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Alyn Oakenfist

Does Targaryen blood matter anymore?

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So hear me out. It's clear that Valyrian blood does have magical properties and that it the main reason for the incest. But seeing as the Targs had a very long period of not practicing incest (from  Viserys II until Aegon V with the exception of Aegon IV) didn't the massively dilute their blood. I mean at this point I don't see how they are different from Velaryons. Now you might say, but what about Dany's dragons? Don't they prove that the blood of Valyria still matters. I would say no. The reason Dany's dragons happened is the whole blood magic madness with Mirri. So in conclusion I think Targ blood doesn't matter anymore seeing as Aegon the Conqueror's blood is so diluted (it might still matter for Blackfyre Faegon seeing as the Blackfyre's were big into incest and are descendant from the Targs since before the out-breeding).

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It is not just Dany who indicates that the blood of the dragon does still run pretty strong in the Targaryens, it is also the affinity Dany's dragons have for Brown Ben Plumm - whose Targaryen blood is very diluted even if his (great-)great-grandfather Lord Viserys Plumm was actually the son of Aegon IV and Elaena and not only Elaena's son by Ossifer Plumm.

My guess would also be that 'purity of blood' isn't really the issue with the dragon thing - rather the fact that a limited gene pool ensures 'the dragonriding talent' is not bred out of the bloodline. It is not that 'lesser blood' would actually 'pollute' the blood of the dragon, but rather that too many ancestors who don't have the blood of the dragon will eventually create children who will no longer be capable to become dragonriders - or who will face more and more troubles when trying to claim a dragon.

The whole thing is a magical issue that is expressed as an aristocratic/elitist concept. But the reasoning of the Valyrians would have been to ensure that they keep their magical powers - who were the basis for the political power. In the more primitive society of Westeros that then devolved to the 'royal blood is magical' nonsense which would have been prevalent there long before the Targaryens came.

But I'd agree with you that the Velaryons wouldn't be that far behind the Targaryens insofar as their degree of dragonlord is concerned - unless, of course, the modern branch of House Velaryon is not descended from Alyn Velaryon and Baela Targaryen.

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Daenerys is the start of the new Targaryen bloodline.  She actually has less purity than her ancestors but because of the magic on that faithful day on the Dothraki Sea and her specialness, yes, the Targaryen blood does matter.  The new Targaryen blood.  Whatever properties it may carry.

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18 hours ago, The Way of the Dragon said:

Daenerys is the start of the new Targaryen bloodline.  She actually has less purity than her ancestors but because of the magic on that faithful day on the Dothraki Sea and her specialness, yes, the Targaryen blood does matter.  The new Targaryen blood.  Whatever properties it may carry.

Now here's a question, did the Blood of Valyria became magical just because of dragons, or did the Valyrians do some voodoo shit so that their blood will have magical properties?

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7 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Doesn't Dany's line also have First Men blood in it, specifically warg blood? Wonder if that got activated too on that fateful comet day.

Dany, Rhaegar and Viserys are all a full half Blackwood since their line has been inbred since the Egg and his Blackwood wife. Glad you brought it up. Seems like something that'll have a big impact on the story but it doesn't register with the fandom much. Compare to Bloodraven...

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_V_Targaryen

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers

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I think Selmy being haunted by Dany's eyes suggests she is Ashara's daughter. 

Considering the Targs seemed to be unable to keep their dragons alive or resurrect them.
The Dayne blood may have had the missing ingredients. 

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11 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

I think Selmy being haunted by Dany's eyes suggests she is Ashara's daughter. 

Considering the Targs seemed to be unable to keep their dragons alive or resurrect them.
The Dayne blood may have had the missing ingredients. 

Ooooh, the Dayne's displaying valyrian-exclusive purple eyes-mystery is probably what I yearn most for getting an answer to. Even if its just that they intermarried with Targs or Valyrians way back when.

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Ooooh, the Dayne's displaying valyrian-exclusive purple eyes-mystery is probably what I yearn most for getting an answer to. Even if its just that they intermarried with Targs or Valyrians way back when.

Yea, my suspicion would be that the Daynes ruled the GEotD and that Valryians are descended from them or a related GEotD family. 

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15 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

Yea, my suspicion would be that the Daynes ruled the GEotD and that Valryians are descended from them or a related GEotD family. 

"GEotD"? 

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On 11/14/2019 at 12:15 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So hear me out. It's clear that Valyrian blood does have magical properties and that it the main reason for the incest. But seeing as the Targs had a very long period of not practicing incest (from  Viserys II until Aegon V with the exception of Aegon IV) didn't the massively dilute their blood. I mean at this point I don't see how they are different from Velaryons. Now you might say, but what about Dany's dragons? Don't they prove that the blood of Valyria still matters. I would say no. The reason Dany's dragons happened is the whole blood magic madness with Mirri. So in conclusion I think Targ blood doesn't matter anymore seeing as Aegon the Conqueror's blood is so diluted (it might still matter for Blackfyre Faegon seeing as the Blackfyre's were big into incest and are descendant from the Targs since before the out-breeding).

