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Alyn Oakenfist

Dany's three betrayals

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14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

But then, what would be it be called "treason for"? Neither Viserys nor Rhaego betrayed anyone.

I think they are Dany's treasons against Drogo/Viserys/Rhaego. 

Blood = Dany causes a situation where Drogo is wounded, then dies from what seems to be a blood infection. 
Gold = Dany lets Viserys be killed rather than pushing Drogo to pay his debt. 
Love = Dany holds the egg against her womb and essentially wishes for Rhaego to be a dragon. 

22 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I've always thought that the three triads have to be interpreted together, and refer to three different events.

The whole riddle seems to be put in the context of Dany being Mother of Dragons. 
So I suspect that the 3 aspects of each triad fit the 3 Heads, something like this.  

Sacrifice Head   Fire Mount Treason
Drogo Drogon   Life Bed Blood
Viserys Viserion   Death Dread Gold
Rhaego Rhaegal   Love Love Love

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22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

While I don't disagree that Jorah may be the 2nd betrayal I do question your beliefs that the betrayals must result in executions. What makes you think that? 

The prophecy of the Undying Ones as well as the fate of those who commits treason.  Mirri, Eddard, Jon Snow, all who betrayed the ruler dies.  The traitors are given to the flames and it pays for a needed miracle.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

What prophecy says they will get executed? 

I certainly hope you aren't holding your breath for this. There is essentially no evidence that any of this will happen & is much more likely Jon will kill Daenerys. 

I think you are wrong in your interpretation.  That might be your wish but it is not likely to happen. 

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1 hour ago, Allardyce said:

The prophecy of the Undying Ones as well as the fate of those who commits treasonMirri, Eddard, Jon Snow, all who betrayed the ruler dies.  The traitors are given to the flames and it pays for a needed miracle.

I'm still not understanding. I don't recall the Undying prophecy saying anything about execution. Also Mirri really betrayed Dany, not the ruler, Drogo. Even if that was considered betraying the ruler, neither Edd nor Jon were given to flames & Jon didn't betray the ruler either. He was the ruler. So he betrayed himself? 

1 hour ago, Allardyce said:

think you are wrong in your interpretation.  That might be your wish but it is not likely to happen

I could definitely be wrong & in fact I hope I am. Truth be told I hope we are both wrong. There are other possible outcomes than Dany kills Jon or Jon kills Dany

But, likewise, it might be your wish for Dany to kill Jon but it's not likely to happen. 

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5 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

I think they are Dany's treasons against Drogo/Viserys/Rhaego. 

Blood = Dany causes a situation where Drogo is wounded, then dies from what seems to be a blood infection. 
Gold = Dany lets Viserys be killed rather than pushing Drogo to pay his debt. 
Love = Dany holds the egg against her womb and essentially wishes for Rhaego to be a dragon. 

The whole riddle seems to be put in the context of Dany being Mother of Dragons. 
So I suspect that the 3 aspects of each triad fit the 3 Heads, something like this.  

 

Sacrifice Head   Fire Mount Treason
Drogo Drogon   Life Bed Blood
Viserys Viserion   Death Dread Gold
Rhaego Rhaegal   Love Love Love

This makes alot of sense. How do the mounts fit in tho? Like how is Drogo/ Drogon the mount to life etc? 

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47 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

This makes alot of sense. How do the mounts fit in tho? Like how is Drogo/ Drogon the mount to life etc? 

Drogo/Drogon would be the Mount to Bed. As in having sex. 
Viserys/Viserion would be the Mount to Dread. As in fearing his abuse.

The Fire for Life might be referring to trying to have Drogo resurrected.
The Fire for Death may have something to do with melting gold to kill Viserys. 
Though it's hard to say for sure. 

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Dany wonders who tried to kill her and a wolf answers, foreshadowing Jon:
“She had made Hizdahr her king, taken him into her bed, opened the fighting pits for him, he had no reason to want her dead. Yet who else could it have been? Reznak, her perfumed seneschal? The Yunkai’i? The Sons of the Harpy? Off in the distance, a wolf howled.”

You could also add sweetness (blue rose) as negative, but this ^ seals it IMO. 

 

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14 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well someone, Mirri, already fucked her up. So that's why I think she was the betrayal for blood. Now we know that there will be a second dance of dragons. One option would be Euron v Dany. However I personally don't think that will be the case, I think Euron will have something more akin to a kraken. The Dragonhorn subplot only serves I think to bring the Dragonhorn into Dany's possession to be stolen in the second betrayal, the one for gold (Viserion has golden scales). So I think someone, either Tyrion or Varys will betray her giving the horn to Faegon, who will use it to tame Viserion. As for the last I think it will be Jon killing her, because of his love for her, in order to obtain Lightbringer.

The HOTU serves the same function in the story as a Greek/Roman Oracle. The people in these stories misinterpret them (with the exception of the wooden wall of Athens). Whoever she guesses is probably going to be incorrect and so I rule out Mirri. Plus, if Cersei is stumbling around in the dark about her prophecy, Dany is too. 

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When Jon kills (likely executes) Dany it will not be a betrayal or treason, it will be justice. It's going to result in his sword taking flame, a flaming sword symbolically represents justice.

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7 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

Drogo/Drogon would be the Mount to Bed. As in having sex. 
Viserys/Viserion would be the Mount to Dread. As in fearing his abuse.

The Fire for Life might be referring to trying to have Drogo resurrected.
The Fire for Death may have something to do with melting gold to kill Viserys. 
Though it's hard to say for sure. 

Ahh I see. I always equate the mount to her actually riding something. Anyway nice, I like it. 

