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Rhom

Joe Abercrombie: The Collected Works 3 (Includes A Little Hatred Spoiler discussion)

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Carrying over from our other gathered discussions.  The first spoiler thread for A Little Hatred was at 21 pages, so figured it was time to start over.  I will say, it was nice to see four Abercrombie threads in the first two pages.  (Spoiler for ALH, Re-read discussion, Non Spoiler for ALH, and General discussion 2. :lol: )

So anyways, here's a new thread about the legend himself.  Yes, he really did chase off some ruffians with a banister after already taking a shot to the head.  I presume we can accept spoilers up through A Little Hatred in this topic and for Shattered Sea.

Resources unavailable to those of us who discovered Joe back around the release of The Blade Itself that are now free for you to peruse include Wert's very own handy dandy link to a map of The First Law world.

And to address the perplexingly persistent question of "What order should I read Abercrombie?"  From Wert's link above, here's a timeline of all the stories set in the world of the The First Law:

566 (spring): A Beautiful Bastard
570 (summer): Made a Monster
573 (autumn): Small Kindnesses
574 (autumn): The Fool Jobs

575: (spring) The Blade Itself 

575 (summer): Skipping Town 

575-76: Before They Are Hanged

576 (spring): Hell

576 (summer): Two's Company 
576-77: Last Argument of Kings
579-80: Best Served Cold

580: Wrong Place, Wrong Time

584 (summer): Some Desperado 

584 (autumn): Yesterday, Near a Village Called Barden
584: The Heroes
587 (autumn): Three's a Crowd 

590 (summer): Freedom!

590: Red Country

592 (spring): Tough Times All Over

605: The Thread (Waterstones edition of ALH)

605: A Little Hatred
6??: The Trouble With Peace (due in 2020)
6??: The Beautiful Machine (due in 2021)

For reference... The bold titles are the main sequence novels and can (and should) be read in publication/chronological order.  All those non-bolded are short stories that are available in Sharp Ends.

There you have it.

Oh... and we like the Shattered Sea trilogy around here too.  Much debate on where they fit on the shelves at your local bookseller, but they generally are a lighter read than TFL.  They are completely unrelated to TFL.

Proceed

Edited by Rhom

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Last discussion in the ALH spoiler thread was Glokta.  Is he as incompetent as he would seem?  Everyone fears "Old Sticks" but do they have reason to?  He apparently thought the Inquisition in Valbeck could be trusted completely.  Hard to think he was playing an angle there when he also allowed his daughter to go in there without protection.  He genuinely seems to be clueless about a major insurrection being arranged by his own underlings just a few hours' ride from the capitol.  :dunno: 

And if he is that clueless, as mentioned... what kind of tool would Bayaz keep around?

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4 hours ago, Rhom said:

Carrying over from our other gathered discussions.  The first spoiler thread for A Little Hatred was at 21 pages, so figured it was time to start over.  I will say, it was nice to see four Abercrombie threads in the first two pages.  (Spoiler for ALH, Re-read discussion, Non Spoiler for ALH, and General discussion 2. :lol: )

So anyways, here's a new thread about the legend himself.  (Yes, he really did chase off some ruffians with a banister after already taking a shot to the head.)  I presume we can accept spoilers up through Sharp Ends in this topic and for Shattered Sea.

Resources unavailable to those of us who discovered Joe back around the release of The Blade Itself that are now free for you to peruse include Wert's very own handy dandy link to a map of The First Law world.

And to address the perplexingly persistent question of "What order should I read Abercrombie?"  From Wert's link above, here's a timeline of all the stories set in the world of the The First Law:

566 (spring): A Beautiful Bastard
570 (summer): Made a Monster
573 (autumn): Small Kindnesses
574 (autumn): The Fool Jobs

575: (spring) The Blade Itself 

575 (summer): Skipping Town 

576-77: Before They Are Hanged

576 (spring): Hell

576 (summer): Two's Company 
577: Last Argument of Kings
579-80: Best Served Cold

580: Wrong Place, Wrong Time

584 (summer): Some Desperado 

584 (autumn): Yesterday, Near a Village Called Barden
584: The Heroes
587 (autumn): Three's a Crowd 

590 (summer): Freedom!

590: Red Country

592 (spring): Tough Times All Over
605: A Little Hatred
6??: The Trouble With Peace (due in 2020)
6??: The Beautiful Machine (due in 2021)

For reference... The bold titles are the main sequence novels and can (and should) be read in publication/chronological order.  All those non-bolded are short stories that are available in Sharp Ends.

There you have it.

Oh... and we like the Shattered Sea trilogy around here too.  Much debate on where they fit on the shelves at your local bookseller, but they generally are a lighter read than TFL.  They are completely unrelated to TFL.

Proceed

Why must your first link be unavailable. I must read that post....

