they say, and the Hand takes the shit." He threw back his head and roared his laughter. The echoes rang through the darkness, and all around them the dead of Winterfell seemed to watch with cold and disapproving eyes. Finally the laughter dwindled and stopped.

Ned was still on one knee, his eyes upraised. "Damn it, Ned," the king complained. "You might at least humor me with a smile."

"They say it grows so cold up here in winter that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death," Ned said evenly.

"Perhaps that is why the Starks have so little humor."

"Come south with me, and I'll teach you how to laugh again," the king promised. "You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done."

This offer did surprise him. "Sansa is only eleven."

Robert waved an impatient hand. "Old enough for betrothal. The marriage can wait a few years." The king smiled. "Now stand up and say yes, curse you."

"Nothing would give me greater pleasure, Your Grace," Ned answered. He hesitated. "These honors are all so unexpected. May I have some time to consider? I need to tell my wife . . . "

And his wife agrees, its all about Sansa

Quote

"I will refuse him," Ned said as he turned back to her. His eyes were haunted, his voice thick with doubt.

Catelyn sat up in the bed. "You cannot. You must not."

"My duties are here in the north. I have no wish to be Robert's Hand."

"He will not understand that. He is a king now, and kings are not like other men. If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him. Can't you see the danger that would put us in?"

Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!"

"You knew the man," she said. "The king is a stranger to you." Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. "Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face."

"Honors?" Ned laughed bitterly.

"In his eyes, yes," she said.

"And in yours?"

"And in mine," she blazed, angry now. Why couldn't he see? "He offers his own son in marriage to our daughter, what else would you call that? Sansa might someday be queen.

 

[Tai Pan]

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Sansa was still pretty stupid. 

Sure she doesn't have any blame for the match, but she was stupid enough to ignore every single sign that Joffrey gave her. Threatning her sister, demanding the death of her pet, seeking fights with her older brother... all signs were there early on. and she was still dumb enough to use Cersei as confessor.

Sansa was also very selfish.  She took Joffrey's side instead of telling the truth.  So the guilt for Micah's death was partially hers. 

[frenin]

18 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Sansa was still pretty stupid. 

Sure she doesn't have any blame for the match, but she was stupid enough to ignore every single sign that Joffrey gave her. Threatning her sister, demanding the death of her pet, seeking fights with her older brother... all signs were there early on. and she was still dumb enough to use Cersei as confessor.

Sansa is a 11 year old, raised to be the perfect pretty girl, perfect hair and less brains, it's no wonder that Sansa acts naively and it costs her a lot to understand that the world is full of Sandors and not of Loras.

If you want to blame someone blame Ned and blame Cat for raising and consenting a stupid girl and feed her mind with illusions and princes, don't blame the 11 years old adoctrinated child.

[Rose of Red Lake]

19 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Sansa was still pretty stupid. 

Sure she doesn't have any blame for the match, but she was stupid enough to ignore every single sign that Joffrey gave her. Threatning her sister, demanding the death of her pet, seeking fights with her older brother... all signs were there early on. and she was still dumb enough to use Cersei as confessor.

A grown ass man *cough Tyrion* did pretty much the same thing. And when Jon meets Dany...should be interesting to see how he ignores stuff about her. Other characters will or have made similar Sansa-ish mistakes.

[Arthur Peres]

58 minutes ago, frenin said:

Sansa is a 11 year old, raised to be the perfect pretty girl, perfect hair and less brains, it's no wonder that Sansa acts naively and it costs her a lot to understand that the world is full of Sandors and not of Loras.

If you want to blame someone blame Ned and blame Cat for raising and consenting a stupid girl and feed her mind with illusions and princes, don't blame the 11 years old adoctrinated child.

Cat and Ned also raised Arya, and unlike Sansa she was capable to see right through Joffrey.

I can forgive Sansa for every wrong judment, until the execution of Lady. After that she should be aware of what Joffrey was.

[Arthur Peres]

34 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

A grown ass man *cough Tyrion* did pretty much the same thing.

To what event or relationship are you refering here?

