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Is he a ham?

Did Ramsay actually geld Theon?

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Is there any conclusive evidence for this? The closest thing Is during Ramsay's wedding night and how Theon said that he has no "something" but It could just mean that he had no right. On the other hand, there's a scene where Theon wants to have sex with one of Mace's spear wives which implies that he still at least has his balls. So did ramsay actually cut him root and stem, did he just cut the dick, did he mayhaps flayed the dick, or did he leave Theon's privates alone?

 

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Maybe circumcision. 

 

We know for certain that he’s suffered so much that he’s unable to perform. Even if Ramsay Snow didn’t cut his kraken, Theon is currently physically and emotionally scarred and has other concerns (ie staying alive). 

There are so many online threads regarding his condition that maybe GRRMartin will decide to answer this question directly in the next books. Who knows...

 

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19 hours ago, Is he a ham? said:

It could just mean that he had no right.

This was exactly what I thought.

But there is also this (Moat Cailin) :

Quote

"Lord Ramsay treats his captives honorably so long as they keep faith with him." He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh.

That other thing could be Theon's toy.
But it is said as if it was no more important than toes and fingers? Maybe he is refering is his name, Theon? IDK.

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19 hours ago, Is he a ham? said:

Is there any conclusive evidence for this? The closest thing Is during Ramsay's wedding night and how Theon said that he has no "something" but It could just mean that he had no right.

To which Rams says use your tounge.

39 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

That other thing could be Theon's toy.
 

Bingo.

Theres also the talk of Your not even a man

3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I believe he might as well flayed the thing.... which would make Theon unable to perform and maybe wish pain from sex with spearwife.

Shword. 

This is where it gets gross. Rams flays everything before he cuts, in fact he wants you to beg to cut because the flaying hurts so bad. Theon reminisces of this as Hornwood was thought to have ate her fingers for fear of starvation, when in fact she wished for her fingers to come off because of the pain of flay

Poor fucking Theon

2 hours ago, Gingin said:

Maybe circumcision. 

Lol, no

2 hours ago, Gingin said:

Who knows...

It is known

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54 minutes ago, Gingin said:

We know nothing lol

Nah we know.

Quote

 Ramsay smiled his wet smile. "Does she make your cock hard, Reek? Is it straining against your laces? Would you like to fuck her first?" He laughed. "The Prince of Winterfell should have that right, as all lords did in days of old. The first night. But you're no lord, are you? Only Reek. Not even a man, truth be told."

He took another gulp of wine, then threw the cup across the room to shatter off a wall. Red rivers ran down across the stone.

"Lady Arya. Get on the bed. Yes, against the pillows, that's a good wife. Now spread your legs. Let us see your cunt."

The girl obeyed, wordless. Theon took a step back toward the door. Lord Ramsay sat beside his bride, slid his hand along her inner thigh, then jammed two fingers up inside her. The girl let out a gasp of pain. "You're dry as an old bone." Ramsay pulled his hand free and slapped her face. "I was told that you'd know how to please a man. Was that a lie?"

"N-no, my lord. I was t-trained." Ramsay rose, the firelight shining on his face. "Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I ... do you mean ... m'lord, I have no ... I ..."

"With your mouth," Lord Ramsay said

He aint got it. But whered it go? Rams is a flayer not a chopper, or is he both?

Quote

He will flay me inch by inch. When my fingers are gone he will take my hands. After my toes, my feet. But only when I beg for it, when the pain grows so bad that I plead for him to give me some relief

The man begged to be castrated, cant get sicker then that, right?

Quote

"Did Ramsay mention Theon Greyjoy?" Robb demanded. "Was he slain as well, or did he flee?"

Roose Bolton removed a ragged strip of leather from the pouch at his belt. "My son sent this with his letter."

Ser Wendel turned his fat face away. Robin Flint and Smalljon Umber exchanged a look, and the Greatjon snorted like a bull.

"Is that . . . skin?" said Robb.

"The skin from the little finger of Theon Greyjoy's left hand. My son is cruel, I confess it. And yet . . . what is a little skin, against the lives of two young princes? You were their mother, my lady. May I offer you this . . . small token of revenge?"

Part of Catelyn wanted to clutch the grisly trophy to her heart, but she made herself resist.

.... Was that his dick?

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Ramsay took his bits little by little until all of it is gone.

GRRM loves this idea of demasculanizing men.  He shows examples for Theon to find a cause larger than himself to support.  Look at the unsullied infantry.  Their humanity was taken away by the masters.  They won't get their twig and berries but they can help another accomplish her goal.  They can stop feeling sorry for themselves and do something useful.  They can help Daenerys win her war against slavery.  It is a noble cause.  The only war out there worth giving and taking life for.  Theon can continue to put number #1 first or he can choose to become part of something big. 

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7 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I believe he might as well flayed the thing.... which would make Theon unable to perform and maybe wish pain from sex with spearwife.

That sounds like something Ramsay would do although It probably would be like his fingers where Theon beg Ramsay to chop it off. How would a flayed penis even heal?

Edited by Is he a ham?