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15 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

I think they are Dany's treasons against Drogo/Viserys/Rhaego.

I get it now. According to your view, Dany is not the betrayed but the betrayer. I don't think I had never heard that interpretation before.

The prophecy says "three treasons will you know", so although it would be a twisted way to say it, it's certainly possible.

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6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Ahh I see. I always equate the mount to her actually riding something. Anyway nice, I like it. 

GRRM may intend it to be read as a double entendre, so both interpretations might be correct. 

6 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

The prophecy says "three treasons will you know", so although it would be a twisted way to say it, it's certainly possible.

I get the impression that its super convoluted because MMD was trying to mess with Dany's mind. 

Telling her the truth of her "crimes" in a way that would leave her a paranoid mess.

Then if she ever figured it out, she might have even more regrets and mistakes to pile upon that. 

Basically MMD screwing with Dany from beyond the grave. ;)  

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The  treason for blood Daenerys will know will be committed by Illyrio, who will betray her for the blood of the Blackfyre. The treason for gold Daenerys will know will be committed by Tyrion, who will betray her for all the gold of Casterly Rock. The treason for love Daenerys will know will be committed by Aegon, who will betray her for love of Arianne. 

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On 11/4/2019 at 5:45 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So what are the three betrayals? My personal theory is that the one for blood was Mirri, the one for gold will be Faegon claiming Viserion (cause Viserion has gold in his colors and will likely be helped by Varys dooing some turn-cloaking) and the third will be Jon Snow killing her to get Lightbringer. What are your theories?

Treason leads to funeral leads to execution.

Mirri commits treason for blood, resulting in Drogo's funeral, and ended with her execution.

Tyrion commits treason for the Lannisters (gold), resulting in the death of an ally (Jorah or Barristan), and ends with Tyrion getting roasted.

Jon commits treason to keep the Starks in power, resulting in the death of a loved one (Daario or Missandei), and ends with Jon getting roasted.

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On 11/5/2019 at 3:12 PM, Narsil4 said:

I think they are Dany's treasons against Drogo/Viserys/Rhaego. 

Blood = Dany causes a situation where Drogo is wounded, then dies from what seems to be a blood infection. 
Gold = Dany lets Viserys be killed rather than pushing Drogo to pay his debt. 
Love = Dany holds the egg against her womb and essentially wishes for Rhaego to be a dragon. 

The whole riddle seems to be put in the context of Dany being Mother of Dragons. 
So I suspect that the 3 aspects of each triad fit the 3 Heads, something like this.  

 

Sacrifice Head   Fire Mount Treason
Drogo Drogon   Life Bed Blood
Viserys Viserion   Death Dread Gold
Rhaego Rhaegal   Love Love Love

This is a very good alternative theory.  As good as any I've read.

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11 hours ago, Tai Pan said:

Treason leads to funeral leads to execution.

Mirri commits treason for blood, resulting in Drogo's funeral, and ended with her execution.

Tyrion commits treason for the Lannisters (gold), resulting in the death of an ally (Jorah or Barristan), and ends with Tyrion getting roasted.

Jon commits treason to keep the Starks in power, resulting in the death of a loved one (Daario or Missandei), and ends with Jon getting roasted.

Gold could point to the Lannisters.  It can also mean actual gold because the Lannisters have the most of it.  Tyrion is the most likely perp.  Jon will be the third but it will not be to keep the Starks in power.  The north will be devastated by the Others and the Starks are not going to be in power.  His treason will have something to do with saving Arya from death.  Jon will be executed by fire, which is how Dany punishes traitors.  Maybe Jon will just die and turn to ashes or he survives the flames and she forgives him.

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2 hours ago, Annalee said:

Gold could point to the Lannisters.  It can also mean actual gold because the Lannisters have the most of it.  Tyrion is the most likely perp.  Jon will be the third but it will not be to keep the Starks in power.  The north will be devastated by the Others and the Starks are not going to be in power.  His treason will have something to do with saving Arya from death.  Jon will be executed by fire, which is how Dany punishes traitors.  Maybe Jon will just die and turn to ashes or he survives the flames and she forgives him.

I don't think Jon will die but him surviving the flames is an interesting theory. It could also do something to prove his parentage. It could maybe fit into the "Waking a dragon from stone" prophecy Mel goes on about. Jon wouldn't be literally stone but if he survives the murder attempt he may come back "stoneish" Idk just spitballing here. 

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But does gold mean gold as in gold or is a metaphor for something else? 

I'm personally not sure that these treasons have come to pass yet.

Jorah didn't take gold from Varys to inform on Dany. He informed on her because he wanted a pardon so that he could go home. And he stopped doing that and he would have continued to be at her side, creepy and all, if Barristan hadn't blown him out of the water.

And my interpretation of what MMD did was not directed directly at Dany per se, but at Rhaego instead, because she perceived him as a threat with the stallion who mounts the world prophecy. 

"The Stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."

And that's exactly what Dany saw in the vision at the House of the Undying.

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

I don't have all that much to say about the treason for gold. I think that gold can be a number of things. Tyrion and Casterly Rock, the Lannisters and their golden hair, the Golden Company. I think the sky's the limit on this one.

Treason for blood. I think that will be Daario. Daario has Valyrian blood and the comments on his eye color is, I think, going to be important. I think he is the Blackfyre descendant from the female line. 

Treason for love. I am actually leaning toward Barristan Selmy on this one and him perhaps being faced with making a difficult choice between Rhaegar's son and Rhaegar's sister.

Also, the wishful thinking about Jon dying some fiery death and being eaten by a dragon or whatever is beyond far fetched.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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