[kissdbyfire]

There are so many... like Rhaegar not deposing batshit nutjob Daddy Dearest. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

56 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

To what event or relationship are you refering here?

Think about it for a second.

[Arthur Peres]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Think about it for a second.

Shae?

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, Arthur Peres said:

Shae?

Ding ding ding. "All signs were there early on"

[Arthur Peres]

10 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Ding ding ding. "All signs were there early on"

Very diferent,

I know many men that were tricked by golddigers... I've never saw a girl brushe off and forgive her boyfriend after he killed her pet.

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

Cat and Ned also raised Arya, and unlike Sansa she was capable to see right through Joffrey.

I can forgive Sansa for every wrong judment, until the execution of Lady. After that she should be aware of what Joffrey was.

Not the same situation, Arya is misfit and is jealous of her sis, if Arya was as pretty as Sansa and did all the girly stuff she was supposed to do and she sucked at it, i grant you she would be dumber.

And the Tyrion thing is stupider, Tyrion perfectly knew that Shae was only with him for the money and the man tricked himself into thinking  otherwise.

[redriver]

31 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Very diferent,

I know many men that were tricked by golddigers... I've never saw a girl brushe off and forgive her boyfriend after he killed her pet.

Joffrey did not kill her pet.It was those nasty adults.Ned by deed.Robert by decree.Cersei by suggestion.

Those were at least paramount in the head of the pre pubescent girl we're discussing.

ETA Just to remind ya'll are we really blaming it all on Sansa?For fucking real??

[Rose of Red Lake]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Very diferent,

I know many men that were tricked by golddigers... I've never saw a girl brushe off and forgive her boyfriend after he killed her pet.

And to this day, many women are convinced that men love them even if they beat them. Might want to think about social context here. This is Sansa's first real experience in a relationship, and she wants romance; Tyrion is older and should know better. The point is that grown ass men are making the same mistakes as a teen girl in their first relationship hahaha

[Arthur Peres]

25 minutes ago, frenin said:

Not the same situation, Arya is misfit and is jealous of her sis, if Arya was as pretty as Sansa and did all the girly stuff she was supposed to do and she sucked at it, i grant you she would be dumber.

 And the Tyrion thing is stupider, Tyrion perfectly knew that Shae was only with him for the money and the man tricked himself into thinking  otherwise.

Don't know about that. Margeary was raised as Sansa, but seems to be much more fit and self aware. Sansa was selfish, spoiled, delusional, imature, lacked selfawareness and good judment. Arya is cleary natural more clever, Arya judment was the right one in the end,

Joffrey didn't just said something bad, he tried to kill Arya and her friend for giggles, and after failing takes revenge on something that has nothing to do with the past situation.

Sure Tyrion made a dumb mistake, but it's one that we actually see people making it. Try to kick your girlfriend's dog or cat (please don't) and see how she reacts...

[Arthur Peres]

9 minutes ago, redriver said:

Joffrey did not kill her pet.It was those nasty adults.Ned by deed.Robert by decree.Cersei by suggestion.

 

OK, then. Why Sansa still uses Cersei as her confessor later on then?

Sansa was dumb as rock, that's just how it is.

[Arthur Peres]

7 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

And to this day, many women are convinced that men love them even if they beat them. Might want to think about social context here. This is Sansa's first real experience in a relationship, and she wants romance; Tyrion is older and should know better. The point is that grown ass men are making the same mistakes as a teen girl in their first relationship hahaha

Abusive relationship exist sure, but usually the abuser poses as a ideal partner for some time. 

What Joffrey did on the start of their relationship is a major redflag that would destroy any trust, before it was built.

[redriver]

8 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

OK, then. Why Sansa still uses Cersei as her confessor later on then?

Sansa was dumb as rock, that's just how it is.

No doubt she was dumb around then.Children frequently are, I find ,especially in emotional and political matters.Call me sentimental but, I don't blame children for doing childish things nor would I hold them accountable as a causus belli.

Nor would anyone else in the history of the world ever.

Only you.