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Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

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8 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Sansa will continue to do the same until she's with someone she can genuinely trust, and that can only be her family at this point

Is this a not so subtle argument for Jonsa? 

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4 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

If you kill three or more ppl you are a serial killer

@purrl1 yeah, I'm wrong here! Already corrected myself. used the term "serial killer" the wrong way.

I just meant a person, who kills several ppl (when I was referring to Arya). But a serial killer is of course something very specific and she is not that. My english isn't that great.

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21 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Even though I am highly critical of their dynamic and Sandor Clegane as a character I can see why people see the appeal of it. They have a Beauty and the Beast imagery (though I would argue Sandor is a foil of the Beast rather being the TRUE Beast to Sansa's Beauty), Sandor plays an important role in the character development of Sansa, and lastly, but most importantly, to the extent Sansa romanticizes him it's very easy to assume she has romantic feelings for him.

The thing with Sansa though is that you shouldn't take her thoughts and words at face value. You should read between the lines. She is an unreliable narrator after all. If you think about it her thoughts of Sandor is pretty similar of what she thinks of Joffrey in AGOT. She's convincing herself that he's a good guy to keep herself sane. She does the same towards Dontos, the Tyrells, and Littlefinger. 

Sansa will continue to do the same until she's with someone she can genuinely trust, and that can only be her family at this point. 

The unreliable narrator argument opens a few cans of worms, and that goes for any of the POVs. It’s the reason why there’s a theory that Ned isn’t Robb’s father.

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4 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

If you kill three or more ppl you are a serial killer

No that makes you a mass murderer.Google that when you're researching "troll".

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12 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Sandor plays an important role in the character development of Sansa, and lastly, but most importantly, to the extent Sansa romanticizes him it's very easy to assume she has romantic feelings for him.

The thing with Sansa though is that you shouldn't take her thoughts and words at face value. You should read between the lines. She is an unreliable narrator after all. If you think about it her thoughts of Sandor is pretty similar of what she thinks of Joffrey in AGOT. She's convincing herself that he's a good guy to keep herself sane. She does the same towards Dontos, the Tyrells, and Littlefinger. 

Does she now?

So, she realizes he won't hurt her, but also decides not to go with him, because a part of her senses that Sandor at the time is not in much of any state to help her.

Even while she invents the Unkiss, she still describes it as a "cruel" kiss (though with double entendre). Picturing him in bed with her is an involuntarily image. It's not Sandor she aims to picture, but it just happens. She doesn't tell herself that Sandor is gallant or charming. She mistakes Brune for Sandor when he comes to her aid with the singer at LF's tower, but again this is an involuntarily response from her. That makes it very different imo from her fantasy of Joffrey or Loras. She doesn't negate Sandor's problematic behaviour. She debates with him. And her fantasy or imagining him with her is not something she wills or seeks out. The latter is a sign not of infatuation, but a more mature way of falling in love. And instead of actively fantasising Sandor as someone who saves her, she considers how he makes her more brave. She doesn't compare him to knights of tales either. Sandor is Sandor.

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35 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Is this a not so subtle argument for Jonsa? 

I am not gonna deny - I ship Jon and Sansa together, but in all honesty I can see her pull this behavior even after she meets with Jon. Especially with Jon, because if she does develop feelings, and I believe she will, Sansa will not face her emotions head on. She will bury it deep and refuse to acknowledge it, because if she does it will be too painful for her. Instead her feelings will manifest in the form of her comparing Jon to the heroes she loves in her songs: Aemon the Dragon Knight, Florian the Fool and Ryam Redwyne.

The person that would help Sansa face her issues will only be Arya. After all Sansa started suppressing memories because of the Trident incident. This is only a theory of mine and possible not true, but I think Sansa started suppressing memories because deep down she feels guilt towards Arya and Mycah and it's only after Arya forgives her that Sansa will learn to forgive herself and remember everything again. 

PS: This is the second biggest reason why I cannot stomach the thought of Sandor and Sansa together. Because as it is Sandor is the physical representation of the tension between Sansa and Arya. Even if he has his redemption Arya would never forget or forgive him for what he did to Mycah - and rightfully so. The thought of Sansa with Sandor would anger her - and, again, rightfully so. I can't and will not accept Sansan because Sansa and Arya's relationship is so much more important. Arya/Sansa >>>>>> Sansa/Sandor. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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Just now, redriver said:

No that makes you a mass murderer.Google that when you're researching "troll".

