Joe Abercrombie: The Collected Works 3 (Includes A Little Hatred Spoiler discussion)

[Rhom]

58 minutes ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Bayaz wanted Jezel on the throne because he wanted a new start. Someone with no allegiances. Jezel was a nobody. He wasn't a rapist/fop like Ladlisar and generally was a blank slate. All people knew about him was the fact he won the contest, did some heroic things in the west, and solved a rebellion peacefully.  

And that he had a kingly looking scar!

[Rhom]

Also, somehow amongst all the recent societal upheaval; it has become a thing to ask white authors what they were paid.

Joe shared his initial contract.  I thought it was interesting.  Follow it over to Twitter to see his follow Up

 

[Fez]

2 hours ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Bayaz wanted Jezel on the throne because he wanted a new start. Someone with no allegiances. Jezel was a nobody. He wasn't a rapist/fop like Ladlisar and generally was a blank slate. All people knew about him was the fact he won the contest, did some heroic things in the west, and solved a rebellion peacefully.  

Well sure. But why not have Raynault be the new start? He seemed blankly liked whenever he was mentioned, and it would've been a lot less effort to make him popular throughout the Union. Killing him off felt like a plot without a purpose. If there'd been some hint that Raynault was likely to defy Bayaz it would've made more sense. But as is, it just felt off.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

9 minutes ago, Fez said:

Well sure. But why not have Raynault be the new start? He seemed blankly liked whenever he was mentioned, and it would've been a lot less effort to make him popular throughout the Union. Killing him off felt like a plot without a purpose. If there'd been some hint that Raynault was likely to defy Bayaz it would've made more sense. But as is, it just felt off.

He had connections to the old dynasty though, whereas Jezel did not.  Jezel meant that Bayaz could be in control without the Closed Council sticking their ore in.  Raynault was not under Bayaz control or influence, plus he did not have a kingly scar or a reputation that girls would swoon over. 

[Veltigar]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Also, somehow amongst all the recent societal upheaval; it has become a thing to ask white authors what they were paid.

Joe shared his initial contract.  I thought it was interesting.  Follow it over to Twitter to see his follow Up

 

`£10,000? Holy fuck that is nothing  I hope that's just the advance right and he got a commission per book sold?

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

`£10,000? Holy fuck that is nothing  I hope that's just the advance right and he got a commission per book sold?

Yes, the purpose of the hashtag is to discuss advances against royalties. So once he earned out his advance, he'd get a percentage of the sales beyond that

 

[Veltigar]

12 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yes, the purpose of the hashtag is to discuss advances against royalties. So once he earned out his advance, he'd get a percentage of the sales beyond that

 

Okay thanks for clarifying that Ran  

[Rhom]

Yeah, there’s more of the discussion in further tweets

[Fez]

3 hours ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

He had connections to the old dynasty though, whereas Jezel did not.  Jezel meant that Bayaz could be in control without the Closed Council sticking their ore in.  Raynault was not under Bayaz control or influence, plus he did not have a kingly scar or a reputation that girls would swoon over. 

But Bayaz already controlled the old dynasty, and people liked Raynault well enough; everyone said he was better suited than his brother to be king. Bayaz could've done the same stuff to make Raynault super popular like he did with Jezel (and probably not have to do nearly as much, since Raynault started from a higher baseline); and not have to waste time bribing and demanding the Open Council votes since there wouldn't need to be a vote. 

The Jezel stuff worked out for Bayaz; I just still don't see what the point was though. 

[HexMachina]

With Jezal on the throne, doesn’t that give Bayaz leverage if Jezal gets too uppity (as Jezal tries to at the end)? “Sorry everyone, looks like he was a fraud all along, bring out the guillotines.” I always assumed that was at least part of it anyway. 

I also think that Bayaz needed to (or wanted to?) wrongfoot the Closed Council. Raynault and Ladisla, having grown up as Princes, would have been very much in the Closed Council’s plans. By putting his own choice on the throne he throws a curveball that none of them have prepared for and puts Bayaz firmly in charge

 

[Gaston de Foix]

13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

With Jezal on the throne, doesn’t that give Bayaz leverage if Jezal gets too uppity (as Jezal tries to at the end)? “Sorry everyone, looks like he was a fraud all along, bring out the guillotines.” I always assumed that was at least part of it anyway. 

I also think that Bayaz needed to (or wanted to?) wrongfoot the Closed Council. Raynault and Ladisla, having grown up as Princes, would have been very much in the Closed Council’s plans. By putting his own choice on the throne he throws a curveball that none of them have prepared for and puts Bayaz firmly in charge

 

I also think this is Bayaz's signature move: once in a while he murders the old dynasty and implants his own puppet.  This way nobody entrenches power beyond a certain point and he can exploit the instability to reshape things.  