 

also, please add “The Thread” to the timeline. It takes place...i guess i would slot it just before ALH. Its very short and nothing of note happens but offers decent insight into the state of the Industrialised world of the first law

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Why must your first link be unavailable. I must read that post....

 

also, please add “The Thread” to the timeline. It takes place...i guess i would slot it just before ALH. Its very short and nothing of note happens but offers decent insight into the state of the Industrialised world of the first law

Sorry the story about the bannister is gone!  LOL

Is The Thread the short story that was unique to the Waterstones edition of the book?

Edit:  I have fixed the link above!  You can now read about Joe vs the Ruffians!

Edited by Rhom

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1 hour ago, Rhom said:

Sorry the story about the bannister is gone!  LOL

Is The Thread the short story that was unique to the Waterstones edition of the book?

Edit:  I have fixed the link above!  You can now read about Joe vs the Ruffians!

Much obliged!

for that i will provide a quick overview of The Thread (yes, the UK Waterstones short story)

Spoiler

Basically it follows the creation of one of Ardee’s dresses, from cotton picking by “free” slaves in the old Gurkish empire, to a merchant selling the cotton bales in Dagoska, to a Union factory churning out sub standard thread, to the old lady who stitches the dress, to Ardee’s maids receiving the inferior product. Like i say, adds little of substance but gives a distinct impression of the plight of the working class 

 

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I was rereading some scenes from The Heroes last night, as I didn't feel like starting a new book and still wanted to read something and I came across the scene where 

Spoiler

Beck has just been given his name and is an accepted member of Craw's gang. The way the other boy Drofd beggs to touch the Bloody Nine's sword

And the brilliance of the transformation struck me. ALH is less subtle about it, but I love the fact that you can clearly see the transition in Bloody Nine's public image happening in The Heroes. The shift in perception from being seen as the absolutely terrifying monster he is, by men who were there to see Logen commit his atrocities, to every little boy building him up as their heroic role model is a stunningly well-written shift.

Edited by Veltigar

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12 hours ago, Rhom said:

So anyways, here's a new thread about the legend himself.  Yes, he really did chase off some ruffians with a banister after already taking a shot to the head.  I presume we can accept spoilers up through Sharp Ends in this topic and for Shattered Sea.

So I'm having trouble here picturing this glorious incident, because I wasn't sure what a banister was, so I used the mighty internet and I all can find is it's basically a hand rail. So I'm confused as to why those people had a banister, and I'm also puzzled on how it broke off, assuming it's the banister I'm picturing, which is the type used on the street to guide pedestrian flow, or to hem in protesters. Because I really don't know why it would be a wooden one like you have on your home staircase to keep you from falling. (It's getting late, I should go to bed)

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7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

So I'm having trouble here picturing this glorious incident, because I wasn't sure what a banister was, so I used the mighty internet and I all can find is it's basically a hand rail. So I'm confused as to why those people had a banister, and I'm also puzzled on how it broke off, assuming it's the banister I'm picturing, which is the type used on the street to guide pedestrian flow, or to hem in protesters. Because I really don't know why it would be a wooden one like you have on your home staircase to keep you from falling. (It's getting late, I should go to bed)

In my head it is a bannister spindle.  A much more useful weapon.  @Joe Abercrombie please answer the great question of our age.

Northern duels would be much more interesting if each participant had to bring a discarded piece of household bric-a-brac as their weapon.

I'm re reading a little hatred, enjoying Rikke chapters most, closely followed by Savine.  Not looking forward to the industrial riots (well written as they were, they were pretty uncomfortable reading, even for the world of the first law).

Edited by BigFatCoward

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It would perhaps more properly have been called a timber baluster from a traditional victorian staircase.

Seems some of my older blog posts have vanished with this most recent web redesign. Our lives are written in sand, indeed...

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1 minute ago, Joe Abercrombie said:

It would perhaps more properly have been called a timber baluster from a traditional victorian staircase.

Seems some of my older blog posts have vanished with this most recent web redesign. Our lives are written in sand, indeed...

Read an interesting article once on how the length of time our written media survives has been constantly reducing their lifespan.  Cave paintings survive for tens of thousands of years.  Cuneiform tablets less long.  Papyrus disintegrates in hundreds.  And today I have no way of accessing the term papers I wrote 20 years ago that were saved on a 3’1/4” floppy disc.