Wow! What have I ever done to you? If you'd looked a bit further, you'd seen, that I've already corrected myself on that numerous times. But apparently you were just waiting for an opportunity to attack me or just someone, I don't know.

I didn't use the word serial killer correctly, but it wasn't ill-intented! I made a mistake, ppl called me out, I corrected myself immediately afterwards, english isn't my first language, it's not that great. No reason to call me "a mass murderer"!

If you have a problem with my opinions, tell me directly, instead of hiding behind insults

 

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18 minutes ago, redriver said:

No that makes you a mass murderer.Google that when you're researching "troll".

She already corrected herself. I think you should probably Google troll yourself tho. 

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1 minute ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Wow! What have I ever done to you? If you'd looked a bit further, you'd seen, that I've already corrected myself on that numerous times. But apparently you were just waiting for an opportunity to attack me or just someone, I don't know.

I didn't use the word serial killer correctly, but it wasn't ill-intented! I made a mistake, ppl called me out, I corrected myself immediately afterwards, english isn't my first language, it's not that great. No reason to call me "a mass murderer"!

If you have a problem with my opinions, tell me directly, instead of hiding behind insults

 

This is another prime example of a troll. Don't let that person bother you. They have contributed nothing to the discussion other than inflammatory, uncalled for, remarks against other posters. 

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1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

This is another prime example of a troll. Don't let that person bother you. They have contributed nothing to the discussion other than inflammatory, uncalled for, remarks against other posters. 

Yes I've used my 

 

5 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Wow! What have I ever done to you? If you'd looked a bit further, you'd seen, that I've already corrected myself on that numerous times. But apparently you were just waiting for an opportunity to attack me or just someone, I don't know.

I didn't use the word serial killer correctly, but it wasn't ill-intented! I made a mistake, ppl called me out, I corrected myself immediately afterwards, english isn't my first language, it's not that great. No reason to call me "a mass murderer"!

If you have a problem with my opinions, tell me directly, instead of hiding behind insults

 

Ok.I can say sorry to you.Didn't see the later retraction.

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58 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

She is an unreliable narrator after all.

I don’t take GRRM’s comment to mean that she is unreliable as a narrator in many ways. GRRM specifically says “a touch.” It’s his little touch, that she’s unreliable when it comes to the Hound’s kiss. And of course, he’s not going to give anything away, but he’s said that it will mean something. So we can count on that.

I don’t think she is convincing herself of Sandor being a good guy. I don’t think she’s “convincing” herself at all. She didn’t require that. She’s taking him as he presents himself and that is a person who is helpful to her. She asks him about Joff, she looks to him for help. She prays for him. She wishes he was there. 

Trust certainly can be built between people who are not family. In fact, growth for all the Starks as characters is learning whom to trust in the world. They may even have to learn that family and those closely associated with their family (think Robb and the Karstarks) may not be trustworthy. Sansa has yet to reach her dark moments, her ‘all is lost’ moments in this story. I’m assuming those will come with Littlefinger and hopefully will be in TWOW. So we’ll see what her takeaway is on the whom to trust issue. But if the Hound showed up in her life, she would trust him, I guarantee it.

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17 hours ago, Karmarni said:

I don’t take GRRM’s comment to mean that she is unreliable as a narrator in many ways. GRRM specifically says “a touch.” It’s his little touch, that she’s unreliable when it comes to the Hound’s kiss. And of course, he’s not going to give anything away, but he’s said that it will mean something. So we can count on that.

IMO GRRM's comment about Sansa as an unreliable narrator is way overblown by some people. Her name was used as an example. In a first person POV literature, everyone is an unreliable narrator. What you retain, or feel or think is colored by so many things that reality can often times be something completely different from an outside perspective. That's why if you were to show an accident to 10 people, you would get 10 different accounts. Some details might match between several people but non of them will have an identical account.

17 hours ago, Karmarni said:

I don’t think she is convincing herself of Sandor being a good guy. I don’t think she’s “convincing” herself at all. She didn’t require that. She’s taking him as he presents himself and that is a person who is helpful to her. She asks him about Joff, she looks to him for help. She prays for him. She wishes he was there. 