[Fez]

Finished my re-read of Best Served Cold. I think its even better than the trilogy. Strangely, I remembered even less of what happened in the book than I did of the trilogy; even though I had read it more recently. I must not have been paying much attention my first time through.

I did feel it went a little overboard with how many minor characters from the trilogy show up though, and how many of them know each other. It makes the world feel a little small when the same faces keep popping up all the time. But that's a relatively small complaint.

[SeanF]

On 6/12/2020 at 4:21 PM, Fez said:

Finished my re-read of Best Served Cold. I think its even better than the trilogy. Strangely, I remembered even less of what happened in the book than I did of the trilogy; even though I had read it more recently. I must not have been paying much attention my first time through.

I did feel it went a little overboard with how many minor characters from the trilogy show up though, and how many of them know each other. It makes the world feel a little small when the same faces keep popping up all the time. But that's a relatively small complaint.

Of them all, it's the one I like the most.  Cosca, and Morveer, the ethical poisoner, just make me die laughing.

[Jaxom 1974]

On 6/12/2020 at 10:21 AM, Fez said:

Finished my re-read of Best Served Cold. I think its even better than the trilogy. Strangely, I remembered even less of what happened in the book than I did of the trilogy; even though I had read it more recently. I must not have been paying much attention my first time through.

 

I did a re-listen recently, where I just had the audiobook.  I remembered the book so very differently from when I read it versus actually hearing it.  It was quite jarring, bit resulted in a whole new level of appreciation for the prose.

 

Also, listening through, I was struck how fantastic the novel would have been as a show on HBO or something similar.  Not as an ongoing, but something limited to 10 to 12 episodes at most.

[HexMachina]

48 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I did a re-listen recently, where I just had the audiobook.  I remembered the book so very differently from when I read it versus actually hearing it.  It was quite jarring, bit resulted in a whole new level of appreciation for the prose.

 

Also, listening through, I was struck how fantastic the novel would have been as a show on HBO or something similar.  Not as an ongoing, but something limited to 10 to 12 episodes at most.

The audiobook of BSC is one of my favourites and actually convinced me to give audiobooks more of a try.

Agree it would make a good limited series. I think 6-8 episodes would be sufficient though, the book isn’t too long and the plot is pretty straightforward. Would take some balancing to ensure it didn’t get dragged on too long but still did the content justice.

I would envision something similar to American Gods S1 for the flashback sections, using them as a Best Served Cold open (I’m so sorry for that...) to each episode, and tying them in some way to the content of the episode - either themeatically or in terms of something that is revealed for the plot.

Of course, still holding out a vain hope for The First Law tv series...

[Lady Winter Rose]

........................................................................

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The audiobook of BSC is one of my favourites and actually convinced me to give audiobooks more of a try.

Agree it would make a good limited series. I think 6-8 episodes would be sufficient though, the book isn’t too long and the plot is pretty straightforward. Would take some balancing to ensure it didn’t get dragged on too long but still did the content justice.

I would envision something similar to American Gods S1 for the flashback sections, using them as a Best Served Cold open (I’m so sorry for that...) to each episode, and tying them in some way to the content of the episode - either themeatically or in terms of something that is revealed for the plot.

Of course, still holding out a vain hope for The First Law tv series...

I'd love to see Cosca interviewing the musicians/murderers on screen.

[Fez]

And now I've finished my re-read of The Heroes. Another book it turns out I didn't remember much of; though I was in college when I read it the first time, and I suspected there was some skimming involved. It was good, felt like a noticeable step up in writing quality, but I liked Best Served Cold more. I think I was still just a bit tired of the North. Also, even though Abercrombie writes fights well, they aren't my favorite aspect of the books; and there's any awful lot of fights.

On the plus side, there's some really clever bits like Tunny's whole storyline of not much happening; and I like the gimmicky chapters where every few paragraphs the POV character is killed and replaced by their killer. Also, even thougj I liked BSC more, I think Heroes did a better job of bringing back minor characters from earlier books without making the world seem too small.

Next up, Red Country. And this one I do remember pretty well. I seem to recall that the old west-style setting didn't entirely work; ill be curious to see if my opinions changed.

[Macklunkey]

I've been listening to Joe's books on audiobook. I received a free subscription with a phone upgrade. I would thoroughly recommend the experience! The voiceover guy does an amazing job. Especially when you consider how many characters there are.

The Heroes in particular is excellent!

[Nicomo Cosca]

https://joeabercrombie.com/progress-report-june-20/

There's this juicy tease for book 3:

"Felt that I had to rework a few things for a more nuanced view in response to recent events – there’s a lot of stuff about popular revolt, demonstration and riot, even (I kid you not) the toppling of statues which was written a couple of years ago but now looks like almost too on-the-nose commentary about the present moment."

I feel (and hope) that this refers to Bayaz's statue that was mentioned at the start of The Blade Itself. Super excited for book 2 either way.