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On 11/4/2019 at 10:15 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Much obliged!

for that i will provide a quick overview of The Thread (yes, the UK Waterstones short story)

  Hide contents

Basically it follows the creation of one of Ardee’s dresses, from cotton picking by “free” slaves in the old Gurkish empire, to a merchant selling the cotton bales in Dagoska, to a Union factory churning out sub standard thread, to the old lady who stitches the dress, to Ardee’s maids receiving the inferior product. Like i say, adds little of substance but gives a distinct impression of the plight of the working class 

  

*Savine's dresses (unless we got different versions)

 

Got around to reading a Little Hatred quite late, so have only just finished it. Loved it, even if some parts are heartrendingly tragic. But I guess that's the point, like picking at a scab. Excited to see where we go from here, so many places I'd love to see a bit more of, particularly the South. I want to see what state Ferro has sunk to, even someone that stubborn's sanity cant go thirty years of Demons whispering and not go off a cliff. Appreciate the notable uptick in female characters of note, we've come a long way from Queen Terez walking-plot-device.

 

Just for a laugh figured I'd rank the POV's

Spoiler

 

Rikke - She seems the most rounded, with potential to grow in a variety of different directions.

Savine - I need the vicious cynical internal monologue.

Orso - I probably relate more than is healthy.

Clover - Gives me Tunny/Craw vibes, with a whole lot more going on under the surface.

Vick - Impresses as a character, but maybe hasn't had too much to do yet. Interested to see if she forgets anything she learned in the camps.

Leo - Room to grow, but I can't quite get on board yet.

Broad - Hasn't really had much to do yet. This is going to end very badly, and I can't wait.

 

Not really spoilers, but just in case.

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My ranking would be:

Orso > Savine > Rikke > Vick > Leo > Broad > Clover

On 11/4/2019 at 4:57 PM, Rhom said:

576-77: Before They Are Hanged

---

577: Last Argument of Kings

This is one year off. BTAH goes from Autumn 575 to Spring 576, and LAOK is Summer 576 to Winter 577.

And I'd place A Little Hatred in 604, since Joe said it was 14 years after Red Country, but I'm less convinced about that.

Edited by The hairy bear

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10 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

*Savine's dresses (unless we got different versions)

 

Got around to reading a Little Hatred quite late, so have only just finished it. Loved it, even if some parts are heartrendingly tragic. But I guess that's the point, like picking at a scab. Excited to see where we go from here, so many places I'd love to see a bit more of, particularly the South. I want to see what state Ferro has sunk to, even someone that stubborn's sanity cant go thirty years of Demons whispering and not go off a cliff. Appreciate the notable uptick in female characters of note, we've come a long way from Queen Terez walking-plot-device.

 

Just for a laugh figured I'd rank the POV's

  Hide contents

 

Rikke - She seems the most rounded, with potential to grow in a variety of different directions.

Savine - I need the vicious cynical internal monologue.

Orso - I probably relate more than is healthy.

Clover - Gives me Tunny/Craw vibes, with a whole lot more going on under the surface.

Vick - Impresses as a character, but maybe hasn't had too much to do yet. Interested to see if she forgets anything she learned in the camps.

Leo - Room to grow, but I can't quite get on board yet.

Broad - Hasn't really had much to do yet. This is going to end very badly, and I can't wait.

 

Not really spoilers, but just in case.

Oops, yes you’re right its Savine, i just wasnt paying much mind to what i wrote.

Ranking povs...tricky, especially choosing a favourite. I suspect top spot is my most changeable position right now.

Savine>Rikke>Orso>Clover>Leo>Vick>>>Broad

Edited by HelenaExMachina

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So much for my “Age of Spoilers”, subtitle for the next thread. But gotta give it to @Rhom. Nailed the supporting material for creating a new thread. 

I haven’t read A Little Hatred since it first came out. Think it’s about time for a reread. I’m going to pace myself this time around, unlike the initial mad dash read. 

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7 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

So much for my “Age of Spoilers”, subtitle for the next thread. But gotta give it to @Rhom. Nailed the supporting material for creating a new thread. 

I haven’t read A Little Hatred since it first came out. Think it’s about time for a reread. I’m going to pace myself this time around, unlike the initial mad dash read. 

I could edit the topic title to include it! :lol: 

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Joe's latest progress report suggests the gap in publishing has had no effect on sales. If anything they've improved.

Very surprised to see audiobook sales were stronger than hardback or ebook sales in week 1 in UK. Just shows how rapid that sector is growing and how good Steven Pacey is.

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I don't know if anyone caught this, but in Half a King there is a bit where one of the characters talks about the constellations.

She names one of the constellations as "Stranger Come Knocking",  The [admittedly a little crackpot] signifigance of this to A Little Hatred is:

Spoiler

In the same passage she mentions the "Bald Weaver", which may fit with some of the theories about who the Weaver is.

/silly speculation

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1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I don't know if anyone caught this, but in Half a King there is a bit where one of the characters talks about the constellations.

She names one of the constellations as "Stranger Come Knocking",  The [admittedly a little crackpot] signifigance of this to A Little Hatred is:

  Reveal hidden contents

In the same passage she mentions the "Bald Weaver", which may fit with some of the theories about who the Weaver is.

/silly speculation

I haven't read that book since its release. What theory could it confirm? Bayaz, or a different character?

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