The problem here is that she has to purposefully repress the ugly side of what Sandor did to her which sets a dangerous precedent. Sure Sandor is helpful but he is also majorly abusive in his dealings with her. He belittles her, thinks her stupid and he attacks her physically etc.. I don't want that blind spot of repression for Sansa since it's dangerous. Because then she runs the danger of normalizing this behavior just to stay sane and survive. She can absolutely see the positive things Sandor has done for her but she should not loose sight of the fact that he did some some ugly stuff to her as well. This should not become learned behavior because then it becomes normal and Sansa never gets away from abuse.

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29 minutes ago, Mystical said:

The problem here is that she has to purposefully repress the ugly side of what Sandor did to her which sets a dangerous precedent. Sure Sandor is helpful but he is also majorly abusive in his dealings with her. He belittles her, thinks her stupid and he attacks her physically etc.. I don't want that blind spot of repression for Sansa since it's dangerous. Because then she runs the danger of normalizing this behavior just to stay sane and survive. She can absolutely see the positive things Sandor has done for her but she should not loose sight of the fact that he did some some ugly stuff to her as well. This should not become learned behavior because then it becomes normal and Sansa never gets away from abuse.

And you don't think Sansa showing no fear of him, singing a song of the Mother and then tell him she thinks it's safer to remain in the red keep surrounded by enemies than fleeing with him through the Riverlands didn't send that message?

I'm pretty sure it did by the time he essentially failed with the tough as nails sister Arya, who doesn't mind getting dirty, sleeping outside and aids him with the Mountain's men, and he still gets mortally wounded if it weren't for the Elder Brother. Not to forget he also got caught by the BwB. If he didn't realize that Sansa was indeed right that she wouldn't have been safe with him during such a trip with the man he was at the time, I'm confident he came to realize it during his meditations as the gravedigger.

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30 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And you don't think Sansa showing no fear of him, singing a song of the Mother and then tell him she thinks it's safer to remain in the red keep surrounded by enemies than fleeing with him through the Riverlands didn't send that message?

I'm pretty sure it did by the time he essentially failed with the tough as nails sister Arya, who doesn't mind getting dirty, sleeping outside and aids him with the Mountain's men, and he still gets mortally wounded if it weren't for the Elder Brother. Not to forget he also got caught by the BwB. If he didn't realize that Sansa was indeed right that she wouldn't have been safe with him during such a trip with the man he was at the time, I'm confident he came to realize it during his meditations as the gravedigger.

That's not my point. If you paid attention to the poster I quoted, they made it seem as if Sansa only sees Sandor as a good guy she would immediately trust if she saw him again. Which she shouldn't, whether that's in general or in terms of herself. Because the only way that would happen is if she has suppressed all the ugly things he has done to her personally. And I would hope that she hadn't suppressed it all because it would be terrible learned behavior, aka 'he's good to me but he also abuses me but he did some good things for me so I trust him'.

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11 minutes ago, Mystical said:

That's not my point. If you paid attention to the poster I quoted, they made it seem as if Sansa only sees Sandor as a good guy she would immediately trust if she saw him again. Which she shouldn't, whether that's in general or in terms of herself. Because the only way that would happen is if she has suppressed all the ugly things he has done to her personally. And I would hope that she hadn't suppressed it all because it would be terrible learned behavior, aka 'he's good to me but he also abuses me but he did some good things for me so I trust him'.

I know it's not your point. My point is that yours is irrelevant. Sansa's idea of Sandor isn't completely isolated. She interacted with him before she created the Unkiss and she sent him kindly packing. There's no risk of abuse when he can come to the conclusion that she was correct in sending him packing and works on himself to earn her trust, to make himself someone reliable, and to leave the alcohol abuse. I don't expect Sansa will rely on him, until he has proven he can be reliable. And there's no risk of abuse from Sandor towards Sansa anyway, and Sansa doesn't ignore it when he says ugly things. She stands up for herself towards him.