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I go back & forth with this. On one hand we have Theon saying he has no something in order to "ready" fArya with to which Ramsay replies to use his mouth. This implies Theon has no member. But he could have been saying I have no right & Ramsay's "with your mouth" wasn't as in, instead of your non-existent member but rather just another command, letting Theon know to stop arguing & do as he is told. Also, you don't really "ready" someone by sticking your penis in them, lending credence to the idea Theon wasn't going to say he has no penis. 

Earlier in the same exchange, though, Theon's member is the topic of conversation when Ramsay asks if it's "pressing against his laces" Why would Ramsay say that? Just to poke fun at Theon? Maybe. 

Then we have Theon saying "he has ONLY taken fingers, toes, and that other thing when he could have taken my tongue or peeled the skin off of my legs. This seems like an odd way for a man to think about losing his penis. Like, oh, thank goodness he only took my penis! He might have taken my tongue or the skin from my legs. I would think most men would rather have their skin peeled or tongue taken than have their penis removed but maybe I'm wrong. 

There is also the fact that it's never explicitly stated. Why did the George leave it so vague? Is it to show that it's traumatized Theon to the point he can't even think about it? Or is it because that isn't what happened? You would think as much as Ramsay likes to tease him we would have at least one instance where Ramsay says - Reek has no cock! 

Hopefully we will get an answer to this in tWoW but I have a serious question - if Ramsay took Theon's penis, how does he pee? Irl there would have to be a tube inserted. I wouldn't think people in world would have that medical knowledge, although there must be something known to them because there are other eunuchs. What would they even use for a tube? They don't have plastic. Not to mention the infection rate, if this is what they are doing we should have seen 1/2 the eunuchs die of infection after being gelded. 

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1 minute ago, M.Alhazred said:

Theon was left with a stub to pee from.

But this wouldn't work. His ureter would have healed closed with scar tissue growing over it, unless there was something there to keep it open. 

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I'm convinced that Theon is gelded.

17 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Then we have Theon saying "he has ONLY taken fingers, toes, and that other thing when he could have taken my tongue or peeled the skin off of my legs. This seems like an odd way for a man to think about losing his penis. Like, oh, thank goodness he only took my penis! He might have taken my tongue or the skin from my legs. I would think most men would rather have their skin peeled or tongue taken than have their penis removed but maybe I'm wrong.

I would read this quote as in "he only took my fingers, toes and cock" and stopped there, instead of going further.

We should also understand that torture does terrible things to a man's brain. Just as Ramsay was able to convince Theon that he was not a man, or an Ironborn, he could have made Theon believe that his penis was a useless attachment that he would be better without. As Hugorfonics says upthread, Ramsay didn't cut off members. He flayed them and inflicted so much pain that people ended begging the member to be removed.

16 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

But this wouldn't work. His ureter would have healed closed with scar tissue growing over it, unless there was something there to keep it open. 

In our world, some cultures that practiced castration placed a bamboo cane inside the ureter until it healed, to maintain the opening. There were other methods, none of them pleasant.

We know that Varys also lacks his penis, and there plenty of other eunuchs in the Free Cities. The technique should be well known known in Essos, and the Boltons could easily have developed an interest in such practices.

Edited by The hairy bear

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17 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I go back & forth with this.

...

There is also the fact that it's never explicitly stated. Why did the George leave it so vague?

 

After reading F&B and seeing how often a situation has multiple explanations for what may have happened (see Why did Criston Cole turn on Rhaenyra?), I've decided that GRRM likes to use a device called "Schrodinger's Storytelling", where all outcomes are possible until he definitively picks one to go with.

Sometimes he just leaves it unanswered, such as "Who told on Arianne?" or "Did Raynald Westerling die at the Red Wedding?" might turn out to be.

I guess we'll find out in the next book or two. Or we won't, if Theon dies before such a revelation.

I do agree with you that it seems strange that GRRM goes out of his way to include all of these hints that Theon was castrated, and then deliberately throws in a line or two that flat-out contradict that.

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I’m leaning toward no dick, but I believe there is a line when fArya is naked and Ramsay asks Theon does she make your cock press against your breeches. That was the one shred of evidence I always displayed when arguing for Theon and his cock.

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54 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

I’m leaning toward no dick, but I believe there is a line when fArya is naked and Ramsay asks Theon does she make your cock press against your breeches. That was the one shred of evidence I always displayed when arguing for Theon and his cock.

Yup.

ADwD, The Prince of Winterfell

“What do you think of her, Reek?” asked Lord Ramsay.
“She …” What answer does he want? What was it the girl had said, before the godswood? They all said that I was pretty. She was not pretty now. He could see a spiderweb of faint thin lines across her back where someone had whipped her. “… she is beautiful, so … so beautiful.”
Ramsay smiled his wet smile. “Does she make your cock hard, Reek? Is it straining against your laces? Would you like to fuck her first?” He laughed. “The Prince of Winterfell should have that right, as all lords did in days of old. The first night.

And right after that we get:

But you’re no lord, are you? Only Reek. Not even a man, truth be told.”

[…] and finally:

“Ramsay rose, the firelight shining on his face. “Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me.”
For a moment he did not understand. “I … do you mean … m’lord, I have no … I …”
“With your mouth,” Lord Ramsay said. “And be quick about it. If she’s not wet by the time I’m done disrobing, I will cut off that tongue of yours and nail it to the wall.”

conclusion: :dunno:

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