Diluted it might be but the presence of the dragon gene is still there.  This gene can come up and express itself randomly.  The Targaryen blood alone making magic happen has never been proven.  It is an in-the-world theory from the red religion.  No Targaryen blood was shed during the miracle that hatched the dragon eggs.  The king's blood came from Drogo, who was not a Targaryen.  It is not being Targaryen that can create the magic but the blood of a king.  Drogo was undefeated and a man full of life.  His accomplishments and manliness exceeded that of Rhaegar.  If a man alive was a fitting offering to birth dragons it was Drogo.  Any Joe burning a Dothraki khal is not going to hatch dragon eggs though.  It was the combination of Daenerys Targaryen calling forth the miracle and the blood of the khal that produced the miracle.  In other words, Azor Ahai was needed to call for the miracle and she did. 

There were a lot of Targaryen blood at Summerhall and yet not a single dragon hatched.  Because Aegon V was an Any Joe.  Egg was simply a regular guy with a crown on his head.  He is not Azor Ahai.  Dany is .  And none of those Targaryens at Summerhall walked out of the fire alive!  They burned like any other people might. 

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The magic is too much power in the hands of unstable people, who don't really learn from history, and who lust for power. So it may matter for Targaryens themselves to be seen as exceptional and powerful and pure, but do I care if their blood is diluted?

No. In fact--it should be.

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9 hours ago, Sigella said:

"GEotD"? 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Empire_of_the_Dawn

5 hours ago, Big P said:

No Targaryen blood was shed during the miracle that hatched the dragon eggs.

The deaths of Drogo, Viserys, Rhaego and MMD (3 Heads and Tail) may have all been required for the final hatching to succeed. 

So Targ blood seems to make up only about 1/4th of the ritual sacrifices. If one can look at it like that. 

It may also not be totally correct to think of the ritual as a miracle. As it may have been a common practice in Valyria, until the knowledge was lost in the Doom. 

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On 11/16/2019 at 9:54 AM, Narsil4 said:

I think Selmy being haunted by Dany's eyes suggests she is Ashara's daughter. 

Considering the Targs seemed to be unable to keep their dragons alive or resurrect them.
The Dayne blood may have had the missing ingredients. 

I think most people make the wrong connection from this quote.

At one point Jorah Mormont tells Dany that she looks like his wife Lynesse. So the connection is that Dany reminds both Barry and Jorah of their unrequited great loves. In the latter's case she has even replaced her. 

Also I think it's pretty much a sure bet by now that a Targaryen married into the Daynes the recent past and probably the Hightowers.

I don't think the issue is that the blood is diluted. I think the issue is that it is spread too much. Between the marriages and Aegon IV there should be hundreds of potential dragon riders. And that would have been the point of the incest: to keep dragon riding in the family. 

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7 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

 

Also I think it's pretty much a sure bet by now that a Targaryen married into the Daynes the recent past and probably the Hightowers

I think the idea that the notable looks of Valerians means that anyone with similar looks must have some relationship with them is faulty. The same appearance is common in Lys - an area with a huge population and lots of trading connections. It seems more likely that there was a large ethnic group with the white hair/ purple eyes appearance - but that this was very unusual in Westeros so what would be commonplace in other areas of Planetos was simply very noticeable in the seven kingdoms.

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On 11/16/2019 at 2:00 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Now here's a question, did the Blood of Valyria became magical just because of dragons, or did the Valyrians do some voodoo shit so that their blood will have magical properties?

Tough to say.  They practiced magic and studied it.  But knowledge does not give the body special properties.  

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13 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

At one point Jorah Mormont tells Dany that she looks like his wife Lynesse.

That may be intended to indicate a connection between Hightower and Dayne blood. 

Their myth of following a falling star to the mouth of a river, may apply to the blackstone of Battle Isle rather than the river they eventually settled upon. 

17 minutes ago, The Way of the Dragon said:

Tough to say.  They practiced magic and studied it.  But knowledge does not give the body special properties.  

Things like the Valyrian use of the Sphinx seem to suggest they may have been playing with creating magical hybrids. So there seems to be the possibility that their coloring actually comes from the lemurs. 

Though it may hold the more inherent implication, of their magic being similar to weirwoods. Perhaps even changing what might be considered their natural appearances to be closer to the sources of their power. 

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Just now, Narsil4 said:

That may be intended to indicate a connection between Hightower and Dayne blood. 

Their myth of following a falling star to the mouth of a river, may apply to the blackstone of Battle Isle rather than the river they eventually settled upon. 

Things like the Valyrian use of the Sphinx seem to suggest they may have been playing with creating magical hybrids. So there seems to be the possibility that their coloring actually comes from the lemurs. 

Though it may hold the more inherent implication, of their magic being similar to weirwoods. Perhaps even changing what might be considered their natural appearances to be closer to the sources of their power. 

I don't know if their science was advanced enough to practice Eugenics but deliberate breeding was practiced to protect and preserve the bond with the dragons.  

Weirwood magic and the first men of the north may have practiced closed breeding in the past.  It may even be by accident because of the isolation in the north.  The long night killed off most of the people and only a few were left.  The gene pool was severely reduced.

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