Edited by sweetsunray

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Just because Sansa stood up for herself with Sandor doesn't change the fact that there was a huge imbalance between them, and it's reinforced in every interaction they had. He invades her personal space, pinches her chin, roughly grabs her by the arm multiple times despite her protests. On top of it he also belittles her character traits, hobbies and intelligence. After Cersei and Joffrey he's the one who plays the biggest role in tearing down Sansa's self-esteem. He is partly at fault for Sansa second guessing herself and calling herself dumb in ASOS and AFFC. Even if we put the Unkiss situation aside Sandor is still culpable in the abuse Sansa faces in King's Landing. Just because he's just a little bit better doesn't negate what he has done to her. 

Edited by Elegant Woes

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13 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And you don't think Sansa showing no fear of him, singing a song of the Mother and then tell him she thinks it's safer to remain in the red keep surrounded by enemies than fleeing with him through the Riverlands didn't send that message?

I really don't want to argue so intensely anymore! So please don't feel attacked!

But I just don't understand, how you can read this scene:

Then something stirred behind her, and a hand reached out of the dark and grabbed her wrist. Sansa opened her mouth to scream, but another hand clamped down over her face, smothering her. His fingers were rough and callused, and sticky with blood. “Little bird. I knew you’d come.” The voice was a drunken rasp. Outside, a swirling lance of jade light spit at the stars, filling the room with green glare. She saw him for a moment, all black and green, the blood on his face dark as tar, his eyes glowing like a dog’s in the sudden glare. Then the light faded and he was only a hulking darkness in a stained white cloak. “If you scream, I’ll kill you. Believe that.” He took his hand from her mouth. Her breath was coming ragged. The Hound had a flagon of wine on her bedside table. He took a long pull. “Don’t you want to ask who’s winning the battle, little bird?” “Who?” she said, too frightened to defy him. The Hound laughed. “I only know who’s lost. Me.” He is drunker than I’ve ever seen him. He was sleeping in my bed. What does he want here? “What have you lost?”

“All.” The burned half of his face was a mask of dried blood. “Bloody dwarf. Should have killed him. Years ago.” “He’s dead, they say.” “Dead? No. Bugger that. I don’t want him dead.” He cast the empty flagon aside. “I want him burned. If the gods are good, they’ll burn him, but I won’t be here to see. I’m going.” “Going?” She tried to wriggle free, but his grasp was iron. “The little bird repeats whatever she hears. Going, yes.” “Where will you go?” “Away from here. Away from the fires. Go out the Iron Gate, I suppose. North somewhere, anywhere.” “You won’t get out,” Sansa said. “The queen’s closed up Maegor’s, and the city gates are shut as well.” “Not to me. I have the white cloak. And I have this.” he patted the pommel of his sword. “The man who tries to stop me is a dead man. Unless he’s on fire.” He laughed bitterly. “Why did you come here?” “You promised me a song, little bird. Have you forgotten?” She didn’t know what he meant. She couldn’t sing for him now, here, with the sky aswirl with fire and men dying in their hundreds and their thousands. “I can’t,” she said. “Let me go, you’re scaring me.” “Everything scares you. Look at me. Look at me.” The blood masked the worst of his scars, but his eyes were white and wide and terrifying. The burned corner of his mouth twitched and twitched again. Sansa could smell him; a stink of sweat and sour wine and stale vomit, and over it all the reek of blood, blood, blood. “I could keep you safe,” he rasped. “They’re all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I’d kill them.” He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. “Still can’t bear to look, can you?” she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. “I’ll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said.” His dagger was out, poised at her throat. “Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life.” Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind. Please don’t kill me, she wanted to scream, please don’t. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears.

Gentle Mother, font of mercy, save our sons from war, we pray, stay the swords and stay the arrows, let them know a better day. Gentle Mother, strength of women, help our daughters through this fray, soothe the wrath and tame the fury, teach us all a kinder way.

She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking. Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. “Little bird,” he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps. When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

A Clash of Kings

And take away from it, "Sansa showing no fear of him" or that she really made any conscious decision at all here not to go with him, let alone one, that was informed by her estimating the chances of them escaping.

I actually think she would have gone with him at this point in time, if he had just behaved like a normal person and outright offered it to her:" I'm going and I can bring you to WF, if you want to." Because just a few hours earlier this were her thoughts:

"I would be gladder if it were the Hound, Sansa thought. Harsh as he was, she did not believe Sandor Clegane would let any harm come to her."

