Dany's three betrayals

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Also, the wishful thinking about Jon dying some fiery death and being eaten by a dragon or whatever is beyond far fetched.

I agree 100% but do think it could add something to they story for him to survive dragon flames. Although the "pretend Jon is dead" thing has already been done so I don't tsee this happening. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

14 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I agree 100% but do think it could add something to they story for him to survive dragon flames. Although the "pretend Jon is dead" thing has already been done so I don't tsee this happening. 

I think there's a massive foreshadowing that he will come out of the flames all the way back in AGoT, but I don't want to derail the thread.

[Aldarion]

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I don't think Jon will die but him surviving the flames is an interesting theory. It could also do something to prove his parentage. It could maybe fit into the "Waking a dragon from stone" prophecy Mel goes on about. Jon wouldn't be literally stone but if he survives the murder attempt he may come back "stoneish" Idk just spitballing here. 

Even if he does survive the flames, it will do absolutely nothing to prove his parentage. Targaryens are not fireproof, not even Daenerys is. That little stunt was one-time-use-only.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 minute ago, Aldarion said:

Even if he does survive the flames, it will do absolutely nothing to prove his parentage. Targaryens are not fireproof, not even Daenerys is. That little stunt was one-time-use-only.

Yeah I know they aren't fireproof but no other person that we are aware of has survived being burned alive. I think it would do a lot to convince Daenerys that Jon is a Targ if he survives flames just like she did. 

[Greywater-Watch]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 1:44 AM, chrisdaw said:

The word used is treasons rather than betrayals.

If we assume that GRRM chose the word treason on purpose (and not "betrayal"), it is worth checking its meaning:

In Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, treason is specifically limited to levying war against the US, or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

In that case, the actions ("betrayals") by Mirri Maz Duur or Jora wouldn't count.

The Harpy or Brown Ben Plumm's action would count however.

[Greywater-Watch]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 9:12 PM, Narsil4 said:

I think they are Dany's treasons against Drogo/Viserys/Rhaego. 

Blood = Dany causes a situation where Drogo is wounded, then dies from what seems to be a blood infection. 
Gold = Dany lets Viserys be killed rather than pushing Drogo to pay his debt. 
Love = Dany holds the egg against her womb and essentially wishes for Rhaego to be a dragon. 

The whole riddle seems to be put in the context of Dany being Mother of Dragons. 
So I suspect that the 3 aspects of each triad fit the 3 Heads, something like this.  

 

Sacrifice	Head		Fire	Mount	Treason
Drogo	Drogon		Life	Bed	Blood
Viserys	Viserion		Death	Dread	Gold
Rhaego	Rhaegal		Love	Love	Love

 

The correct wording in the House of the Undying is:  

a) "three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...

b) three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...

c) three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love..."

What makes me wonder whether truly the 3 x 3 prophecies can be put in a matrix like you suggested, are the following thoughts:

1. While fires and mounts are connected with "must" (which means it it possible that these parts have already become true),

the treasons are introduced with the word "will", which in my opinion means that none of the treasons is known to Daenerys at that moment yet. By the way, for me that excludes Mirri Mazuur. So we have at least 1x3 and 2x3 events, where only the latter could form up a matrix.

2. The Mounts I can think of are Silver (to love), Drogo (to bed), Drogon (to dread). According to your matrix, riding Drogon would be connected with "to bed". And Daenerys would have to ride Viserion and Rhaegal (if I understand your matrix correctly), which goes against what we have learned from the Valyrians, i.e. no one could ride two dragons.

What troubles me is that the third fire is to love, while the other two fires are for life/death.

In the treason line it is always "for",

and in the  Mounts line it is always "to".

 

[Narsil4]

2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

1. While fires and mounts are connected with "must" (which means it it possible that these parts have already become true),

I would agree. 

2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

the treasons are introduced with the word "will", which in my opinion means that none of the treasons is known to Daenerys at that moment yet.

I've come to read it as saying she will later come to realize her past crimes. 

2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

By the way, for me that excludes Mirri Mazuur.

Yea, MMD may not even be guilty of anything.

2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

And Daenerys would have to ride Viserion and Rhaegal (if I understand your matrix correctly)

I believe it's more symbolic than literal. 

It could mean that she relied on Viserys while she dreaded his abuse.

Rhaego seems to end up connected to riding and mounts through lines like this. 

Quote

In your womb rides the stallion who mounts the world.

The difference between the 2 To Loves and the 1 For Love may be that the first 2 are referring directly to her loving Rhaego while the 3rd may be her committing treason against Rhaego for her love of home. 

Quote

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.

 

[Greywater-Watch]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 4:15 AM, Narsil4 said:

The Fire for Life might be referring to trying to have Drogo resurrected.
The Fire for Death may have something to do with melting gold to kill Viserys. 
Though it's hard to say for sure.

It occurs to me that one of the three fires Dany has to light could be the one in the House of the Undying. Soon after the prophecies she (or better Drogon) burns the heart and thus the tower. I would assume that this would then account for the "fire for death".

[Narsil4]

4 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

It occurs to me that one of the three fires Dany has to light could be the one in the House of the Undying.

The whole thing seems to made in the context of her being mother of dragons.

Quote

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .
. . . three heads has the dragon . . . 
. . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . 
. . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . 
. . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . 
. . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

So I see it more as a dragon hatching recipe than a prophecy.

4 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Soon after the prophecies she (or better Drogon) burns the heart and thus the tower.

That scene may be symbolic of the love between Dany and Drogo. 

Quote

Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt

Quote

Mance nodded. "Good. You'll go with Jarl and Styr on the morrow, then. Both of you. Far be it from me to separate two hearts that beat as one."

Which seems to have the implication that Drogo's heart was consumed in dragon flame. 

5 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

I would assume that this would then account for the "fire for death".

I suspect lines like this hint at the identities of the 3 Dragon Heads. 

Quote

"There are ghosts everywhere," Ser Jorah said softly. "We carry them with us wherever we go."
Yes, she thought. Viserys, Khal Drogo, my son Rhaego, they are with me always.

With the 'Fire for Death" seemingly fitting Viserys end most closely. 

[BlackLightning]

I always thought that the "betrayal for love" thing had to do with Daenerys herself.

I always thought that Daenerys was going to fall in love with Jon. And not just fall but fall hard. Since this will be her first time truly in love, she'll act like a stupid lovesick person, ignore her advisors so she can follow Jon to the ends of the earth and give him EVERYTHING she has and is. Jon, being cold now that he will become a zombie, won't/can't reciprocate those feelings which will cause Dany unbelievable heartache and grief (further clouding her judgment). But Dany being Dany will only double down and give Jon even more.

This would sabotage her whole war effort, cause many of her followers to die, betray or abandon her before resulting in her untimely death. That's why it never struck me as a surprise that the series has a 98% chance of ending with Jon killing Daenerys by literally and figuratively in the heart.

The final betrayal could be looked at as Jon betraying Dany and killing her out of love/mercy for either her, Westeros or all the above. But really, I think the final betrayal is Dany betraying herself by allowing herself to fall in love with someone like Jon Snow during the Long Night, aka perhaps the worst possible time to fall in love.

[Shi Qiang]

On 11/4/2019 at 8:54 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

While I don't disagree that Jorah may be the 2nd betrayal I do question your beliefs that the betrayals must result in executions. What makes you think that? 

What prophecy says they will get executed? 

I certainly hope you aren't holding your breath for this. There is essentially no evidence that any of this will happen & is much more likely Jon will kill Daenerys. 

The visions in the House of the Undying ties the lies, betrayals, rides, and executions together.  I look forward to the traitors getting slow roasted.