A Clash of Kings

But he doesn't even outright say what he wants and she is so afraid of what he is going to do and everything is happening so quickly, that Sansa doesn't even have time to really process and consider his non offer.

When Sansa later remembers that night she changes it a into "she refused him", but when you look at the actual scene, she really doesn't even have time to refuse him.

And she is literately afraid he is going to kill her. This time it is not a matter of interpretation. She is literally begging for her life in her thoughts, so how can that be "showing no fear"?

Edit: Or did you mean by "showing no fear of him" that in your opinion she doesn't show any signs of fear of him after him leaving KL?If so i misunderstood!

Edited by Nagini's Neville

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2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Edit: Or did you mean by "showing no fear of him" that in your opinion she doesn't show any signs of fear of him after him leaving KL?If so i misunderstood!

Sansa's feelings and actions in that moment are disguised and interpreted as something else by Sandor.

Her asking him questions, having a conversation, arguing with him, demanding to be let go, even if she says "he's scaring her", those actions are signs of someone who's not afraid of him to speak up. He mentions a song title, but she doesn't give him that song. She sings a different song.

That Sandor is misinterpreting he body language is made clear when she surrenders and closes her eyes. He takes it as abhorrence. Which she then disproves by in the end not just looking at his face but cupping his face.

You are correct that she never actively said "I'm not going with you", but both will end up remembering that way. We know Sansa remembers it that way. You have a point that Sandor never asks her. He wants to, but he doesn't. He's scared of her rejecting him, so he asks it without asking: telling her he's going and that he could keep her safe. He's not asking her the correct way, but in his mind that's what he's doing: asking. And by asking her without ever actually framing it as a question, he avoids the verbal "no". The absence of "take me with you!" from Sansa is "the rejection". We can see how his mind bends to being rejected, because when she closes her eyes, he reads that as her still not bearing to look at him. He leaves her, because he's totally convinced she chooses not to go with him.

Initially he ends up drinking his sorrows away (because the BwB came upon him that way), then he discovers Arya. And while self-proclaimed goal is to use Arya as a bargaining chip to seek a position in Robb's army, it ends up being surviving and saving a Stark daughter not to prove himself to Robb, but to himself and ultimately Sansa. Since he fails at surviving himself, to his mind Sansa was correct in "rejecting" his offer. He couldn't have kept her safe as he claimed, and if she was right not to jump at the chance to flee with him, and he had wanted to spare her a marriage to the Imp, we get his conclusion that he should have fucked her bloody and rip her heart out.

You are correct that Sansa never realized that he was asking her to flee with him at the time, because he never popped the question. But I don't think you are correct that Sansa would have said, "Yes," had he asked. Yes, she wishes for someone like Sandor to rescue her, rather than Ser Dontos, but the moment it comes down to practically discussing "how will you escape?", she puts a lot of question marks behind it. By then she also concluded that it's a ship she requires. A flight overland is just completely out of the question for her. And ultimately she does not trust Sandor to be able to pull it off, with or without her, at the time. Whether or not she puts that opinion into conscious thought is less relevant, than her automatic response of questioning his plans. 

Sansa's changes of the narrative reflect not just her feelings towards Sandor, but also her beliefs of both their abilities. Ultimately, when "push comes to shove" (literally), she questions his ability to flee KL and survive an overland journey. As time goes by, she comprehends the synopsis of the event - he was offering to rescue her, and when he mentioned it, she didn't grasp for the opportunity, so just like Sandor she summarizes it as her rejecting him, and her regretting it. This change of the narrative and reflection upon it reveals that she came to understand Sandor's purpose in her room that night, that despite his absence she has grown to believe he could have pulled it off (after all, he did manage to flee KL successfully), as well as believes she was wrong to not jump at the chance. Much much later, she alters the narrative again - he abandoned her. So, because she altered her feelings to "I wished I had gone with him", she has come to believe that "she would have gone with him IF he only had asked." And both these changes of narrative reflect an understanding of what was really happening: he offered to rescue her, without actually asking her, and therefore never truly given her the chance to say yes. Those alteration to the narrative therefore also include a process within Sansa on how she expects to be treated, asked, offered,

 

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26 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Sansa's feelings and actions in that moment are disguised and interpreted as something else by Sandor.

Her asking him questions, having a conversation, arguing with him, demanding to be let go, even if she says "he's scaring her", those actions are signs of someone who's not afraid of him to speak up. He mentions a song title, but she doesn't give him that song. She sings a different song.

That Sandor is misinterpreting he body language is made clear when she surrenders and closes her eyes. He takes it as abhorrence. Which she then disproves by in the end not just looking at his face but cupping his face.

You are correct that she never actively said "I'm not going with you", but both will end up remembering that way. We know Sansa remembers it that way. You have a point that Sandor never asks her. He wants to, but he doesn't. He's scared of her rejecting him, so he asks it without asking: telling her he's going and that he could keep her safe. He's not asking her the correct way, but in his mind that's what he's doing: asking. And by asking her without ever actually framing it as a question, he avoids the verbal "no". The absence of "take me with you!" from Sansa is "the rejection". We can see how his mind bends to being rejected, because when she closes her eyes, he reads that as her still not bearing to look at him. He leaves her, because he's totally convinced she chooses not to go with him.

Initially he ends up drinking his sorrows away (because the BwB came upon him that way), then he discovers Arya. And while self-proclaimed goal is to use Arya as a bargaining chip to seek a position in Robb's army, it ends up being surviving and saving a Stark daughter not to prove himself to Robb, but to himself and ultimately Sansa. Since he fails at surviving himself, to his mind Sansa was correct in "rejecting" his offer. He couldn't have kept her safe as he claimed, and if she was right not to jump at the chance to flee with him, and he had wanted to spare her a marriage to the Imp, we get his conclusion that he should have fucked her bloody and rip her heart out.

You are correct that Sansa never realized that he was asking her to flee with him at the time, because he never popped the question. But I don't think you are correct that Sansa would have said, "Yes," had he asked. Yes, she wishes for someone like Sandor to rescue her, rather than Ser Dontos, but the moment it comes down to practically discussing "how will you escape?", she puts a lot of question marks behind it. By then she also concluded that it's a ship she requires. A flight overland is just completely out of the question for her. And ultimately she does not trust Sandor to be able to pull it off, with or without her, at the time. Whether or not she puts that opinion into conscious thought is less relevant, than her automatic response of questioning his plans. 

Sansa's changes of the narrative reflect not just her feelings towards Sandor, but also her beliefs of both their abilities. Ultimately, when "push comes to shove" (literally), she questions his ability to flee KL and survive an overland journey. As time goes by, she comprehends the synopsis of the event - he was offering to rescue her, and when he mentioned it, she didn't grasp for the opportunity, so just like Sandor she summarizes it as her rejecting him, and her regretting it. This change of the narrative and reflection upon it reveals that she came to understand Sandor's purpose in her room that night, that despite his absence she has grown to believe he could have pulled it off (after all, he did manage to flee KL successfully), as well as believes she was wrong to not jump at the chance. Much much later, she alters the narrative again - he abandoned her. So, because she altered her feelings to "I wished I had gone with him", she has come to believe that "she would have gone with him IF he only had asked." And both these changes of narrative reflect an understanding of what was really happening: he offered to rescue her, without actually asking her, and therefore never truly given her the chance to say yes. Those alteration to the narrative therefore also include a process within Sansa on how she expects to be treated, asked, offered,

 

I agree with some elements you mentioned here on others I have a bit of a different interpretation, but I still don't know what you mean with "Sansa showing no fear of him"

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1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I agree with some elements you mentioned here on others I have a bit of a different interpretation, but I still don't know what you mean with "Sansa showing no fear of him"

Behavior and actions that fit the signs of fear. We as readers know what's happening in Sansa's head. We know she feels fear. But Sandor does not know what she thinks or feels. Sansa verbally expresses "you're scaring me", but all of her other behavior can be misinterpreted by Sandor as having confidence. Even her "let me go" can be interpreted as belieing her attestation that she's scared. She says it as a command.

I'm not saying that Sansa isn't terrified in that moment, or that she's giving "mixed signals" to us, or is even responsible if she were. I'm saying that Sandor does see opposing and mixed signals. It doesn't make his assessment correct, but his responses and replies suggest to me that he believes her to be confident when confronted by him. In short, to him, she "shows no fear of him".

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